Cryto! 30 January 2014

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03:16:33 <dorotea> joepie91:) good morning!
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03:44:20 <gesichtskirmes> morning
03:51:24 <dorotea> NP: [M.I.A. - Bring The Noize] [Matangi] [970kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.6.0
03:51:28 <dorotea> Morning!
03:53:05 <dorotea> let's try
03:53:15 <dorotea> awh
03:53:28 <dorotea> server doesn't let me /nick to foreign characters
04:02:13 <gesichtskirmes> awwh
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04:56:05 <dorotea> NP: [Jay-Z - Lucifer] [The Black Album] [936kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.6.0
04:56:23 <dorotea> I'm from the murder capitol, where we murder for capital
05:24:52 <gesichtskirmes> Huecco - Dame Vida \o/
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06:33:05 <monod> what was cool about yesterday? :)
06:34:36 <MK_FG> It was -36C cool ;)
06:35:24 <monod> hahahahaha
06:35:34 <monod> holy gods...
06:35:45 <monod> that's really cold..
06:36:29 <MK_FG> Up north in the same region, they had -54C (iirc), so I'm not complaining ;)
06:36:39 <monod> :D
06:36:47 <monod> :mother of god:
06:37:31 * monod is about to catch the bus that will make him catch the train
06:38:04 <monod> and btw, it still isn't that exciting day I though of
06:38:11 <monod> anxiety.
06:39:25 <monod> ok, gotta go!
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08:44:01 <joepie91> morning dorotea
08:44:16 <joepie91> and others :P
08:46:08 <Xeross> Heya
08:46:26 <jwa> mood gorning
08:47:58 <joepie91> morning Xeross!
08:48:01 <joepie91> been a while! :P
08:48:08 <Xeross> Yup
08:48:24 <Xeross> I finally could be arsed enough to set up the ZNC and client again
08:48:35 <joepie91> hehe
08:50:30 <jwa> so hey
08:50:43 <jwa> if someone can get @N, how do I get @jwa?
08:50:50 <Xeross> And looking at setting up Deis or some other self-hosted Heroku alternative
08:50:59 <Xeross> Because manually spinning up Docker instances is getting lame
08:51:36 <jwa> i've been meaning to look into Deis
08:52:34 <Xeross> Deis, Dokku and Flynn
08:52:37 <Xeross> All very interesting
08:52:52 <Xeross> But most of them use Ubuntu or whatever, and I'm like, no :V
08:53:01 <Xeross> At least I have a Hetzner EX40 to play with
08:54:14 <jwa> isn't Dokku with Docker?
08:54:44 <Xeross> jwa: Correct but their bootstrap, etc. Prefers/wants Ubuntu, shouldn't be that hard to use something else though
08:55:03 <Xeross> Just spun up a VM on my laptop with a bare Arch image let's see if it wants to eat Deis
08:55:15 <jwa> yay arch
08:55:33 <jwa> TIL hetzners dedis have become very cheap
08:55:43 <joepie91> huh? they've always been very cheap
08:55:44 <joepie91> :P
08:55:49 <jwa> damn
08:55:55 <jwa> compare that to my pesky linode
08:56:00 <joepie91> jwa: there's a reason Hetzner dedis are cheap
08:56:09 <jwa> overselling?
08:56:18 <joepie91> ... how would you oversell dedicated servers ._.
08:56:29 <jwa> that's why i'm asking lol :P
08:56:43 <joepie91> they have physically separate resources lol
08:56:50 <jwa> I know
08:56:54 <jwa> so why are they cheap?
08:56:56 <joepie91> thus you can't oversll
08:57:05 <joepie91> jwa: the reason is that it's highly automated and corner cutter
08:57:08 <joepie91> their network is good
08:57:09 <joepie91> but
08:57:12 <joepie91> support is "eh"
08:57:18 <joepie91> you get DDoS, you're basically out
08:57:28 <joepie91> etc
08:57:34 <jwa> out as in out of luck or out of contract?
08:57:40 <joepie91> it's a bit like OVH, except without the DDoS mitigation
08:57:48 <joepie91> jwa: as in "get the fuck out, we don't want to host you"
08:57:57 <jwa>
08:57:59 <joepie91> they really do NOT like DDoS
08:58:05 <jwa> like you can predict that
08:58:08 <Xeross> And they're using consumer hardware
08:58:13 <joepie91> jwa: exactly
08:58:17 <jwa> except ofc if you plan to do some anon,warez,etc stuff
08:58:22 <joepie91> Xeross: eh, not necessarily
08:58:23 <jwa> then you obviously are playing with fire
08:58:28 <Xeross> joepie91: ex40 has an intel i7
08:58:36 <joepie91> Xeross: have a look at their serverbidding
08:58:44 <Xeross> My websites are all behind Cloudflare so that's at least some form of protection
08:58:46 <joepie91> jwa: Hetzner used to be a common choice for VPS hosts
08:58:50 <joepie91> then Hetzner got tired of the DDoS
08:58:55 <joepie91> and made IPs ridiculously expensive
08:58:57 <joepie91> and hard to get
08:59:11 <Xeross> "I need another IP because separating stuffs" Ok have an IP
08:59:16 <Xeross> that's how it went
08:59:16 <joepie91> one of the IRC leafs here is at hetzner through a VPS host
08:59:24 <joepie91> VPS host had to do quite some talking to get my IP un-nulled
08:59:30 <joepie91> Hetzner wanted to perma-null it (wtf?)
08:59:56 <joepie91> Xeross: you can get away with like 2-3 extra IPs, then they just about demand a blood sample for you to get any more
08:59:57 <joepie91> lol
08:59:57 <jwa> none of their vps plans offers phone support ha
09:00:08 <joepie91> jwa: don't bother with phone support
09:00:10 <joepie91> in general
09:00:32 <joepie91> A. you're going to pay quite a bit extra (for phone support you'll probably never use) because manning a callcenter is expensive
09:00:40 <joepie91> B. phone support doesn't really... work for stuff like servers
09:00:46 <joepie91> (tickets are much more convenient for both sides)
09:01:04 <joepie91> C. did I mention having to sit waiting to pass a phone queue?
09:01:34 <joepie91> but yeah, basically, just look for a host that has good ticket response times
09:01:50 <joepie91> reviews will typically tell you this, and some hosts even publish a rolling average of ticket resolution time on their site :P
09:01:58 <jwa> metanet has insane response times, but so are their prices
09:02:05 <joepie91> lol
09:02:15 <joepie91> jwa: I had a VPS at Cinfu a long time ago
09:02:16 <jwa> but i've paid until 2015 for my linode so...
09:02:16 <joepie91> as IRC hub
09:02:20 <Xeross> I'll break even in a while on Hetzner, as I'm hosting clients for 10EUR a month, up to 3 soon
09:02:27 <joepie91> ... their ticket response times were between 3 and 5 minutes
09:02:32 <joepie91> I was amazed, because the site looks like a ghost town
09:02:41 <jwa> hah. metanet beats that
09:02:42 <joepie91> jwa: paying ahead for hosting is usually not a good idea...
09:02:51 <jwa> but but you save 15%!
09:02:54 <joepie91> hosting is a bit of a wild west
09:02:59 <jwa> sounded like a good idea at the time
09:03:01 <joepie91> jwa: yeah, try to think about WHY you're saving 15%
09:03:02 <jwa> indeed it is
09:03:11 <joepie91> they wouldn't be offering you that discount if there weren't something in it for them
09:03:19 <jwa> dunno, prices for vServers are usually mostly out of thin air anyway
09:03:35 * jwa should host small websites on his server, too
09:03:57 <jwa> what's in for them is me staying with them for some time
09:04:41 <Xeross> Ugh dokku, please don't wget a bunch of .deb files when I run make install
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09:05:17 <Xeross> Ugh this Makefile really is just a bunch of Ubuntu-specific commands >:(
09:05:40 <jwa> that was to be expected
09:05:47 <Xeross> I sure hope Flynn is a bit easier to get running
09:06:02 <joepie91> stupid fucking lag
09:06:09 <joepie91> <jwa>dunno, prices for vServers are usually mostly out of thin air anyway
09:06:10 <joepie91> wat
09:06:16 <joepie91> <jwa>what's in for them is me staying with them for some time
09:06:18 <joepie91> exactly
09:06:20 <joepie91> and now you can't switch
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09:06:26 <joepie91> because "I already paid for my Linode until 2015"
09:06:28 <jwa> sure can
09:06:36 <joepie91> not without losing money
09:06:36 <jwa> yeah so i'll have a backup running
09:06:37 <Xeross> jwa: lost money though
09:06:38 <joepie91> into a vouid
09:06:39 <joepie91> void *
09:06:48 <jwa> still can use it for other stuff
09:07:07 <Xeross> I had a Linode I decommissioned that still had a month left
09:07:15 <joepie91> jwa: which means you can't really switch
09:07:16 <Xeross> Just ran an I2P node on it with high b/w limits
09:07:16 <jwa> our new corp website is on openshift for now. maybe we'll switch to hetzner that really does look nice
09:07:17 <joepie91> you can only add
09:07:18 <joepie91> :P
09:07:34 <Xeross> At least it's not TransIP :/
09:07:48 <joepie91> Xeross: used a TransIP VPS recently for an archiveteam project
09:07:49 <jwa> right
09:07:52 <joepie91> was quite impressed with disk I/O actually
09:08:06 <jwa> I still have $50 credit on DO
09:08:17 <joepie91> were absolutely _hammering_ the disk with some MySQL magicks for a few days
09:08:19 <Xeross> jwa: you got the $60 coupon thing?
09:08:43 <Xeross> joepie91: impressive, considering my 4GB one had 100% iowait
09:08:59 <joepie91> Xeross: hehe, perhaps that was my fault :3
09:09:02 <joepie91> seriously though
09:09:04 <joepie91> submitted a ticket?
09:09:29 <joepie91> afaik our VPS was migrated to a node with better I/O when we ran up against limitations (and at that point it was already having pretty impressive disk I/O)
09:09:33 <joepie91> after sending in a ticket
09:09:35 <joepie91> or something like that
09:09:44 <joepie91> somebody else managed the account, so I'm unclear on the specifics
09:09:52 <jwa> Xeross: yes
09:10:07 <joepie91> which $60 coupon? :P
09:11:01 <jwa> thanksgiving coupon, $50
09:11:12 <jwa> just added my expired credit card
09:11:52 <jwa> that is insane
09:12:17 <Xeross> joepie91: possibly, but I tried another 1GB VPS, same issues
09:12:22 <Xeross> Unresponsive, hard resets, etc.
09:12:30 <Xeross> So Hetzner/dedicated ended up being better
09:13:31 <Xeross>
09:13:43 <Xeross> That's like cheaper than Hetzner :/
09:13:55 <Xeross> 48GB ram, 4TB disk, intel i7 750
09:14:02 <Xeross> 950*
09:14:09 <Xeross> 47EUR/month
09:14:13 <Xeross> is that incl vat
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09:24:57 <Xeross> Why is OwnCloud such a horrible broken mess
09:25:00 <Xeross> yuck
09:25:02 <joepie91> jwa: I have a 5 euro/month kimsufi
09:25:17 <jwa> Xeross: because php
09:25:21 <joepie91> lol
09:25:56 <Xeross> monod: hmm?
09:26:19 <monod> yeah.
09:26:30 <Xeross> monod: Well I was assuming it does
09:27:10 <Xeross> Haha ok
09:27:24 <jwa> srs
09:27:27 <jwa> where are you from monod?
09:27:37 <monod> It!
09:27:58 <Xeross> jwa: PHP is improving, and I hope they throw out all the legacy cruft in 6.0 and create consistent interfaces. Considering Facebook has now also re-implemented most if not everything of PHP in HHVM and that the ecosystem is getting better. Can't really blame PHP
09:28:01 <Xeross> Just poor coders
09:28:06 <monod> sorry, don't know if you got it, Italy
09:28:15 <monod> I'm bad at English, often...
09:28:21 <Xeross> I mean, the web interface is buggy, the file synchronisation reports incorrect or no Content-Length which breaks it, among other things
09:29:36 <monod> gonna go! see the link! bye!
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09:31:03 <Xeross> Aaand splendid Facebook's XMPP doesn't wanna work in Pidgin anymore
09:31:08 <Xeross> Technology Y U break
09:39:11 <jwa> because skype
09:40:51 <Xeross> Talking about technologies that are crap but the majority of the people are on
09:41:53 <Xeross> Only person I remember in here is joepie himself >.<
09:54:01 <jwa> ugh, i feel sick
09:54:39 <jwa> might as well be butterflies in my stomach not sure
09:56:33 <Xeross> Well shouldn't've eaten those butterflies then
09:59:00 <jwa> yeah, damn pesky flutterbies
10:17:09 <joepie91> Xeross: Facebook XMPP has never worked as it should
10:17:22 <joepie91> XMPP is messy, but it isn't hard to do; I have no idea how they manage to keep breaking it
10:17:54 <joepie91> oh
10:17:56 <joepie91> and I apparently forgot this
10:17:58 <joepie91> .welcome Xeross
10:17:59 <joepie91> lol
10:17:59 <botpie91> Xeross: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
10:18:20 <joepie91> also, Xeross, PHP is still awful
10:18:22 <joepie91> just less awful
10:20:40 <Xeross> I'd rather have something that handles functional programming and is statically typed
10:20:49 <Xeross> Unfortunately haskell is unreadable
10:20:50 <jwa> try Haskell then
10:20:53 <jwa> lol
10:21:00 <jwa> if you're writing unreadable haskell, yes
10:21:29 * jwa needs a massage
10:21:46 <Xeross> jwa: Haskell reads well... if you're good at algebra/math
10:21:54 <Xeross> Ah well, guess I'll just wait and see
10:21:59 <jwa> i'm not and i'm fine with haskell
10:22:04 <Xeross> lisp dialects are nice but most are untyped
10:22:10 <Xeross> I'm just lazy
10:22:16 <jwa> so is haskell
10:22:20 <jwa> you're a perfect match!
10:23:30 <Xeross> Hahaha
10:23:46 <Xeross> And considering I'm a furry I also have TCO, just like Haskell :D
10:24:13 <jwa> total cost of ownership?
10:25:17 <Xeross> Tail-call optimisation
10:25:34 <jwa> oh that pun
10:28:57 <Xeross> yup
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11:02:37 <jwa> righty-o. im off for school have a good one
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11:43:44 <DrWhat> JOEPIE91
11:43:46 <DrWhat> I LOVE YOU
11:43:48 <DrWhat> i think
11:43:49 <DrWhat> :)
11:44:39 <joepie91> ohai DrWhat :P
11:46:25 <DrWhat> heheheh
11:46:28 <DrWhat> he spoke me
11:46:34 * DrWhat blushes
11:46:56 <Xeross> Hey a somewhat familiar name
11:47:07 <DrWhat> Uhh
11:47:13 <DrWhat> I dont know who your talking about :S
11:47:18 <DrWhat> I dont know anyone
11:47:20 <DrWhat> you dont know me
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11:47:41 <DrWhat> :P
11:47:48 <DrWhat> !loggy, pointer
11:47:54 <DrWhat> .logger, pointer?
11:47:55 <joepie91> without the !
11:47:58 <DrWhat> logger, pointer?
11:48:03 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
11:48:03 <loggy>
11:48:07 <joepie91> loggy
11:48:08 <DrWhat> I always get that wrong
11:48:08 <joepie91> not logger
11:48:08 <joepie91> :P
11:48:16 <joepie91> DrWhat: just ask loggy like it's a question
11:48:22 <joepie91> ratther than a command
11:48:30 <joepie91> you can also do
11:48:32 <joepie91> loggy, pointer
11:48:32 <loggy>
11:48:43 <joepie91> but the question mark makes it easier to remember as "not a command"
11:48:50 <DrWhat> joepie91 Havew you seen me rewriting evomap
11:49:04 <joepie91> I have not, but right now I don't really have time to look at it :/
11:49:05 <joepie91> busy with work stuff
11:49:14 <DrWhat>
11:49:46 <DrWhat> echo json_encode($result->read('everything WHERE servers_id = '.$SID, array('servers_id', 'x', 'y', 'city_name', 'lord_name', 'alliance', 'status', 'flag', 'honor', 'prestige'), $request))
11:49:50 <DrWhat> That line
11:49:53 <DrWhat> I am not proud of
11:50:13 <DrWhat> becuase im passing a user variable directly and i cant find thefunction to apply a where clause
11:53:07 <Xeross> apply a where clause?
12:23:42 <DrWhat> Am i still connected
12:24:21 <Xeross> Yup
12:25:20 <joepie91> yes
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13:33:03 <joepie91>
13:33:07 <monod> idling for perfect studying!
13:33:09 <monod> oh, btw joepie
13:33:33 <monod> oh nevermind, now I recall, it was something trivial :D
13:36:28 <monod> joepie91, only until cryptography's math will be broken (is it going to happen any soon?)
13:36:31 <MK_FG> joepie91, Did you happen to exchange your btcs for local currency at any point?
13:37:31 <MK_FG> There was notorious thread on SA about how insanely hard it is in Canada, so I wonder if it's better (or even possible) in EU...
13:37:38 <joepie91> monod: cryptographical failure is not a problem specific to Bitcoin
13:37:57 <joepie91> monod: when the crypto algos in Bitcoin break, quite literally everything and everybody is fucked, including the traditional banking system
13:38:00 <joepie91> this is a problem inherent to crypto
13:38:10 <joepie91> if you're caught off-guard, you have a problem
13:38:29 <joepie91> MK_FG: I fairly frequently exchange BTC for EUR
13:38:32 <joepie91> through Bitonic, usually
13:38:41 <joepie91> (local Dutch instant exchange thingie, they just send a next-day bank wire)
13:38:59 <joepie91> in Canada you now have that Bitcoin ATM and afaik somebody's working on a similar instant exchange there
13:39:35 <MK_FG> Yeah, sounds simple enough
13:45:11 <joepie91> MK_FG: no experience with the ATM model, but the Bitonic model is simple as shit
13:45:12 <joepie91> lol
13:52:19 <monod> I see your point, yet something else pops to my mind. joepie91. Traditional banks are inside a "global" system: there will not be a public disclosure of how crypto's math will be broken until major banks will be safe (I use to think that these main banks does stand on the very edge of cryptography)
13:55:33 <MK_FG> Hm, if someone goes on reddit and says "here's the code to break RSA and 3DES", how would the possibly stop it?
13:56:36 <MK_FG> *they
14:00:51 <joepie91> monod: that's actually a completely incorrect assumption
14:01:06 <joepie91> see also what MK_FG said
14:01:49 <Xeross> Or just anonymously leak it through Tor if you're paranoid
14:01:51 <joepie91> I could similarly argue that "those who break crypto and publicly disclose it, would likely alert Bitcoin devs ahead of time because they're fellow people interested in crypto", and that would be a similarly unreliable assumption
14:02:42 <MK_FG> It'd be "fun times" on the internets if such thing were to happen
14:03:04 <MK_FG> So many stuff will probably go offline ein an instant
14:05:18 <Xeross> sudo poweroff :V
14:06:25 <MK_FG> Not before you have fun with it! ;)
14:09:32 <joepie91> lol
14:09:45 <joepie91> I suspect a lot of ISPs will be sudo sending sysadmins to unplug all their crap
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14:24:22 loggy (loggy@5C4B2CE4.B8E60B3B.FD9B6484.IP) has joined #crytocc
14:24:22 <> Topic for #crytocc is: Cryto Coding Collective | THIS IS A PUBLICALLY LOGGED CHANNEL. |, | Rules: no Anonymous, no cracking, no drama | Now, with more dpk! | Cryto Research: | RIP Aaron Swartz
14:24:22 <> Users on #crytocc: loggy &botpie91 ukied LapAnon truetravesty c0y monod DrWhat ElectRo` &MK_FG Zekka joepie91 Goochy Xeross vld @SpaghettiCode lysobit Asad niveus achus IR601 twitchyliquid64
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14:25:01 <monod> dunno
14:25:18 <monod> connection lost, disconnected by host
14:25:35 <monod> they unplugged and plugged back in some cable :D
14:25:36 Sabit (sabit@5C4B2CE4.B8E60B3B.FD9B6484.IP) has joined #crytocc
14:25:51 <monod> maybe interposing some evil thing or not..
14:26:03 <monod> anyway, I see what you all said
14:26:16 <monod> and yes, I thought lots of stuff were to go offline asap
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14:26:46 <monod> if that happened, yet I don't have any idea about what would happen if someone would post such a thing on Reddit
14:27:01 <monod> yet, theoretically, banks can't take such a huge risk
14:27:18 <monod> there must be something to cover their a$$es I suspect.
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14:30:12 <joepie91> monod: no :)
14:30:28 <joepie91> monod: it's easy to assume that "because X are big, they must have / be doing Y"
14:30:34 <joepie91> and most of the times you assume that, you're going to be wrong
14:30:50 <joepie91> incompetency, inability, unavailability exist on all levels
14:31:05 <joepie91> the bigger or 'heavier' an organization is, the more likely it is that stuff goes wrong somewhere
14:31:14 <joepie91> _never_ assume infallibility because of size
14:33:08 <monod> I wanted to be cautious because in my opinion it's also easy to think that since X is big, then they have troubles keeping up their pace :D
14:33:22 <monod> so, it's just unpredictable, in my conclusion
14:34:41 <monod> ##math @freenode is fun
14:34:58 <monod> they call "basic" the things I'm struck studying :D
14:35:17 <monod> just an off-topic there, sry :P
14:35:26 <monod> back idle
14:35:31 <Xeross> The bigger an organisation the higher the chance they have some messed up shit
14:35:53 <Xeross> Because (middle-)management
14:38:49 <MK_FG> And execs jerking off to "safe_porn.exe" daily ;)
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14:41:56 <joepie91> lol
15:19:24 <dorotea> of course it begins raining before I leave
15:21:08 * joepie91 gives dorotea a rain coat
15:21:19 * joepie91 swears at his ISP breaking yet another SSH connection
15:21:48 * dorotea puts on rain pants and boots too
15:22:00 <dorotea> joepie91:) I'll answer your tweet during class later lol
15:22:05 <dorotea> need to get out the door ><
15:22:38 <joepie91> please do it on IRC
15:22:43 <joepie91> twitter is awful
15:22:44 <joepie91> :P
15:22:48 <dorotea> kk, tonight then
15:34:45 Cryto952 (Cryto952@9FBD4691.FC3068B1.29B5A855.IP) has joined #crytocc
15:34:57 <Cryto952> anyone here use riseup mail?
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16:51:02 <monod> safe_porn.exe, LOL
16:52:04 <monod> "<joepie91> _never_ assume infallibility because of size" and this is one thing I'll tell the next time I meet with a girl :D
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17:03:45 <joepie91> .welcome SilverPhoenix
17:03:45 <botpie91> SilverPhoenix: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
17:18:37 <monod> gotttta go
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17:33:01 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
17:33:01 <loggy>
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18:43:48 <Riddler> hello
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19:34:24 <joepie91> well, looks like HE in kansas city took a giant dump
19:37:34 <Riddler> what?
19:39:26 <joepie91> Riddler: what part of what I said is unclear?
19:41:50 <Riddler> all of it
19:43:07 <joepie91> Riddler: looks like HE {Hurricane Electric, a transit provider} in Kansas City {a city in the US} took a giant dump {their network is having a lot of packet loss, thus some of my servers are down}
19:45:07 <Riddler> thank you
19:50:38 <joepie91> anyway
19:50:42 <joepie91> time for me to sleep
19:50:43 <joepie91> goodnight
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20:43:42 <SilverPhoenix> Wikileaks 11:39  GMT
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21:33:43 <kilo> whao
21:33:52 <kilo> gn @all
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22:14:41 <dorotea> awh, of course I miss joe's bedtime by 2h
22:14:48 <dorotea> lol
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22:21:33 <kilo> yay responzz
22:21:57 <kilo> peoplez need their beauty sleep
22:22:11 <kilo> *lol*
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23:03:41 <iceTwy> joepie91: ping
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