Cryto! 15 November 2013
00:05:04 T0R_till (T0R_till@cryto-DC7F77E2.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc
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00:29:19 <macbeth> how do i change a nickserv password?
00:33:04 <joepie91> probably with SET PASSWORD
00:33:25 <macbeth> you are correct
00:33:33 <macbeth> i had a mind derp there
00:33:58 <macbeth> /nickserv set password <=[]=password=[]=>
00:37:48 <probably> i can't believe my new server costed me so much
00:38:11 <probably> -,- e3-1230v2, /28, 16gb ram, 2x1tb hdd, 1gbit unmetered - $600/m
00:38:40 <macbeth> [0].(o)
00:40:18 <probably> joepie91
00:40:43 <joepie91> what?
00:40:52 <probably> ever take pics of ur new desk?
00:40:55 <joepie91> also that's not a very good deal
00:41:01 <joepie91> yes, I posted them in here yesterday
00:41:01 <joepie91> :p
00:41:05 <probably> link?
00:41:07 <joepie91> even highlighted you
00:41:09 <probably> and meh, it's pretty good
00:41:11 <joepie91> err, look it up in logs
00:41:16 <joepie91> http://wire.cryto.net/logs
00:41:18 <probably> its in russia though, hence the pretty evil fee
00:41:27 <joepie91> ah
00:41:34 <joepie91> 1gbit international? or domestic?
00:41:54 <probably> int.
00:42:34 <probably> joepie91, whichh log it'll be in?
00:42:37 <probably> just searched 3 can't find it
00:44:24 <joepie91> v
00:44:26 <joepie91> <joepie91>yes, I posted them in here yesterday
00:44:29 <joepie91> so, yesterdays logs
00:44:33 <joepie91> it's an imgur link
00:44:34 <probably> I looked mate
00:44:36 <probably> did you [off] iot?
00:44:41 <probably> loggy, pointer?
00:44:41 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-11-15#T00-44-41
00:44:50 * joepie91 sighs
00:45:01 <probably> Nov 14th. nothing
00:45:14 <probably> ah k its in the 13th
00:45:15 <probably> -,- so 2 days ago
00:45:16 <joepie91> right, it was before the date rollover...
00:45:26 <probably> lol k
00:45:27 <probably> found it
00:45:31 <probably> looks nice
00:45:45 <probably> that keyboard
00:45:48 <probably> looks awesome
00:49:31 <joepie91> probably: http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/150270/medion_erazer_x81005_gaming_toetsenbord_qwerty.jpg
00:49:35 <joepie91> (my key prints are slightly different)
00:49:48 <joepie91> bought it at the Aldi yeaaars ago
00:49:56 <joepie91> <3 it
00:50:02 <joepie91> probably; it's very nice for programming
00:50:12 <joepie91> keys are a bit wobbly, not stiff
00:50:28 <joepie91> so you can slide with your fingers from one key to the other very easily, as they give way and tilt a little
00:50:56 <joepie91> and they're quite clicky - they're a bit softened, but definitely not squishy
00:51:24 <probably> cool
00:51:29 <probably> how much did it cost you?
00:51:44 <joepie91> I bought the mouse and the keyboard at the same time, one was 25 euro and the other was 35 euro
00:51:47 <joepie91> I forgot which was which price
00:51:53 <joepie91> these keyboards are still being sold btw!
00:51:58 <joepie91> also
00:52:06 <joepie91> the mouse is a laser mouse (not optical)
00:52:23 <joepie91> with multiple DPI settings, side-scroll, navigation keys on the side that you DON'T accidentally click
00:52:31 <joepie91> and an autofire mode :3
00:53:16 <probably> nice
00:53:34 <joepie91> probably: http://www.medion.com/nl/prod/MEDION%C2%AE+USB+ERAZER+toetsenbord+X81005+%28qwerty%29/20053375A1
00:53:55 <probably> hmm
00:53:56 <probably> nice
00:53:57 <probably> not bad
00:53:58 <joepie91> OH!
00:54:01 <joepie91> they sell the mouse again also!
00:54:11 <joepie91> http://www.medion.com/nl/prod/MEDION%C2%AE+USB+gaming+muis+MD+85888/20040882A1?recommendationId=57a99dd0-4d90-11e3-a299-c86000be4267&wt_mc=nl.intern.recomm.productDetail.on-ma&wt_cc1=4&wt_cc2=20040882A1&wt_cc3=20053375A1
00:54:17 <joepie91> highly recommended
00:54:24 <joepie91> (though note that on some surfaces it becomes jittery)
00:54:32 <joepie91> (it's a bit -too- precise..)
00:55:02 <joepie91> but yeah, mouse is 400/800/1200/1600 DPI configurable
00:55:11 <joepie91> though DPI config only works with Windows drivers :(
00:55:13 <joepie91> (same for autofire)
00:56:34 <probably> mmk
00:57:17 <joepie91> oh, this is interesting
00:57:17 <joepie91> http://www.medion.com/nl/prod/MEDION%C2%AE+USB+QWERTY+gaming+toetsenbord+X81005/20047324A1?recommendationId=9ca5ae60-4d90-11e3-a299-c86000be4267&wt_mc=nl.intern.recomm.productDetail.on-ma&wt_cc1=3&wt_cc2=20047324A1&wt_cc3=20040882A1
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00:57:22 <joepie91> vs
00:57:22 <joepie91> http://www.medion.com/nl/prod/MEDION%C2%AE+USB+ERAZER+toetsenbord+X81005+%28qwerty%29/20053375A1?recommendationId=9ca5ae60-4d90-11e3-a299-c86000be4267&wt_mc=nl.intern.recomm.productDetail.on-ma&wt_cc1=2&wt_cc2=20053375A1&wt_cc3=20040882A1
00:57:29 <joepie91> one is more expensive than the other
00:57:32 <joepie91> and article nr differ
00:57:38 <joepie91> but the model is the same...?
00:57:46 <probably> hmm idk
01:02:07 daemon (daemon@CB03FA94.D4BF3E17.2F44BC5B.IP) has joined #crytocc
01:02:09 <daemon> o/
01:02:16 <joepie91> ohai
01:02:18 <joepie91> been a while indeed :)
01:02:36 <daemon> indeed I was fingering some of my old perl code (irc bot [app::artillery])
01:02:44 <daemon> and I seen cryto listed as a defined network
01:02:48 <daemon> and thought JOEPIE!
01:02:49 <daemon> lol
01:02:56 <joepie91> pft, you had to be reminded of it by code :P
01:03:03 <daemon> my life is code
01:03:07 <daemon> :/
01:03:15 <joepie91> also, daemon, in your absence somebody came by who was interested in Perl stuff
01:03:17 <joepie91> but.. yeah :P
01:03:24 <joepie91> emphasis on 'absence' :(
01:03:35 Crypted (Crypted@Crypted.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
01:03:38 <joepie91> also, daemon, http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Hyves
01:03:44 <Crypted> Indeed.
01:03:50 <joepie91> .welcome Crypted
01:03:51 <daemon> im in way to much shit
01:03:51 <botpie91> Crypted: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
01:03:56 <daemon> I just had to axe 13 projects
01:04:01 <joepie91> daemon: wha
01:04:13 <daemon> I have 3 money making code projects on the table
01:04:17 <daemon> and two major opensource ones
01:04:22 <daemon> I have so much workj + my day job
01:04:25 <Crypted> Okay joe.
01:04:28 <daemon> I feel like I am losingm y mind
01:04:43 <daemon> not just in perl either
01:04:47 <daemon> python/perl/erlang split
01:04:47 <daemon> :o
01:04:51 macbeth has parted #crytocc (GAH!!)
01:04:59 <Crypted> Bye mac.
01:05:51 <joepie91> daemon: which opensource projects are you working on?
01:05:55 <joepie91> also, erlang ;_;
01:06:06 <probably> .bitcoin
01:06:07 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $415.66, 1 BTC = €320.00
01:06:21 <daemon> joepie91, opendungeons, PoCo-Client-MtGox
01:06:33 * joepie91 twitches
01:06:46 <Crypted> brb
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01:07:39 <daemon> joepie91, *twitches*? opensource dungeon keeper is an awesome idea ;p
01:10:52 <joepie91> daemon: twitch was re: mt gox
01:10:53 <joepie91> lol
01:11:10 <joepie91> opendungeons seems pretty cool
01:11:49 <daemon> you should join us
01:11:54 <daemon> :D
01:12:02 <daemon> im coding the server for it [multiplayer] in erlang
01:12:06 <daemon> using streamin json
01:12:33 <joepie91> erlang
01:12:33 <joepie91> bah
01:12:38 <joepie91> also
01:12:38 <joepie91> http://opendungeons.sourceforge.net/faq.html
01:12:42 <joepie91> this page is terrily horribly broken
01:14:02 <daemon> its in renewal
01:14:11 <daemon> the first thing I did when IWas get involved was buy them a real domain
01:14:15 <daemon> and a redmine instance
01:14:23 <daemon> to start getting a bit more organized
01:14:33 <joepie91> :P
01:14:42 <daemon> :)
01:15:14 <daemon> funny shit on the weekly skype meeting though
01:15:26 <daemon> there is no single developer from a domain sert
01:15:37 <daemon> so we have norwegian,polish,danish,english,germand & finish
01:15:41 <daemon> all talking english in skype
01:15:43 <daemon> its comedy
01:19:22 <joepie91> hehe
01:19:30 <joepie91> also, daemon
01:19:33 <joepie91> mildly amusing
01:19:40 <daemon> 8)
01:19:43 <joepie91> if you look at http://tracker.archiveteam.org/hyves-uname/#
01:19:49 <joepie91> graph at the bottom
01:19:56 <joepie91> you will see a drop every night
01:19:58 <joepie91> around the same time
01:19:59 <joepie91> right?
01:20:21 <daemon> right
01:20:24 <daemon> nicely rendered graph
01:20:26 <daemon> with streaming data
01:20:27 <joepie91> we were guessing that this might've been a cronjob running at Hyves during the night, slowing stuff down
01:20:31 <daemon> your work?
01:20:34 <joepie91> thus decreasing data influx
01:20:50 <joepie91> and well
01:20:57 <joepie91> the admin panel shows the amount of requests made
01:21:00 <Crypted> Back.
01:21:02 <joepie91> ie. how many items are being submitted
01:21:06 <daemon> ye
01:21:09 <joepie91> and well...
01:21:09 <joepie91> http://owely.com/91hAJnu
01:21:18 <joepie91> I'm pretty sure that they have a cronjob set at 2:00 AM :)
01:21:32 <joepie91> (yes, the minute sorting is off, the 59 should go before the 00)
01:21:40 <daemon> it looks like it
01:21:41 <joepie91> notice the drop in requests, heh
01:21:42 <daemon> with that graph
01:21:46 <daemon> especially if its an averages graph
01:21:49 <daemon> smoothed over peaks
01:21:54 <joepie91> well yes, but it starts at -exactly- 2:00 it seems
01:22:07 <joepie91> so I'm guessign they have some kind of maintenance cron running
01:22:09 <joepie91> at 2:00 AM
01:22:12 <joepie91> every night
01:22:16 <joepie91> slowing down their shit
01:22:21 <joepie91> anyway
01:22:26 <joepie91> no, I did not make the tracker
01:22:27 <joepie91> nor the graphs
01:22:28 <joepie91> :P
01:22:32 <daemon> :)
01:22:49 <joepie91> I -am- organizing a large part of the hyves archiving thing though
01:22:55 <joepie91> and wrote a bunch of processing code
01:23:00 <daemon> then again
01:23:00 <joepie91> but the tracker is a reusable pre-made thin
01:23:03 <joepie91> thing *
01:23:05 <joepie91> for archiving projects
01:23:07 <daemon> the weekly graph is a linear positive too
01:23:23 <joepie91> mm?
01:24:03 <daemon> swap to '1w'
01:24:09 <daemon> very bottom graphy
01:24:20 <daemon> its a positive linear graph
01:24:38 <daemon> so irrelevent of a cronjob at 2am
01:24:49 <daemon> the entire thing its monitoring (which I have no idea what it is)
01:24:52 <daemon> is increasing
01:25:02 <daemon> so 2am for the update is not unreasonable
01:26:03 <joepie91> well yes
01:26:09 <joepie91> <daemon>the entire thing its monitoring (which I have no idea what it is)
01:26:11 <joepie91> the incoming items
01:26:14 <joepie91> this is distributed archivint
01:26:16 <joepie91> archiving *
01:26:34 <joepie91> people run a script, it gets tasks from the tracker, downloads those, uploads the results, marks task as done
01:26:48 <daemon> for what
01:27:11 <joepie91> <joepie91>also, daemon, http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Hyves
01:27:39 <daemon> a distributed compression network for a social site?
01:27:46 <joepie91> wat?
01:27:49 <joepie91> daemon, read the wiki page...
01:28:24 <joepie91> I have RSI issues, having to re-type here what is already explained on the wiki page is not helpful :|
01:28:40 <daemon> :| sorry
01:28:43 <daemon> hey you on skype
01:29:01 <joepie91> technically, yes
01:29:05 <joepie91> in practice I have no working mic
01:29:08 <joepie91> and I primarily use XMPP
01:29:15 <daemon> ?add 'paulgwebster'
01:29:39 <Crypted> Okat?
01:29:42 <Crypted> Okay*
01:29:53 <daemon> paul.g.webster@googlemail.com
01:29:58 <joepie91> Crypted: I think that was aimed at me
01:30:07 <joepie91> daemon: is that gtalk?
01:30:09 <daemon> and you got a windows machine somewhere?
01:30:12 <daemon> no skype
01:30:18 <joepie91> right
01:30:20 <joepie91> and no, I do not
01:30:20 <daemon> no, skype
01:30:32 <daemon> me and some scandanavian guys play civ 4
01:30:34 <joepie91> I already added you on Skype, accept it :P
01:30:37 <daemon> be awesome to have you game in
01:30:42 * joepie91 no has time
01:30:50 <daemon> like I do
01:30:59 <daemon> but I set aside monday or tuesday for gaming and chilling
01:31:06 <daemon> otherwise I have a semi psychotic break
01:31:24 <daemon> and I have no invite/contact requests yet ;p
01:32:07 <joepie91> daemon: http://owely.com/5MGp69
01:32:25 <daemon> joepie91, try paul-g-webster
01:32:48 <daemon> brb piss
01:35:04 <daemon> ok
01:35:13 <daemon> got that one
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01:38:33 <Crypted> Okay?
01:38:55 <probably> ok that was odd to say the least.
01:39:59 <Crypted> I guess it was.
01:43:48 <joepie91> what are you guys confused about?
01:44:17 <Crypted> Idk.
01:45:44 <probably> why the hell my house is being creepy as fuck
01:45:47 <probably> ^,^
01:47:06 <Crypted> What is it doing?
01:47:21 <probably> long story, not worth explaining
01:47:26 <probably> ill just call someone probably
01:47:27 <Crypted> Okay?
01:47:28 <probably> to deal with it
01:47:35 <Crypted> A ghost hunter?
01:47:41 <probably> idk
01:47:42 <probably> maybe
01:47:43 <Crypted> Lulz
01:47:43 <probably> lelelele
01:48:06 <probably> lel im not kidding though
01:48:08 <probably> i might
01:48:09 <probably> for the fuck of it
01:48:21 <Crypted> Lul
01:48:47 <Crypted> Maybe god is playing with you. Lulz
01:48:51 <probably> if only lul
01:49:21 <Crypted> Lul
01:49:42 <probably> ok im eigther very tired or high as fuck.
01:49:50 <probably> or both
01:49:51 <probably> idk
01:49:51 <probably> lel
01:49:54 <Crypted> Lul
01:49:58 <probably> my toilet seat was bouncing up and down
01:49:59 <Crypted> High on what exactly?
01:50:01 <probably> and making loud noise
01:50:03 <probably> leleel
01:50:08 <Crypted> Maybe high.
01:50:13 <Crypted> Sounds like it.
01:50:14 <probably> YO TOILET, NO MORE DUBSTEP KTHX
01:50:20 <Crypted> Lulz
01:50:25 <probably> lel
01:50:29 <probably> if ur gonna do it at least have a good beat
01:50:30 <probably> lelelelel
01:50:34 <Crypted> Maybe you should feed it.
01:50:36 <probably> oh god, yep. high as fuck probably
01:51:06 <Crypted> I think the toilet is hungry.
01:51:13 <probably> i already fed it
01:51:17 <probably> some vomit lelelel
01:52:59 <Crypted> brb.
01:53:06 <probably> loooool k
01:56:14 <Sue> joepie91:
02:00:38 <Crypted> Back.
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02:09:58 <probably> k
02:14:35 <Charles> seen t0p
02:15:06 <Crypted> No,not lately.
02:16:10 <Charles> Crypted, aww thx u always reply
02:16:12 <Charles> :)
02:16:17 <Crypted> Yeah.
02:16:20 <Crypted> I reply.
02:16:30 <Crypted> I haven't seen t0p in a while though.
02:16:30 <Charles> t0p is fending on his own. hope hes okay.
02:16:40 <Crypted> Do you know him personally?
02:16:51 <Charles> IRL?
02:16:51 <Charles> nah.
02:16:56 <Charles> but i can picture him
02:17:02 <Crypted> Okay?
02:17:16 <Crypted> Picture him?
02:20:14 <Charles> "imagine him"
02:20:24 <Charles> i get a feel of what type of person he is
02:20:32 <Crypted> Okay,a little on the creepy side.
02:20:44 <Charles> erm no
02:21:08 <Charles> nah. im just saying he seems like a good guy :)
02:21:13 <Crypted> Ah.
02:21:15 <Crypted> Okay.
02:21:21 <Crypted> He's cool.
02:21:32 <Charles> Crypted, u type really fast
02:21:32 <Charles> whats ur wpm
02:21:48 <Crypted> Hell if I know.
02:21:56 <Crypted> I don't know,lemme check.
02:25:51 <Crypted> 2701 WPM
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02:27:15 <Charles> dafuq
02:27:19 <Charles> is that a typo?
02:27:29 <Crypted> No.
02:27:38 <Charles> u mean 271 right? :o
02:27:41 <Crypted> No.
02:27:47 <Crypted> 2710
02:27:49 <Crypted> Lulz
02:27:50 <Charles> 2701 will set u on the world records
02:28:06 <Crypted> I know,my copy and paste skills are beast.
02:28:13 <Charles> lol okay. idk whether u r serious but good for you
02:28:18 <Crypted> Lul
02:28:21 <Crypted> c/p
02:28:28 <Crypted> I think my real WPM is around 50.
02:28:35 <Charles> haha
02:28:35 <Charles> okay thats
02:28:39 <Charles> not impressive
02:28:44 <Crypted> I know.
02:28:44 <Charles> :P
02:28:48 <Crypted> :-p
02:28:52 <Crypted> I added a nose.
02:28:56 <Crypted> In three seconds.
02:29:02 <Charles> uh..
02:29:16 <Crypted> Lul
02:29:18 <Crypted> What?
02:29:32 * Charles silence
02:29:43 * Crypted crickets.
02:31:17 <Crypted> What's yours then?
02:31:45 <Charles> lemme see
02:32:00 <Charles> 5 mins ill go check it
02:32:00 <Crypted> Okay.
02:32:27 <probably> lmfao
02:32:29 <Crypted> Okay.
02:32:32 <probably> 2710 pff
02:32:34 <probably> bullshit
02:32:56 <Charles> but hey
02:33:11 <Charles> i cant do that now Crypted
02:33:14 <Crypted> Well,if you are questioning my Copy and Paste skills,then I would like to see you do better.
02:33:15 <Charles> im using my phone :P
02:33:19 <probably> I can do 283 words-per-minute lelelel
02:33:19 <Crypted> lul
02:33:25 <Charles> keypad different from keyboard haha
02:33:39 <Crypted> I have one,
02:33:40 <Crypted> Has dial up internet. XD
02:33:43 <probably> lelllllllllll brb
02:33:57 <Crypted> Probably
02:34:14 <Charles> probably, how fast
02:34:18 <Charles> is
02:34:28 <Charles> your speech
02:34:45 <Crypted> Down here,standard.
02:35:01 <Crypted> Why would you need my speech speed?
02:35:04 <Charles> ha
02:35:14 <Charles> nah
02:35:14 <Charles> im bored
02:35:17 <Crypted> gah
02:35:19 <Charles> just asking random questions
02:35:20 <Crypted> hag
02:35:21 <Crypted> dkd
02:35:22 <Crypted> oka
02:35:28 <Charles> lets talk about sth else then
02:35:39 pzuraq has quit (Connection reset by peer)
02:35:43 <Crypted> Okay.
02:35:45 <Crypted> What then?
02:35:56 * Charles thinks
02:36:17 * Charles does not know what to talk abt
02:36:28 * Crypted Agrees.
02:36:41 <Crypted> PARADOX FOUND,SPELLING ERROR.
02:36:52 <Charles> whut
02:36:54 * Crypted shutdown -s 1 minute.
02:37:10 <Charles> ..
02:37:35 <Crypted> 30 SECONDS REMAINING.
02:37:54 <Charles> mmk. have fun!
02:37:58 <Charles> see u soon
02:38:10 * Crypted SHUTTINGDOwn.
02:38:14 * Crypted shuts down.
02:38:39 * Crypted re-boot comencing
02:38:55 * Crypted booting...
02:38:56 <Charles> ah. okay :)
02:38:58 * Crypted booting...
02:39:00 * Crypted booting...
02:39:06 * Crypted OS selection
02:39:16 * Crypted says: HAL OS
02:39:27 <Charles> lolwhat
02:39:32 * Crypted booting into Operating HAL OS
02:39:44 * Crypted booting...
02:39:45 * Crypted booting...
02:39:48 * Crypted booting...
02:40:12 * Crypted Enter password for username:Crypted
02:40:24 <Charles> lol
02:40:34 * Crypted Booted,Welcome back Crypto.
02:40:39 <Charles> rypted
02:40:54 <Crypted> Nah,crypto was my old name.
02:41:13 <Crypted> It got registered before I even thought abou that.
02:41:43 <Crypted> So,I took the name Crypted.
02:41:48 <Crypted> I still prefer Crypto.
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02:43:26 <Crypted> Gtg.
02:43:41 Crypted has quit (User quit: Page closed)
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02:49:41 * joepie91 sighs
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04:42:47 <Riddler> hello
04:42:58 <Charles> hai
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05:11:30 <Riddler> anyone here?
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07:47:52 <monod> bjirjiaibbjirjiaibbjirjiaibbjirjiaib
07:47:54 <monod> hello
07:48:30 <Charles> hi monod
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09:36:44 <escape> hey
09:37:13 <escape> hav a tech question (webdev related....) wich may is failplaced here but tried anywhere else this the last place i try
09:37:13 <Charles> hi escape
09:37:25 <escape> is anyone experienced with html5video+iphone shit?
09:37:32 <escape> hi Charles :)
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10:40:46 <DrWhat> Duhh
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12:03:37 <norbert79> Looks like old IRCNet can also have some nice surprises...
12:03:42 <norbert79> err...
12:03:53 <Aaron> hey i cant connect to anonops
12:03:59 * Aaron sighs
12:04:10 <norbert79> botpie91: tell joepie91 that https://github.com/search?q=exec+sudo+$_GET&type=Code
12:04:11 <botpie91> norbert79: I'll pass that on when joepie91 is around.
12:04:34 <norbert79> botpie91: tell joepie91 Sometimes you can find interesting things on GitHub :)
12:04:35 <botpie91> norbert79: I'll pass that on when joepie91 is around.
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14:23:58 <norbert79> .bitcoin
14:23:59 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $425.39, 1 BTC = €333.10
14:24:07 <norbert79> Crazy
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14:40:50 <lysobit> .bitcoin
14:40:52 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $427.48, 1 BTC = €333.00
14:40:57 <lysobit> .bitcoin
14:40:58 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $427.48, 1 BTC = €333.00
14:42:22 <DrWhat> Come on :D
14:42:29 <DrWhat> $700 please
14:42:33 <DrWhat> you can do it
14:42:37 <DrWhat> Dont disapoint me
14:42:50 <lysobit> lol
14:43:06 <lysobit> The value of BTC is going to increase by at least 100x over the coming years
14:44:27 <lysobit> a $4 billion market cap is... pocket change
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15:06:09 <probably> lol
15:06:18 <Charles> lul
15:06:22 <probably> .bitcoin++;
15:06:25 <probably> if only that worked
15:06:37 <Charles> .bitcoim
15:06:42 <Charles> .bitcoin
15:06:43 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $429.47, 1 BTC = €332.00
15:06:54 <Charles> WOOOO
15:06:55 <probably> $IRC->pushCommand($channel, '.bitcoin');
15:06:58 <probably> lelelelelelelelel
15:07:04 <Charles> Woooooo
15:07:04 <Charles> hoooo
15:08:13 <norbert79> The issue with this high price is, that it can end up in a crash of the value, when many start selling it
15:08:22 <norbert79> then prices could drop faster, than expected
15:08:33 <norbert79> but let's just not talk about this :)
15:08:42 <Charles> i would cash out immediately
15:08:42 <norbert79> I don't want to fuse a war again :D
15:09:02 <norbert79> Yeah, you would, but call me a financial idiot, but the rising of the Biotcoin value reminds me of 1929
15:09:14 <Charles> norbert79, u had a war about btc before?:o
15:09:16 <norbert79> where people started to sell, so prices dropped, then more selling
15:09:29 <norbert79> Charles: Yeah, we had a fused discussion me and joepie91 once
15:09:52 <norbert79> Charles: But hey, it's not a topic what you can't discuss without interest
15:10:00 <norbert79> especially with one, who has interest of having it
15:10:03 <norbert79> so not an easy topic
15:10:12 <lysobit> norbert79: there is no doubt that it is going to crash, but that doesn't mean anything for its long-term value
15:10:30 <norbert79> lysobit: I would lie if I could say this can be predicted what would happen
15:10:33 <lysobit> The price of bitcoin has increased from $0.01 to $450 in 3 years.
15:10:36 <norbert79> lysobit: I just say: Maybe
15:10:42 <Charles> lysobit, short term investment
15:10:56 <lysobit> It is not insane to suggest that years down the line 1 bitcoin will be worth much, much more, possibly $1 million
15:11:18 <norbert79> I hardly doubt it will reach that value ever
15:11:23 <norbert79> Maybe 10.000
15:11:39 <norbert79> but since it's unpredictable it's hard to use it as investment
15:11:59 <norbert79> at least not for long term
15:12:04 <Charles> short term as i said
15:12:07 <lysobit> I have no doubt that it will reach, at minimum, 100x times the value it is now
15:12:29 <Charles> wow
15:12:34 <Charles> lets bet.
15:12:58 <norbert79> Charles: Sure, but investments not always are based on short term especially not for a currency with a complicated system in the background. I assume it's merely so by the fact that it's mostly used for illegal goods
15:12:59 <Charles> 3 yrs is long though :/
15:13:11 <norbert79> Charles: Look at the €... And that's 11 years old by now :)
15:13:19 <Charles> haha druggggs
15:13:26 <norbert79> not only
15:13:30 <norbert79> but included, yes
15:13:37 <lysobit> Charles: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/521629/20131112/bitcoin-gold-2-0-cameron-tyler-winklevoss.htm
15:13:49 <lysobit> Not only do they own a sizeable chunk of the 11.9 million Bitcoins currently in existence, the Winklevoss twins are in the process of creating an exchange traded fund (ETF) for the currency. "We filed an amended S-1 [to the Securities & Exchange Commission] in October, and we just still going through the process," Cameron said.
15:14:18 <lysobit> Although Bitcoin's value has risen from $125 to more than $370 (£78 to £232) per coin in just six weeks, leading some to fear another bubble-like boom-and-bust scenario is on the way, the twins remain confident that the virtual currency's market cap will grow to 100 times what it is today.
15:14:18 <lysobit> "The bull case scenario is a $400 billion market cap...the market cap is around $4bn right now," Tyler Winklevoss told CNBC.
15:14:23 <cayce> oh yeah, if btc doesn't die it'll be worth a lot
15:14:23 <norbert79> lysobit: You see the main problem is, that only early-buy-inners have the interest while new buyers are not that lot interested
15:14:44 <Charles> nah lysobit it will nvr reach a million
15:14:45 <norbert79> lysobit: So right now it's just too expensive for many considering it's limited use
15:14:51 <Charles> thats just fking insane
15:15:13 <lysobit> .title http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-2013-11
15:15:14 <botpie91> lysobit: The Price Of Bitcoin Could Go To $1 Million - Business Insider
15:15:15 <Charles> they gonna produce more norbert79
15:15:26 <norbert79> Charles: that will rise many other issues
15:15:28 <lysobit> Charles: you'd have said the same thing in 2008 about it reaching $450 when it was worth $0.001
15:15:35 <norbert79> Charles: especially from legal perspective
15:15:42 <cayce> as long as there is interest, that means more exchange will be done in btc, means the price will continue to rise.
15:15:46 <lysobit> norbert79: you are assuming that new buyers are only interested in buying bitcoins purely for an investment
15:15:59 <lysobit> norbert79: when in fact, the majority actually use bitcoin as a currency to buy stuff
15:16:04 <norbert79> lysobit: I can't at least see no other options, as regular won't buy these...
15:16:10 <Charles> like ice cream
15:16:12 <norbert79> lysobit: Limited to US mostly :)
15:16:15 <lysobit> norbert79: do
15:16:18 <lysobit> hold on
15:16:29 <cayce> It's not limited to the US
15:16:35 <cayce> china is one of the largest traders right now
15:16:36 <cayce> >_>
15:16:50 <cayce> and I think it's been said they're using it for money laundering, but whatever
15:16:56 <cayce> doesn't matter, interest is interest
15:17:08 <lysobit> [15:16:05] <norbert79> lysobit: I can't at least see no other options, as regular won't buy these...
15:17:14 <norbert79> Maybe, but if you look at the prices when asked in BTC and in regular currency, then you will see also a huge difference there
15:17:22 <cayce> the thing is, the price of btc has to be able to encapsulate all trade conducted within it
15:17:26 <norbert79> So why wasting my time with BTC then?
15:17:27 <lysobit> like I said, people buy bitcoins as an actual currency to _buy_ things
15:17:34 <lysobit> you can buy anything with bitcoin
15:17:41 <norbert79> Groceries?
15:17:43 <lysobit> yup
15:17:49 <norbert79> Not around my place
15:17:55 <lysobit> http://www.coindesk.com/groceries-bitcoin-egifter-walmart/
15:17:57 <lysobit> .title
15:17:58 <botpie91> lysobit: Pay for groceries with bitcoin via eGifter's new Walmart giftcard
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15:18:02 <cayce> dude, just because you can't doesn't mean others can
15:18:03 <lysobit> Do you have a Walmart?
15:18:05 <cayce> n=1 fallacy
15:18:17 <norbert79> Have no Walmart in a 1000 km circle around me :)
15:18:20 <cayce> can't *
15:18:21 <norbert79> EU
15:18:21 <joepie91> oh dear
15:18:22 <botpie91> joepie91: 12:04Z <norbert79> tell joepie91 that https://github.com/search?q=exec+sudo+$_GET&type=Code
15:18:23 <botpie91> joepie91: 12:04Z <norbert79> tell joepie91 Sometimes you can find interesting things on GitHub :)
15:18:23 * joepie91 reads up backlog
15:18:27 <lysobit> buying Bitcoins isn't like investing in shares
15:18:31 <lysobit> it's an actual currency
15:18:33 <lysobit> for buying things
15:18:44 <norbert79> joepie91: Haha, I knew you would like it :D
15:18:53 <joepie91> <norbert79>The issue with this high price is, that it can end up in a crash of the value, when many start selling it
15:18:57 <joepie91> actually this price is pretty goddamn low
15:19:01 <cayce> I forget now, I once ran a calculation about how much a btc would need to be worth to encapsulate all US debt
15:19:08 <cayce> that's a good standard of measure, I think
15:19:18 <Charles> fuck this war. brb
15:19:22 <lysobit> joepie91: compared to what the price is likely to be in a few years, people are going to be kicking themselves for not buying now
15:19:30 <cayce> yap
15:19:34 <joepie91> <norbert79>I hardly doubt it will reach that value ever
15:19:34 <joepie91> <norbert79>Maybe 10.000
15:19:34 <joepie91> read: http://falkvinge.net/2013/03/06/the-target-value-for-bitcoin-is-not-some-50-or-100-it-is-100000-to-1000000/
15:19:36 <cayce> I'm already kicking myself
15:19:43 <cayce> I told people to buy on jan1 and oct1
15:19:51 <cayce> look at the price movements directly after that
15:19:51 <cayce> :|
15:20:17 <lysobit> If you buy $10,000 of Bitcoins today, worst case scenario is that you're going to be a millionare.
15:20:18 <cayce> the thing is, because bitcoin is highly divisible, one actual btc is an irrelevant quantity
15:20:35 <cayce> one btc is not one dollar
15:20:43 <lysobit> yup
15:20:46 <lysobit> people fail to realise that
15:20:47 <cayce> dollars are actual units of measure, you can only break it down into 100 pieces
15:20:53 <norbert79> cayce: Majority of people have enough issues on their own, BTC is a currency mostly for a small group of people. If you want to people buying actual BTC you must create explained and detailed videos just to raise interest. They won't go to sites to read about it, not even buying them...
15:20:53 <joepie91> also, norbert79, you are aware that there are literally thousands of restaurants in Europe now that you can order delivered food at with Bitcoin, through a large food delivery service accepting BC?
15:21:00 <cayce> bitcoins can be broken down as far as you can calculate
15:21:09 <norbert79> joepie91: I am aware of none of those...
15:21:09 <cayce> (I think arbitrarily limited to 8 decimals right now)
15:21:14 <joepie91> ....................
15:21:15 <norbert79> joepie91: Err, not aware I mean
15:21:21 <cayce> norbert79:) no. just no.
15:21:35 <joepie91> norbert79: explained and detailed videos? you mean like weusecoins? or like cbtnuggets' series? or like khan academy's series? or like bitcoin blackboard?
15:21:36 <cayce> people are already using btc even though they have no idea how it works
15:21:40 <joepie91> or...
15:21:41 <cayce> they don't have to
15:21:43 <cayce> that's the beauty
15:21:43 <joepie91> :|
15:21:48 <norbert79> joepie91: Yeah, for example...
15:21:58 <joepie91> norbert79: well, looks like that stage is already passed then
15:22:05 <joepie91> and I'm only mentioning the well-known high quality series
15:22:13 <norbert79> joepie91: Still, I don't see BTC being circulated in my daily life...
15:22:15 <joepie91> there's loads of individual videos on YT and wherever explaining BTW
15:22:17 <cayce> there are tons of 12 year olds on youtube too
15:22:18 <joepie91> BTC *
15:22:19 <joepie91> norbert79: so?
15:22:35 <cayce> norbert79:) again, just because you can't doesn't mean others can't. It's an n=1 fallacy.
15:22:40 <joepie91> how is your PERSONAL observation of BTC in any way relevant for any of the wider aspects of BTC whatsoever?
15:22:52 <lysobit> [15:22:14] <norbert79> joepie91: Still, I don't see BTC being circulated in my daily life...
15:22:54 <norbert79> joepie91: Err.. Wide? Depends on the perspective :)
15:22:56 <cayce> we've got 7 billion people on this planet and half of them have internet
15:22:57 <joepie91> "I can't see it so it doesn't exist" stops being valid after you grow older than 10
15:23:01 <joepie91> at most
15:23:15 <lysobit> This is the reason why you should be investing in Bitcoins right now. Invest right now BEFORE BTC is circulated in daily life.
15:23:30 <lysobit> (though, for thousands of people it is circulated in their daily life)
15:23:35 <norbert79> joepie91: Becoming personal? Come on... Stop that, you can do better.
15:23:37 <lysobit> Many people life purely on Bitcoins
15:23:49 <joepie91> norbert79; no, I am trying to draw an analogy because you don't seem to get the point otherwise
15:23:50 <lysobit> .title http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/522205/20131114/bitcoin-austin-craig-virtual-currency-world-tour.htm
15:23:51 <botpie91> lysobit: Couple Completes 101-Day World Tour Entirely on Bitcoin - IBTimes UK
15:24:18 <cayce> nice!
15:24:20 <norbert79> joepie91: Look.. Neither in Germany, or where I live I could use BTC for buying food, buying petrol or whatever for my daily life. I can't pay my bills in BTC...
15:24:21 <joepie91> also, norbert79, http://www.thuisbezorgd.nl/ http://www.pizza.be/ http://www.lieferservice.de/ http://www.takeaway.com/ http://www.pizza.fr/ http://www.lieferservice.at/ http://www.lieferservice.ch/
15:24:22 <joepie91> there
15:24:28 <cayce> dude btc is getting ahead of me, lysobit fuck
15:24:40 <joepie91> norbert79: I just linked you to a site that has thousands of restaurants IN GERMANY that you can order food at with BTC
15:24:44 <joepie91> wtf are you going on about
15:24:49 <joepie91> seriously :|
15:24:53 <norbert79> joepie91: I said buying food on location
15:24:54 <lysobit> norbert79: if a couple completed a 101 day tour entirely on Bitcoin, you can certainy do all of those things in Germany with bitcoin
15:25:04 <norbert79> joepie91: I either cook or go to restaurants
15:25:05 <joepie91> ... what?
15:25:11 <joepie91> norbert79; okay, so let me get this right
15:25:16 <cayce> we have whole long-standing btc companies whose only purpose is POS software for businesses who want to accept btc
15:25:34 <cayce> like, bam
15:25:53 <cayce> every day last week another article came out about a major retailer or restaurant chain in the US accepting it
15:25:55 <joepie91> norbert79; because you can only order food using BTC on the internet and not on location (supposedly; this is not even true), Bitcoin has no future and/or has no adoption and/or is not used as a transactional currency and/or the exchange rate cannot get higher than it gets currently?
15:26:04 <joepie91> is this seriously what you are arguing right now?
15:26:11 <joepie91> because if not, I have no fucking idea what point you're trying to make
15:26:49 <lysobit> The chicken-and-egg situation with Bitcoins is already being, and has been overcome
15:27:06 <lysobit> We're going to see an exponential domino effect of Bitcoin adaptation
15:27:23 <lysobit> There is a demand for vendors who accept Bitcoins
15:27:24 <norbert79> joepie91: Very simple thing... How do you imagine using your BTC account for buying food in a regular store? You ened to replace all cashier machines, or at least expanding them. Why would a regular store see any option for that investment? There is a life outside the Internet too, and many still prefer that above doing ALL over the Internet.
15:27:54 <lysobit> norbert79:
15:27:55 <lysobit> .title http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24756030
15:27:56 <botpie91> lysobit: BBC News - World's first Bitcoin ATM opens - and other tech news
15:28:30 <lysobit> The café that opened the ATM machine is planning to open thousands more, too
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15:28:43 <lysobit> "Why would a regular store see any option for that investment?"
15:28:45 <joepie91> norbert79: A. there does not seem to be a relation AT ALL between what you just said and what you said earlier
15:28:52 <joepie91> B. tills are replaced -all the time-
15:28:56 <lysobit> Because there is a demand for vendors that accept Bitcoins
15:29:03 <lysobit> that is why it is an option for investment
15:29:06 <joepie91> C. there are already prototypes of verifone firmware SUPPORTING BTC ON REGULAR TERMINALS
15:29:27 <joepie91> norbert79, go read: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Casascius_Bitcoin_POS_system
15:29:30 <joepie91> this has been around for, what? 2 years?
15:29:56 <joepie91> these are regular card terminals used in many many stores already
15:30:09 <norbert79> wqell, call me skeptical but I still no see, that this will become wide-spread accepted in all layers of our lives, but let'"s get back to this topic in five years... let's not forget, the Euro is also quite new, only 11 years old.
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15:30:54 <joepie91> norbert79: you don't seem to have any actual -arguments- to support this claim; it appears to primarily be "it's new so I don't think it'll ever become real just because it's new and small"
15:31:19 <norbert79> look, why do I want to invest into it aside from hoping that the price will stil rising in a year?
15:31:30 <joepie91> if you have to see "I don't see how [...] will become popular" instead of giving arguments why it wouldn't (when there are clear arguments why it would), that is already a red flag
15:31:42 <joepie91> norbert79: I don't care about investing
15:31:55 <joepie91> I care about the defeatist attitude people are carrying all the time
15:31:57 <joepie91> it gets very annoying
15:32:07 <joepie91> HURR DURR NEW AND NOT GOVERNMENT-SANCTIONED SO IT'LL FAIL
15:32:12 <norbert79> Look, but if you aren't, then how would you expect regular people wanting it? :)
15:32:22 <norbert79> And let's stay inside EU
15:32:27 <joepie91> norbert79: what does investment have to do with "regular people wanting it"?
15:32:30 <joepie91> and Bitcoin doesn't stay inside EU
15:32:32 <joepie91> that's kinda the point
15:32:37 <norbert79> exactly...
15:32:45 <lysobit> lol
15:32:50 <lysobit> related but off topic
15:32:51 <lysobit> .title http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-happens-if-you-criticize-bitcoin-2013-11
15:32:52 <botpie91> lysobit: Here's What Happens If You Criticize Bitcoin - Business Insider
15:33:07 <lysobit> oh
15:33:07 <lysobit> god
15:33:09 <lysobit> look at this
15:33:10 <lysobit> "The other day I argued that Bitcoins were fundamentally valueless.
15:33:10 <lysobit> I won't repeat the argument here, but I thought it would be worth pointing out what kind of reaction I got.
15:33:10 <lysobit> Max Keiser said it would be good if I committed suicide in public."
15:33:10 <joepie91> norbert79: how about you try to construct a -proper- valid and detailed argument as to what problems you think Bitcoin has, and why it would have it
15:33:14 <lysobit> http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/527cfeebeab8eaad4c737f43-611-380/screen%20shot%202013-11-08%20at%2010.09.50%20am.jpg
15:33:36 <joepie91> instead of just throwing out short statements and letting me guess what you mean with them
15:34:10 <norbert79> joepie91: Look, I only see zealots and regulars.. Zealots are obsessed, regulars are just not tursting it as it's all digital and it's price rocketing like crazy. Especially during the times when you all hear how many systems got cracked... So why would you expect interest from regular people?
15:34:52 <joepie91> lysobit: aside from Max Keiser having a tendency to be a fucking moron at times, that's quite some twisting of underlying message there
15:35:09 <joepie91> norbert79: that is not a coherent, detailed and valid argument
15:35:15 <lysobit> norbert79: thousands of cafés, small business implementing bitcoin is not interest from regular people?
15:35:32 <joepie91> norbert79: if it fits in one IRC message, it is not a coherent, detailed and valid argument
15:35:34 <norbert79> lysobit: None I am aware of. Really.
15:35:38 <lysobit> wat
15:35:47 <lysobit> just wat
15:35:59 <norbert79> joepie91: You sir are a zealot, sorry to say it this way, and also impossible to even make you think why I would never be able paying my bills in BTC :)
15:36:17 <norbert79> or my mortgage
15:36:22 <norbert79> which I would be happy to get rid of
15:36:23 <joepie91> norbert79: THEN FUCKING EXPLAIN IT INSTEAD OF THROWING RANDOM SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS AND IMPLYING BIGGER CAUSALITY
15:36:27 <joepie91> jesus fucking christ
15:36:34 <joepie91> and just to make sure that you cannot miss it
15:36:37 <joepie91> <joepie91>norbert79: how about you try to construct a -proper- valid and detailed argument as to what problems you think Bitcoin has, and why it would have it
15:36:38 <joepie91> <joepie91>norbert79: how about you try to construct a -proper- valid and detailed argument as to what problems you think Bitcoin has, and why it would have it
15:36:38 <joepie91> <joepie91>norbert79: how about you try to construct a -proper- valid and detailed argument as to what problems you think Bitcoin has, and why it would have it
15:36:39 <joepie91> go do this
15:36:41 <joepie91> right now
15:36:42 <joepie91> seriously
15:36:45 <joepie91> this is just getting retarded
15:36:46 <norbert79> joepie91: Walk around normal people, who don't hang around the internet 24/7, then you will understand.
15:36:49 <lysobit> well... this is heated
15:36:58 <norbert79> joepie91: And no need to get emotional.
15:37:00 <joepie91> norbert79: in other words, you don't actually have any arguments
15:37:12 <joepie91> norbert79: I am not getting emotional, I am getting very frustrated because you're acting like an idiot
15:37:15 <lysobit> norbert79: in the 1990s the Internet was only used by people who are not "normal"
15:37:28 <lysobit> norbert79: I'm sure you'd have said the same thing about the Internet
15:37:37 <joepie91> norbert79: I am perfectly willing to have a constructive discussion, PROVIDED YOU COME WITH PROPERLY CONSTRUCTED ARGUMENTS.
15:37:39 <lysobit> norbert79: and would have LOLed at banks offering transactions via the internet
15:37:44 <joepie91> you're just throwing out rhetoric endlessly now
15:37:46 <norbert79> lysobit: exactly, but consider the price too... With BTC you have to pay the exchange rates, with Internet you had at least cheap options...
15:37:52 <joepie91> mixed in with ridicule and personal attacks
15:37:55 <joepie91> I mean, really, wtf
15:37:58 <joepie91> you know better than this
15:38:00 <lysobit> ""With BTC you have to pay the exchange rates"
15:38:06 <lysobit> not if you buy your stuff in actual bitcoins
15:38:15 <lysobit> and as I've showed, it's possible to buy anything in bitcoin
15:38:19 <lysobit> and as I've said
15:38:27 <lysobit> Bitcoin adaptation is increasing exponentially
15:38:34 <joepie91> also, norbert79, all your previous statements are completely full of shit
15:38:36 <lysobit> with ATM machines,e tc
15:38:37 <lysobit> etc*
15:38:54 <norbert79> lysobit: Machine.. Just one. And that article said it was in place in Canada.
15:38:56 <joepie91> "regulars aren't trusting it because it's digital" is bullshit - there are many (documented!) examples of this not being the case
15:39:13 <joepie91> "cracked systems" are not any more of a problem in Bitcoin than they are for anything else INCLUDING E-BANKING
15:39:16 <lysobit> norbert79: joepie91 has just linked you to handful of business that accept bitcoin IN-STORE
15:39:21 <joepie91> interest from regular people exists
15:39:30 <lysobit> norbert79: you don't need an ATM machine to transfer bitcoins, it's just one way
15:39:33 <norbert79> lysobit: Hmm, not really, I checked a few, Internet only...
15:39:34 <joepie91> there is a notable growth recently in small businesses and cafes accepting Bitcoin
15:39:41 <lysobit> norbert79: http://usebitcoins.info/
15:39:41 <joepie91> which is all nicely documented on coinmap and in various news articles
15:39:51 <joepie91> in ohter words
15:39:52 <joepie91> DO
15:39:52 <lysobit> norbert79: please explore http://usebitcoins.info/
15:39:53 <joepie91> YOUR
15:39:54 <joepie91> FUCKING
15:39:55 <joepie91> RESEARCH
15:39:56 <norbert79> lysobit: Ok, that is like more an info, thank you let's see
15:40:02 <joepie91> jesus fuck
15:40:15 <norbert79> joepie91: Ah, yes, and I am personal. And do you really expect rising interest with such an attitude? :)
15:40:23 <lysobit> http://usebitcoins.info/ lists 1270 businesses that use BTC
15:40:24 * joepie91 facepalms
15:40:56 <joepie91> norbert79; do you really expect me to be nice and friendly to you when you are being willfully ignorant?
15:41:13 <joepie91> newsflash, BTC adoption does not rely on how I respond to you
15:41:24 <joepie91> my response DOES rely on how you respond to me
15:41:29 <norbert79> joepie91: Don't forget, I am a geek, and open to many things, regular people are even more closed, compared to me
15:41:36 <joepie91> norbert79: no, they really aren't
15:41:43 <norbert79> joepie91: You would be surprised...
15:41:59 <joepie91> norbert79: oh come on, don't even bother with those "YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED" statements
15:42:05 <joepie91> I have discussions about BTC with random people on a daily fucking basis
15:42:10 <joepie91> I see less ignorance re: BTC in the conversation with those random people
15:42:14 <joepie91> than that you have expressed in the past 15 minutes
15:42:18 <joepie91> so, wtf
15:42:45 <joepie91> at least most people -try- to construct a proper argument
15:42:58 <joepie91> instead of just endlessly repeating rhetoric like you're talking to a brick wall
15:43:04 <joepie91> :|
15:43:06 <lysobit> reminds me of when I had an argument with someone 6 years ago, who believed that computers would never evolve from where they were now, and hard drives would never surpass 500gb, touchscreen will never be popular, etc :P
15:43:30 <joepie91> lysobit: pretty sure we had 1TB drives 6 years ago?
15:43:40 <lysobit> probably, but the argumenent was along those lings
15:43:41 <joepie91> enterprise drives, but still
15:43:43 <lysobit> argument*
15:43:49 <lysobit> lines*
15:43:58 <norbert79> hmm, I see exactly only 4 sites listed for my country, one is a well known asshole, a photographer, an apartment and the bitcoin site for my country.
15:44:06 <norbert79> let's see Germany
15:44:13 <lysobit> norbert79: well, 3 years ago, there were NONE!
15:44:24 <norbert79> Agreed
15:45:05 <lysobit> Bitcoin has grown an a shocking rate since it was first created, 2009
15:45:09 <lysobit> at*
15:45:59 <joepie91> norbert79: sure looks like there's no Bitcoin acceptance in Germany! http://i.imgur.com/SmoFWcJ.jpg
15:46:10 <joepie91> :|
15:46:58 <norbert79> I wouldn't also define it as wide-spread either...
15:47:16 * joepie91 facepalms
15:47:25 <norbert79> Although that Darmstadt is interesting, let me see
15:48:02 <norbert79> hmm, weird, are we using the same site? I am still at http://usebitcoins.info/
15:48:08 <norbert79> No hit for Darmstadt
15:48:08 <joepie91> norbert79; gosh, I wonder why there's not a store on every corner of every street, accepting this 4 year old currency with an until recently unclear regulatory framework, that works completely differently from any other currency currently commonly in use
15:48:14 <joepie91> no idea why that would be the case!
15:48:28 <norbert79> joepie91: Look, shall I mention the Euro again?
15:48:34 <joepie91> norbert79:
15:48:35 <joepie91> <joepie91>there is a notable growth recently in small businesses and cafes accepting Bitcoin
15:48:35 <joepie91> <joepie91>which is all nicely documented on coinmap and in various news articles
15:48:39 <joepie91> I told you
15:48:42 <joepie91> coinmap
15:48:49 <joepie91> this tells me how well you read what I say
15:49:06 <lysobit> It doesn't matter
15:49:15 <norbert79> you basically flood me with insults and info, you can't expect to be able read them all
15:49:19 <joepie91> norbert79; ah, I'm sure you can compare it to a government-endorsed and -enforced currency that is used for tax payments and wholesale replaces a previous currency
15:49:24 <joepie91> I'm sure that's a fair comparison
15:49:38 <joepie91> to a new currency with 0 official backing that started from scratch
15:49:39 <lysobit> The fact that 1270 business have adapted a 4-year old cryptocurrency is the context here
15:49:40 <joepie91> and did not replace something else
15:49:48 <joepie91> norbert79: actually, I can
15:49:59 <norbert79> but sxee that's my exact point here: It's volunteary... Just show me one person, who lives on regular pays feeling like buying these if they are happy if they can pay bills monthly?
15:50:08 <joepie91> norbert79: at the point where you get flooded with so much info that it takes time to read... THEN TAKE THE FUCKING TIME TO READ
15:50:09 <joepie91> instead of arguing on
15:50:11 <lysobit> The fact that venture capitalists and investors have invested $20m+ in Bitcoins alone is the context
15:50:12 <joepie91> as if it wasn't said
15:50:19 <joepie91> STOP fucking typing and read what people say
15:50:22 <lysobit> The fact that venture capitalists and investors have invested $20m+ in Bitcoins this year alone is the context*
15:50:31 <joepie91> otherwise you're just wasting your own and other peoples time
15:50:37 <lysobit> Hell, a Bitcoin _client_ received a $600k investment this year
15:50:37 <joepie91> by reiterating stuff that was already addressed
15:50:50 <norbert79> joepie91: What are you talking about? I just look around my place and see how on how such a low wage they live on...
15:51:03 <joepie91> ...........................................
15:51:11 <norbert79> joepie91: BTC costs 333 Euros... for some it's a monthly wage
15:51:19 <lysobit> The fact that a 4 year-old cryptocurrency isn't wide-spread does not matter
15:51:22 <joepie91> norbert79: you're not actually making any effort to read, are you?
15:51:27 <joepie91> lysobit, could you please stop talking for a moment
15:51:31 <joepie91> because I really want to get this across
15:51:34 <joepie91> just a minute
15:51:35 <lysobit> The fact that a 4 year-old cryptocurrency isn't wide-spread is not relevant to how wide-spread it will be 8 years down the line
15:51:46 cayce (cayce@cayce.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
15:52:09 <joepie91> <norbert79>you basically flood me with insults and info, you can't expect to be able read them all
15:52:10 <joepie91> <joepie91>norbert79: actually, I can
15:52:10 <joepie91> <joepie91>norbert79: at the point where you get flooded with so much info that it takes time to read... THEN TAKE THE FUCKING TIME TO READ
15:52:10 <joepie91> <joepie91>instead of arguing on
15:52:10 <joepie91> <joepie91>as if it wasn't said
15:52:10 <joepie91> <joepie91>STOP fucking typing and read what people say
15:52:10 <joepie91> <joepie91>otherwise you're just wasting your own and other peoples time
15:52:10 <joepie91> <joepie91>by reiterating stuff that was already addressed
15:52:11 <cayce> loggy, pointer?
15:52:11 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-11-15#T15-52-11
15:52:27 <norbert79> ok, I had enough joepie91
15:52:29 <cayce> okay so I was probably talking to myself then lol
15:52:34 <norbert79> You isnult me constantly
15:52:43 * joepie91 sighs
15:52:53 <joepie91> norbert79: have you stopped to consider WHY I am getting so pissed off?
15:52:54 <norbert79> I will stop this right now. BTC is expensive, and I will never be interested in it. Period.
15:53:06 <norbert79> joepie91: You started shouting at me and becoming personal.
15:53:11 <norbert79> joepie91: Not me
15:53:11 <joepie91> I mean, you're not even CONSIDERING that you might be doing something wrong here
15:53:13 <joepie91> you just keep on areguing
15:53:15 <joepie91> and arguing
15:53:15 <joepie91> and arguing
15:53:16 <joepie91> even now
15:53:23 <joepie91> norbert79: let me say it more explicitly
15:53:25 <norbert79> Do you understand now why I called you a zealot?
15:53:37 <cayce> that's a personal insult
15:53:48 <lysobit> Whether he's a zealot or not is irrelevant to the validity of his arguments
15:53:59 <lysobit> And being a zealot is not a valid argument against Bitcoins
15:54:06 <joepie91> norbert79: I get pissed off and start what you consider "insulting" because you are completely non-responsive to what I say, and it's as if I am talking to a brick wall, and this is the last hope I have of getting through to you and actually getting you to READ what I say
15:54:07 <joepie91> is it clear now?
15:54:14 <norbert79> Look, show me one person, who will ever want to buy something digital to pay with which costs almost as much as his/her monthly pay
15:54:16 <norbert79> ?
15:54:19 <joepie91> and you go on arguing
15:54:20 <joepie91> again
15:54:24 <norbert79> and the price is just rising!
15:54:46 <joepie91> norbert79; at this point you're just rapid-firing questions, statements and challenges - most of them incorrect - and ignoring anything anybody says
15:54:46 <cayce> norbert79:) drop it, until you review the discussion here.
15:54:59 <joepie91> you really don't seem interested in discussing this
15:55:04 <joepie91> just in displaying your own thoughts/opinions
15:55:25 <cayce> NP: [Lindi Ortega - I'm No Elvis Presley] [Little Red Boots] [950kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
15:55:30 <norbert79> I just don't understand how you would expect a wide-spread interest at such high prices.. Really... Maybe you earn tousands of euros monthly, but many don't!
15:55:37 <cayce> nope
15:55:37 <cayce> stop it
15:55:54 <lysobit> [15:54:14] <norbert79> Look, show me one person, who will ever want to buy something digital to pay with which costs almost as much as his/her monthly pay | How is one person paying for something very expensive with BTC proof that it will be wide-spread? The aim is for BTC to adapted for microtransactions not just massive transactions
15:56:06 <joepie91> norbert79: WHY ARE YOU IGNORING WHAT PEOPLE SAY.
15:56:10 <joepie91> jesus christ.
15:56:41 <norbert79> lysobit: How wopuld you expect that without any actual interest? Actually people using it? Even regular currencies suffer from this problem...
15:56:44 <joepie91> norbert79, go read: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths
15:57:00 <lysobit> norbert79: define "acual interests"
15:57:16 <norbert79> lysobit: Make a person go and buy 1 BTC which costs 333 Euro
15:57:27 <cayce> I'd say there's pretty solid interest right now, it's got a 5.5bn$ market cap
15:57:38 <cayce> why 1btc? why not 1/3 btc?
15:57:39 <joepie91> okay, observation: norbert79 is not interested in any kind of information that may show that his thoughts/opinions are incorrect or inaccurate, and is only interested in arguing his own points, bailing out on a topic when it looks like he may be incorrect
15:57:47 <joepie91> that, or cayce and I are on /ignore
15:57:50 <joepie91> which would be even more concerning
15:57:51 <cayce> maybe
15:57:57 <lysobit> norbert79: Okay. Did you know that I actually _bought_ Bitcoins 2 years ago to pay for web hosting?
15:58:06 <cayce> I've run into this before with him :/
15:58:08 <norbert79> joepie91: You are not, but I gave up the discussion with you, sorry
15:58:19 <cayce> norbert79:) that's because you're not discussing
15:58:22 <norbert79> lysobit: Do you have a family? Can you pay your bills?
15:58:28 <lysobit> norbert79: Do you think that all these vendors that accept Bitcoins have 0 people actually buying their stuff with Bitcoins?
15:58:29 <joepie91> norbert79; yes, and you know -why- you gave up the discussion? because it wasn't a discussion
15:58:36 <joepie91> norbert79: a discussion is a two-way street
15:58:44 <joepie91> it involves reading what the other participant(s) say
15:58:45 <joepie91> and responding to it
15:58:57 <norbert79> joepie91: Calling me an idiot (even not saying it) isn't really making me want to talk to you, sorry
15:59:05 <joepie91> not just blurting out your own thoughts and opinions on the matter and ignoring anything anybody says that isn't to your liking
15:59:10 <norbert79> joepie91: The discussion was constantly on how stupid I am
15:59:14 GHOSTnew has quit (User quit: Quitte)
15:59:15 <joepie91> no, it wasn't
15:59:18 <norbert79> joepie91: So stop analyzing me, ok :)
15:59:20 <lysobit> norbert79: you defined "actual interest" as "Make a person go and buy 1 BTC which costs 333 Euro". Now you are trying to define it as "paying your bills"?
15:59:23 <joepie91> and norbert79, even now you are ignoring what cayce said
15:59:28 <joepie91> even though he never made such statements/insults
15:59:32 <joepie91> so clearly the insults aren't the cause
15:59:35 <norbert79> lysobit: No, I am just asking.
15:59:40 <norbert79> lysobit: Do you have a family?
15:59:43 <lysobit> norbert79: I'm 18
15:59:49 <lysobit> norbert79: and I'm a student
15:59:52 <norbert79> I see
15:59:54 <norbert79> Well, I am not
16:00:01 <lysobit> And this is relevant to Bitcoins how exactly?
16:00:02 <norbert79> I am 34 and raising two
16:00:10 <joepie91> norbert79: even IF the insults were your real reason to ignore what I say - and I'm pretty sure it's just an after-the-fact justification - that doesn't explain why you are completely ignoring cayce
16:00:10 <norbert79> paying bills
16:00:17 <norbert79> earning just enough
16:00:18 <joepie91> and are still doing so
16:00:20 <cayce> norbert79:) and you can pay for groceries in bitcoin :)
16:00:23 <norbert79> still just a bit above the average
16:00:25 <joepie91> despite me having been pointing it out for a minute or so now
16:00:27 <lysobit> [15:59:20] <lysobit> norbert79: you defined "actual interest" as "Make a person go and buy 1 BTC which costs 333 Euro".
16:00:31 <norbert79> cayce: Not around my place
16:00:39 <lysobit> So where does bills play into your definition, norbert79?
16:00:50 <lysobit> Or having a family?
16:00:59 <lysobit> I don't see where this is going
16:01:04 <joepie91> norbert79: you are also constantly moving the goalposts in your discussion
16:01:07 <joepie91> and bringing in unrelated topics
16:01:08 <cayce> norbert79:) do you live in the woods? what's a relative location? Do you only have like a small family grocer?
16:01:10 <norbert79> lysobit: I have no money for something which I can't really use for helping my or my familys life
16:01:11 GHOSTnew (GHOSTnew@GHOSTnew.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
16:01:16 <joepie91> cayce: I think I'm going to make a fallacy bingo card
16:01:22 <joepie91> it's like bullshit bingo, except with fallacies
16:01:24 <norbert79> cayce: No, I live in Hungary if you must actually know
16:01:34 <cayce> joepie91:) you should make a deck, a la cards against humanity
16:01:39 <norbert79> cayce: And I often go to Germany too
16:01:47 <joepie91> cayce: nah, the point would be crossing off all fallacies committed
16:01:53 <joepie91> I'd probably be shouting "bingo" right about now
16:02:14 <joepie91> actually, let me grab the reference card
16:02:21 <cayce> norbert79:) ahh, okay. Well, for sure germany supports much bitcoin usage. It's most certainly usable in hungary too if you can convert into $localcurrency
16:02:32 <joepie91> strawman, check
16:02:41 <lysobit> [16:01:11] <norbert79> lysobit: I have no money for something which I can't really use for helping my or my familys life | 1) I just linked you to an article showing how an couple made a 101-day trip around the world, paying for rent and fuel and _all_ their bills with Bitcoins. 2) Just because YOU can't pay your bills with it now, does not mean that you will never be able to. I'm not sure if
16:02:42 <lysobit> you realise this, but time is linear!
16:02:42 <joepie91> false cause, likely check
16:02:43 <norbert79> cayce: Well, the shop in Damrmstadt is only for buying pot...
16:02:58 <joepie91> appeal to emotion, that would be the family argument kind of
16:02:59 <norbert79> lysobit: Don't forget, the current price is just rising...
16:03:06 <norbert79> lysobit: Which is expected
16:03:07 <joepie91> ad hominem, check
16:03:11 <norbert79> lysobit: Right?
16:03:15 <joepie91> to quoque, check
16:03:22 <lysobit> norbert79: please answer my points
16:03:28 <norbert79> What points?
16:03:29 <joepie91> personal incredulity, check
16:03:31 <lysobit> norbert79: instead of asking me further questions
16:03:38 <lysobit> [16:02:42] <lysobit> [16:01:11] <norbert79> lysobit: I have no money for something which I can't really use for helping my or my familys life | 1) I just linked you to an article showing how an couple made a 101-day trip around the world, paying for rent and fuel and _all_ their bills with Bitcoins. 2) Just because YOU can't pay your bills with it now, does not mean that you will never be able
16:03:38 <lysobit> to. I'm not sure if you realise this, but time is linear!
16:03:42 <joepie91> special pleading, check
16:03:52 <joepie91> loaded question, not sure
16:04:02 <joepie91> burden of proof, implied
16:04:05 <norbert79> lysobit: You didn't seem to be reading me either... I raise two children.
16:04:13 * cayce shouts bingo! to get the prize
16:04:15 <joepie91> bandwagon, check
16:04:21 <norbert79> lysobit: What do you think people earn monthly around here?
16:04:25 <joepie91> appeal to popularity, check
16:04:28 <lysobit> norbert79: the fact that you have two children is relevant to the argument "will bitcoin ever be wide-spread?" how?
16:04:36 <joepie91> genetic, half-check
16:04:41 <lysobit> You're simply not making an actual argumenet
16:04:43 <lysobit> argument*
16:04:43 <joepie91> black or white, check
16:04:47 <lysobit> you're just making generic statements
16:04:48 <norbert79> lysobit: Like being able to at least buying ANY
16:04:49 <lysobit> about your life
16:04:50 <cayce> norbert79:) income is not relevant, access is relevant. You can always buy .1 btc if that's what you can afford.
16:05:00 <joepie91> anecdotal, definitely check
16:05:01 <norbert79> cayce: But why would I want to buy even .1?
16:05:06 <joepie91> texas sharpshooter, check
16:05:11 <joepie91> BINGO!
16:05:19 <norbert79> cayce: also I am not even sure that's possible, or wasn't when I alst checked
16:05:22 <joepie91> cayce, for reference, this is a useful list: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
16:05:25 <norbert79> cayce: Minimum was 1 BTC
16:05:25 <cayce> norbert79:) I don't know, if .1 is around your income level you can buy all the stuff you normally do
16:05:32 <joepie91> wat?
16:05:40 <joepie91> norbert79: minimum where?
16:06:01 <lysobit> norbert79: your response to my two points (1 and 2) about bitcoin have been "lysobit: You didn't seem to be reading me either... I raise two children.". This doesn't tell me anything. Form a coherent argument about why my two points are invalid, feel free to use your children as an example, but actually reference my two points in your arguments
16:06:14 <cayce> If I still had a btc I'd just send you some for lulz. 20 bucks worth isn't gonna break my back.
16:06:18 <norbert79> lysobit: Do you have a family on your own?
16:06:37 <lysobit> norbert79: Don't ask me a question. Give me a retort.
16:06:38 <cayce> you're just creating personal reasons why you can't
16:06:42 <lysobit> [16:02:42] <lysobit> [16:01:11] <norbert79> lysobit: I have no money for something which I can't really use for helping my or my familys life | 1) I just linked you to an article showing how an couple made a 101-day trip around the world, paying for rent and fuel and _all_ their bills with Bitcoins. 2) Just because YOU can't pay your bills with it now, does not mean that you will never be able
16:06:43 <lysobit> to. I'm not sure if you realise this, but time is linear!
16:06:46 <cayce> make a giant hill for yourself and yes you'll never do it
16:07:03 <norbert79> lysobit: And what if I am not interested in making a trip? :)
16:07:05 <lysobit> Asking me if I have a family is not a retort
16:07:17 * cayce backflips
16:07:33 <norbert79> lysobit: Seriously, when you have a family you have different priorities...
16:07:33 <cayce> oh joepie91 thanks for link, sorry
16:07:53 <joepie91> cayce: I think this is the first time I've been able to check or half-check over half of the fallacies on the reference card in a single discussion
16:08:04 <cayce> joepie91:) impressive
16:08:11 <lysobit> norbert79: Do I really have to spell it out for you? The fact that "a couple made a 101-day trip around the world, paying for rent and fuel and _all_ their bills with Bitcoins" means that you can also do this locally, without making a trip. and just because YOU can't pay your bills with it now, does not mean that you will never be able to. I'm not sure if you realise this, but time is linear!
16:08:12 <cayce> joepie91:) one for the record books
16:08:25 <joepie91> cayce: yes :|
16:08:26 <norbert79> lysobit: Also you didn't share in which country...
16:08:34 <joepie91> cayce; also, for reference: http://howtobuybitcoins.info/hu.html
16:08:39 <lysobit> norbert79: you're not actually giving any reasons why you wouldn't be ABLE TO pay your bills with in the future
16:08:45 <lysobit> with it*
16:08:50 <joepie91> I'm probably going to be doing something else in a bit since this discussion is going nowhere
16:08:58 <norbert79> lysobit: Oh well you are probably not at all aware how things go on around here :)
16:09:00 <joepie91> so having a list of hungary-supporting exchanges handy might be useful
16:09:01 <lysobit> norbert79: the country is a relevant. it s a proof-of-concept that it can be done
16:09:09 <lysobit> "lysobit: Oh well you are probably not at all aware how things go on around here :)"
16:09:10 <lysobit> oh ok
16:09:14 <norbert79> lysobit: WHere do you live again?
16:09:14 <lysobit> you win
16:09:19 <lysobit> I just read your mind
16:09:22 <joepie91> this question also still hasn't been answered:
16:09:24 <joepie91> <norbert79>cayce: Minimum was 1 BTC
16:09:24 <joepie91> <joepie91>norbert79: minimum where?
16:09:30 <lysobit> and now I am aware of all the things that can on around there
16:09:31 <lysobit> :)
16:09:54 <norbert79> lysobit: Ahha, so becoming sarcastic will answer my questions... :)
16:09:57 <norbert79> right
16:10:06 <lysobit> norbert79: asking me questions is not a valid argument
16:10:17 <lysobit> norbert79: stop asking me questions and give me an actual reason
16:10:19 <norbert79> lysobit: Why not answering then?
16:10:22 <lysobit> [16:08:59] <norbert79> lysobit: Oh well you are probably not at all aware how things go on around here :)
16:10:26 <joepie91> lysobit: I'm sure that's a fallacy but it's not in my reference card...
16:10:33 <joepie91> this reference card is insufficient
16:10:33 <joepie91> :|
16:10:41 <cayce> joepie91:) that's a solid list :D (sorry, was pouring another coffee... I'm out of beans for french press :((( enjoying last cups today)
16:11:09 <lysobit> [16:08:59] <norbert79> lysobit: Oh well you are probably not at all aware how things go on around here :) < Stop making generic statements like this or "Do you have a family?" and give me a reason why the actual concept of Bitcoin will not be adapted for bill-paying
16:11:17 <norbert79> lysobit: Ok, this is pointless... Really... You live in your own world, but not interested anything outside. I ASKED you about your living place because you seem not being able at all imaging, that life can be way different than where you live...
16:11:29 <lysobit> norbert79: just get to the point
16:11:42 <norbert79> lysobit: I am trying but you are refusing to answer :)
16:11:45 <cayce> norbert79:) you're just making reasons why you can't. All you need is one reason why you can.
16:11:57 <norbert79> cayce: But why do I want to? :)
16:12:03 <norbert79> cayce: Seriously...
16:12:05 <lysobit> norbert79: just get to the point and tell me WHY your way of life is not compatible with Bitcoins. My life is irrelevant.
16:12:15 <cayce> norbert79:) Sounds as though you do not want to... so why is it still being discussed?
16:12:45 <norbert79> cayce: Because I showed at least some interest, but not anymore you see. And people won't either especially if prices rocket high sky... :)
16:12:48 <norbert79> Thsi simple
16:12:51 <lysobit> norbert79: asking me questions about my life is irrelevant to your argument
16:12:53 <norbert79> This
16:13:08 <lysobit> norbert79: just tell me about your case and why its not compatible with bitcoins
16:13:17 <joepie91> norbert79: if you have a genuine interest in BTC, a bunch of assholes in an IRC channel won't make that interest go away
16:13:23 <norbert79> lysobit: Tell em where you live and I will
16:13:27 <lysobit> sigh
16:13:28 <lysobit> ok
16:13:30 <lysobit> I life in the UK
16:13:30 <norbert79> lysobit: Quit pro quo
16:13:32 <cayce> norbert79:) I suspect it will be picked up heavily in africa. many do not make a lot of money there, but that does not restrict them from buying .005 btc and spending it on things...
16:13:32 <lysobit> live*
16:13:33 <norbert79> Ok
16:13:34 <joepie91> cayce, y u no XMPP
16:13:36 <cayce> norbert79:) same for you
16:13:41 <lysobit> now can you tell me why Bitcoins won't work for you, norbert79?
16:13:48 <cayce> joepie91:) sorry, tired of people yakking at me on it :P
16:13:50 <norbert79> What do you pay for ..
16:13:52 <norbert79> lets say...
16:14:03 <norbert79> Ok, food
16:14:07 Riddler (Riddler@5FD71087.11DC8350.1A26DB37.IP) has joined #crytocc
16:14:13 <lysobit> I pay for food, yup.
16:14:13 <joepie91> cayce: but :(
16:14:13 <Riddler> hello?
16:14:19 <joepie91> .welcome Riddler
16:14:20 <botpie91> Riddler: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
16:14:21 <norbert79> lysobit: But how much?
16:14:21 <cayce> joepie91:) yes yes on it
16:14:31 <lysobit> norbert79: £4 per meal
16:14:36 <Riddler> lysobit!
16:14:37 <norbert79> lysobit: I see...
16:14:39 <cayce> I pay 30usd per week for food
16:14:42 <cayce> is that alot?
16:14:46 <cayce> a lot *
16:14:51 <lysobit> norbert79: go on.
16:15:06 <norbert79> lysobit: Ok, let me compare things different. Let's say take your netto pay monthly. How much petrol could you buy from that money after taxes?
16:15:18 <norbert79> lysobit: We use this comparsion a lot elsewhere
16:15:21 <lysobit> I don't buy petrol
16:15:23 <lysobit> I use public transport
16:15:30 <norbert79> lysobit: But let's take that as an example
16:15:36 <lysobit> I pay £40/m per month for transport
16:15:44 <norbert79> lysobit: You are aware how much octaine 95 costs in UK, right?
16:15:50 <lysobit> norbert79: I can't take that as an example because I don't use petrol
16:15:51 <lysobit> norbert79: no
16:16:11 <norbert79> lysobit: Well, since you were kind enough to feed me with links, I will do the same
16:16:15 <lysobit> Again, I really don't see where this is going.
16:16:20 <norbert79> lysobit: Just wait up
16:16:37 <lysobit> Please tell me how all this means that Bitcoin won't be wide-spread in the future.
16:16:43 <lysobit> or can't be
16:16:44 <cayce> ladies and gents, watch as a straw man is constructed over in the uk
16:17:11 <norbert79> lysobit: http://www.whatprice.co.uk/petrol-prices/recent-petrol-prices.html - here
16:17:17 <norbert79> 1.3 Pounds as I see
16:17:24 <norbert79> per litre, right?
16:17:27 <lysobit> norbert79: okay, and?
16:17:46 <norbert79> now take your netto pay ( the one after taxes) and divide by that
16:17:54 <norbert79> and I am curious about your result
16:17:56 <cayce> you can do maths, something around 30 litres of petrol
16:18:04 <cayce> (little less I think)
16:18:10 <norbert79> I will share my average for a year too
16:18:11 <cayce> what purpose does this exercise serve
16:18:16 <norbert79> jsut do it
16:18:26 <cayce> for a year?
16:18:29 <cayce> why a year, why not a month
16:18:38 <cayce> why bring incompatible sizes
16:18:39 <norbert79> Month then if it's more valuable to you
16:18:43 <norbert79> montht hen
16:18:45 <norbert79> then
16:18:47 <cayce> you brought a month in
16:18:48 <cayce> not me
16:18:55 <norbert79> Yes, you are right, month then
16:19:30 <norbert79> I am done, what is your result?
16:20:49 <cayce> locally... I get 10 gallons
16:20:58 <norbert79> I took litres
16:21:02 <cayce> but I don't even ride public transit, I own only a bike
16:21:08 <norbert79> you could only buy 10 gallons of petrol monthly?
16:21:12 <joepie91> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=219108.0
16:21:13 <norbert79> from your pay??
16:21:13 <cayce> 37.54 litres
16:21:28 <cayce> I'm using lyso's pay, 40/mo
16:21:38 <cayce> this discussion doesn't apply to me
16:21:57 <joepie91> looks like there's no interest in BTC in Hungary at all
16:21:57 <joepie91> they had to change venues for the Budapest meetup
16:21:57 <joepie91> because there were so many signups they couldn't accomodate otherwise
16:21:57 joepie91 has quit (User quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
16:21:59 <norbert79> I meant income divided by fuel price (1 litre octaine 95)
16:22:01 joepie91 (joepie91@cryto-3E6002EF.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #crytocc
16:22:01 <cayce> I don't use any gasoline powered transport (not even public transit), and I don't get a monthly income
16:22:16 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
16:22:16 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-11-15#T16-22-16
16:22:17 <joepie91> <joepie91>https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=219108.0
16:22:17 <cayce> none of this applies to me
16:22:17 <joepie91> <joepie91>looks like there's no interest in BTC in Hungary at all
16:22:17 <joepie91> <joepie91>they had to change venues for the Budapest meetup
16:22:19 <joepie91> <joepie91>because there were so many signups they couldn't accomodate otherwise
16:22:30 <norbert79> I am actually waiting for lysobit
16:22:33 <cayce> hahaha
16:22:37 <cayce> joepie91:) <3
16:22:42 <norbert79> As I assume he has a real job and has a valid income
16:22:48 <cayce> that reminds me of the slovak hacker conference they just had
16:22:58 <lysobit> [16:17:47] <norbert79> now take your netto pay ( the one after taxes) and divide by that | I don't have a "netto" pay. I'm a student and I live on loans. 90% of my money is actually in my Bitcoin wallet
16:23:03 <cayce> I saw it cause violet blue was there, she did coverage
16:23:07 <cayce> it was AWESOME
16:23:35 <joepie91> or this... http://bitkoins.com/discussion/13999/mark-zuckerberg-talks-about-bitcoin-in-hungary-/p1
16:23:36 <cayce> good idea
16:23:41 <cayce> cause it doesn't make money in the bank
16:23:42 <cayce> lol
16:23:57 <norbert79> lysobit: I see, well, I also live on loans in some way... But you see ok, let's just take an average German... IT, monthly pay is 3500 €
16:24:08 <norbert79> monthly income for my country is in avergae
16:24:09 <norbert79> hang on
16:24:12 <cayce> sounds like lots of litres
16:24:22 <cayce> why do litres of gas matter :/
16:24:23 <lysobit> right
16:24:24 <norbert79> that's brutto
16:24:36 <norbert79> cayce: It's a fair comparsion as fuel prices differ
16:24:39 <lysobit> I still don't see where this is going so please get to the point
16:24:43 <norbert79> and you are not revealing your real pay this way
16:24:58 <cayce> oh so you're attempting to create a poor man's exchange rate
16:25:01 <norbert79> compared to the cheesburger calculation fuel makes more sense
16:25:03 <cayce> could just say that
16:25:09 <joepie91> norbert79: it doesn't
16:25:14 <joepie91> fuel taxation differs massively
16:25:16 <joepie91> across countries
16:25:28 <cayce> we tax the shit out of gas in my state, specifically my state
16:25:36 <cayce> highest fuel costs in the nation iirc
16:25:43 <joepie91> france and NL are roughly equally wealthy on average, yet there is an insane difference in fuel price due to taxation differences
16:25:45 <norbert79> taxes are very high in my place too, higher than over there
16:25:53 <joepie91> norbert79: so don't use fuel
16:26:00 <joepie91> but something that does not carry additional tax
16:26:19 <joepie91> (which is probably why the cheeseburger index exists)
16:26:20 <lysobit> .bitcoin
16:26:21 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $429.50, 1 BTC = €337.00
16:26:25 <cayce> why not just say "this is my monthly income, this is my monthly expenditures, here's what I have left over for btc"?
16:26:45 <cayce> seems easier >_>
16:26:52 <norbert79> cheesburger is taxed too.. VAT, price for the logistics, roadway prices, etc
16:27:09 <joepie91> (in Luxembourg, gas is even cheaper... even though wealthier)
16:27:10 <lysobit> I can haz cheesburger?
16:27:15 <joepie91> norbert79: yes, but that is a generic tax
16:27:18 <joepie91> that applies to all goods
16:27:26 <norbert79> differs country by country
16:27:27 <joepie91> thus representative for purchasing power
16:27:35 <joepie91> irrelevant
16:27:37 <Riddler> Question Gentlemen. Why has anonymous chosen not to help or provide support for the people in the Philippians??????
16:27:56 <joepie91> a generic tax is much more representative of cost of living in a country than resource-specific tax
16:28:01 <norbert79> Ok, I give up... Right, it is irrelevant that I pay the highest VAT above Europe... right
16:28:04 <norbert79> 27%
16:28:12 <norbert79> for everything
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16:28:47 <joepie91> norbert79: yes, because it's for everything
16:28:58 <joepie91> thus representative for your overall cost of living
16:29:00 <norbert79> Germany uses a 3 level VAT
16:29:05 <norbert79> Hungary uses 1
16:29:12 <norbert79> irrelevant
16:29:13 <norbert79> riight
16:29:19 <Riddler> sorry I'll rephrase my question joepie91
16:29:22 <cayce> straw man
16:29:24 * joepie91 sighs
16:29:37 <joepie91> norbert79: we are now straying SO far off the topic that it's not even clear what all this has to do with BTC anymore
16:29:41 <joepie91> just make your point already
16:29:49 <joepie91> instead of bringing in 3461346 environment factors
16:29:53 <cayce> I have been waiting 30m for a point
16:29:56 <cayce> not found one yet
16:30:03 <joepie91> Riddler: the question appears to violate the channel rules
16:30:05 <joepie91> read the channel rules
16:30:08 <joepie91> they are in the topic
16:30:09 <norbert79> Not interested anymore, like you aren't interested in my opinion. You are happy with BTC, and everyone else is an idiot.. That's your point
16:30:20 <norbert79> Ok, bye.. I get back to my irrelavant life
16:30:23 <cayce> now you're personally attacking?
16:30:24 <norbert79> to my irrelevant family
16:30:28 <cayce> way to go out with a bang
16:30:29 norbert79 has parted #crytocc (None)
16:30:57 <joepie91> well then
16:31:17 <joepie91> I think that is what could be classified as a 'ragequit'
16:31:35 <cayce> oh did he leave I keep forgetting I have join/part turned off
16:31:36 <cayce> lol
16:31:47 <joepie91> yes, he did
16:32:15 <DrWhat> ILY JP
16:32:33 <DrWhat> But im a internet junkie
16:33:03 <Riddler> Why is their few support for the people in the Philippians by the Redcross?
16:33:21 <DrWhat> O_O
16:33:23 <Riddler> is that okay to ask Joepie?
16:33:27 <DrWhat> Isnt redcross for the homeless?
16:33:53 <DrWhat> is philipeans homless?
16:34:12 <cayce> yes
16:34:19 <cayce> redcross is disaster relief
16:34:26 <DrWhat> ^
16:34:28 <cayce> and they are helping
16:34:43 <joepie91> Riddler: you can ask that, but this probably isn't the most relevant channel still
16:34:44 <joepie91> :P
16:34:56 <DrWhat> And misleading
16:35:29 <DrWhat> "In order to et the correct answer, you must ask the correct question!"
16:35:53 <DrWhat> I didnt want to retrive channel Modes
16:35:56 <DrWhat> -.-
16:36:07 * DrWhat slaps #crytocc
16:36:43 * lysobit slaps DrWhat around a bit with a large trout
16:36:58 * cayce slaps DrWhat around with a samsung magnet
16:38:03 * DrWhat slaps cayce around a bit with a large Anac ø nÐa
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16:39:15 <joepie91> DrWhat: I feel like you're confusing red cross and salvation army
16:39:27 <DrWhat> http://www.redcross.org.uk/
16:39:28 <DrWhat> Nope
16:39:38 <joepie91> hm.
16:40:18 <DrWhat> brb
16:40:44 * DrWhat is aw a y "You hate this don't you." L o g: on P a ger: off
16:42:21 <complex> must be better at sneaking irl
16:42:26 Riddler has parted #crytocc ()
16:43:38 <complex> felt like a guy trying to commit a mass shooting spree when i was trying to sneak into a place without authorization, seeking for a printer that worked
16:44:12 <joepie91> haha
16:44:19 <joepie91> also, complex, congratulations
16:44:31 <joepie91> (on your new entry on an NSA watchlist, keywords "mass shooting spree")
16:44:38 <joepie91> :P
16:45:27 * cayce grins
16:47:14 <complex> really?
16:47:32 <complex> btw, i figured out that with a simplesimple caesar cipher you get through all that kind of shit
16:48:30 <complex> everyone paranoid enough can get through such things
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16:54:08 <complex> btw i didnt know IRC was surveillanced, but i assume the channel maybe is?
16:54:32 <joepie91> complex: everything is monitored..
16:57:25 <cayce> if they're pulling data from google's inter-datacenter private fiber links, you can bet irc is
16:57:50 <cayce> mostly because it's fucking easy (since this chan is logged, natch)
17:02:42 <cayce> soon: btc
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17:22:12 <probably> oh look joepie91 op'd himself
17:22:16 <probably> lelelel
17:33:13 <complex> bitcoin is probably tracked as well
17:34:12 <iceTwy> probably: ping
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17:49:37 <joepie91> complex: ?
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17:53:51 <lysobit> I totally PRISM'd Bitcoin
17:54:08 <lysobit> I have a database of every Bitcoin transaction ever
17:55:03 <cayce> shit
17:55:14 <cayce> somebody's gonna find out about the hookers and blo I paid for with btc
18:03:06 <Ari> lol
18:03:10 Riddler (Riddler@5FD71087.11DC8350.1A26DB37.IP) has joined #crytocc
18:03:12 <Riddler> hello
18:03:15 <Ari> "PRISM'D"
18:03:17 <Ari> lol
18:05:37 <joepie91> "Jeremy Hammond not allowed upon release from jail to associate w/ any hacking-related or civil disobedience-related organization" (https://twitter.com/kgosztola/status/401399050127560704)
18:05:41 <joepie91> actuakky
18:05:44 <joepie91> actually *
18:05:47 <joepie91> we have a tweetbot here
18:05:48 <joepie91> .tw
18:05:49 <botpie91> joepie91: Give me a link, a username, or a tweet id
18:05:52 <joepie91> gosh thanks
18:06:00 <joepie91> .tw https://twitter.com/kgosztola/status/401399050127560704
18:06:01 <botpie91> Jeremy Hammond not allowed upon release from jail to associate w/ any hacking-related or civil disobedience-related organization (@kgosztola)
18:06:26 <joepie91> read that and think it over for a second
18:07:54 grows (asdf@cryto-70E29873.torservers.net) has joined #crytocc
18:09:14 <cayce> he's banned from activism? wat
18:09:24 probably has quit (Ping timeout)
18:09:30 <joepie91> cayce: yes, exactly
18:09:31 <cayce> but, if he went to jail, that makes sense
18:09:36 <joepie91> no, it doesn't
18:09:37 <cayce> we strip people of their rights when you go to jail
18:09:43 <cayce> is he in US?
18:09:48 <joepie91> that it's common practice doesn't mean it makes sense
18:09:49 <joepie91> yes
18:10:09 <cayce> yeah, if you go to jail for felony, you pretty nearly lose citizenship at this point
18:10:34 <cayce> can't vote, can't own weapons, can't get loans from govt (for school)
18:10:57 <cayce> can't get free healthcare from govt for being poor
18:10:57 <cayce> etc
18:11:47 <cayce> which exchange should I move my graph to? it's been on mtgox, but maybe coinbase or bitstamp is better
18:11:56 <cayce> mtgoxusd => what
18:11:57 <iceTwy> jerry hammond.. sentenced to 10 years
18:12:00 <iceTwy> seriously
18:12:41 <cayce> I dunno what he did, but we put people in jail longer for stupid shit than pedophiles or murderers
18:12:48 <iceTwy> ^
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18:13:02 <cayce> stupid shit aka stuff that should be handled as a civil case with fines
18:13:05 <lysobit> He gave WikiLeaks Stratfor
18:13:13 <cayce> oh, yeah okay
18:13:21 <lysobit> Note the Judge's husband in this case is a Stratfor client
18:13:24 <cayce> there's a bunch of stuff we jail for that should be fined
18:13:25 <cayce> :/
18:13:41 <cayce> I want all drug convictions to be fines
18:13:50 <joepie91> cayce: s/pedophiles/child abusers/
18:13:51 <cayce> (until we're ready to start legalizing)
18:14:16 <cayce> joepie91:) like the one guy said, we punish people who keep video longer than those doing it
18:14:27 <iceTwy> SUCCESSSSSSSSSSSSS
18:14:29 <iceTwy> http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/11/encrypt-all-the-worlds-web-traffic-internet-architects-propose/
18:14:31 <iceTwy> .title
18:14:32 <botpie91> iceTwy: Internet architects propose encrypting all the world’s Web traffic | Ars Technica
18:14:38 <cayce> well yeah
18:14:42 <cayce> is that the ietf policy statement?
18:14:45 <cayce> or who
18:14:48 <joepie91> cayce: while correct, that does not mean "pedophiels" are prosecuted, just those who possess cp
18:14:51 <joepie91> who may or may not be pedophiles
18:14:54 <joepie91> but also may or may not wear glasses
18:15:00 <joepie91> and they're also not prosecuted for wearing glasses
18:15:01 <joepie91> :P
18:15:24 <joepie91> that's honestly the only positive point in the whole pedophilia scare; people aren't being locked up -yet- for sexual orientation alone
18:15:36 <joepie91> though it's not far off
18:15:37 <cayce> yeah but the people who make the news here are usually "guy had 70 gigs of cp" not "young boy who sent dick pic to girl, girls parents didn't approve" though that happens to
18:15:53 <joepie91> cayce: yes, but that is something very different from "pedophiles"
18:16:01 <cayce> not legally here
18:16:10 <joepie91> which is a group that doubtlessly encompasses people that have never touched cp nor abused a kid
18:16:16 <joepie91> yet still have the orientation
18:16:30 <cayce> well we even lump in shit like people wanking in public
18:16:34 <cayce> which is silly, but also silly
18:16:34 <cayce> lol
18:17:02 <iceTwy> cayce: yes, that is an IETF policy statement
18:18:05 <cayce> iceTwy:) encrypting specifically or just late coverage on the other one where they said privacy by design is now the idea
18:18:08 *** grows is now known as probably
18:18:16 * cayce lazy
18:19:01 <cayce> oh fucking
18:19:04 <cayce> dude don't be dense
18:19:08 <cayce> it's just coverage of http/2
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18:19:40 <cayce> http/2 is based on spdy/4, so of course it's end to end encrypted
18:19:57 <cayce> and there was a mail on HN about how encryption would work
18:20:13 <cayce> they're basically proposing all encrypted, only, which is problematic with current UI for certificates
18:20:18 <cayce> but a UI problem is not a standard problem
18:20:31 <Riddler_> hello
18:20:48 <cayce> uis can be rewritten, standards are a bit more complicated
18:20:58 <cayce> amended, but...
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18:24:23 <iceTwy> cayce: though the guys who are commenting the article are making a point
18:24:27 <iceTwy> on the*
18:24:35 <cayce> fuck, you read comments?
18:24:36 <cayce> get out
18:24:45 <iceTwy> obviously if you do rely on SSL/TLS for encrypting, then.. lol
18:24:53 <iceTwy> cayce: comments on Ars are usually constructive
18:28:10 <cayce> it's perfectly reasonable to rely on tls for encryption, that's the fucking point
18:28:39 <cayce> to rely on it versus a nation state based actor, however, would require some changes to how certificates are handled
18:28:50 <iceTwy> yes
18:28:55 <iceTwy> but until then, it's not reliable
18:29:47 <cayce> browser side pinning helps
18:29:58 <cayce> or something like convergence being more widely deployed
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18:39:42 <joepie91> TLS is fine
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18:41:24 <joepie91> the CA model is not
18:41:24 <cayce> ^
18:41:24 <cayce> with a couple more ciphers, tls is great
18:41:24 <cayce> 1.2+ is very well designed and works well... CA's on the other hand...
18:49:27 <DrWhat> joepie91 you know what you could make
18:49:36 <DrWhat> A Teamspeak Musicbot
18:49:53 <DrWhat> "standalone"
18:50:39 <complex> lulz my report in physics was not accepted
18:51:11 <complex> i wrote 'percent' instead of %, i forgot to write the unit of the first term in an interval, etc.
18:51:32 <complex> "the report has potential to become much better"
18:51:56 <DrWhat> you got declined for putting more effort into writing a word and not its asermecric symbol
18:52:32 <complex> no i got declined because my stupid labpartner asks and appears like a monkey
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19:05:12 <lysobit> Jesse?
19:10:49 <joepie91> DrWhat: asermecric?
19:10:54 <joepie91> I have no idea what word that's meant to be
19:10:55 <joepie91> :p
19:10:58 <joepie91> also
19:11:00 <joepie91> http://www.enricozini.org/2011/cazzeggio/python-gzip/
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20:31:01 <lysobit> .bitcoin
20:31:02 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $420.75, 1 BTC = €325.02
20:31:28 <lysobit> starting to crash/stabilize
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20:35:29 <joepie91> interesting way of wording it :)
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20:41:29 monod (~pmpf@cryto-7D8D233F.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #crytocc
20:41:38 <joepie91> ohai monod
20:41:39 <joepie91> !
20:41:46 <monod> hey there!
20:41:56 <monod> I jump in sometimes...
20:42:23 <monod> jump back* in
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21:04:44 <monod> how can it be possible that if you delete fb's cookies you're still not logged out?
21:08:16 Pandora (Pandora@cryto-9B07CF8C.ighost.se) has joined #crytocc
21:10:44 <joepie91> monod: http://mashable.com/2011/09/02/supercookies-internet-privacy/
21:11:24 <monod> oh argh, reading now.
21:23:09 <joepie91> at least that would be my guess
21:23:35 <monod> might be.
21:23:54 <monod> I missed your quick links though, lol :D
21:42:06 pzuraq (pzuraq@cryto-D2623541.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #crytocc
21:42:21 <monod> cya guys! going to bed!
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22:07:34 <DEEPendence_> ragazi
22:10:43 <iceTwy> hey there DEEPendence_
22:10:48 <iceTwy> .welcome DEEPendence_
22:10:49 <botpie91> DEEPendence_: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
22:12:01 <probably> without calculator, find the answer to 67 x 82
22:12:02 <probably> anyone?
22:19:31 <ElectRo`> 134 + 5360 :)
22:19:54 <ElectRo`> now i must rest to recover
22:23:02 <probably> joepie91, you there?
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22:24:21 <DEEPendence_> hello
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22:42:12 <joepie91> probably: kind of
22:42:20 <joepie91> 67 * 82
22:42:55 <joepie91> ((2 * 3 * 82) * 10) + (7 * 82)
22:43:08 <joepie91> this is pretty basic :|
22:43:29 <joepie91> for easier calc, (100 * 82) - (33 * 82)
22:44:04 <joepie91> you'll only have to do 3 * 82 then, and then add that result itself to itself but multiplied by ten
22:44:16 <joepie91> do people not learn calculator-less calculations nowadays? :|
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23:18:02 <complex> who is jeremy hammond?
23:18:27 <complex> didnt know he was part of lulzsec
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23:27:46 <Crypted> Herro.
23:53:25 <iceTwy> oh my god
23:53:33 <iceTwy> GNU screen is the worst piece of shit I have seen
23:53:36 <iceTwy> in an EXTREMELY long time
23:54:29 <iceTwy> btw joepie91
23:54:34 <iceTwy> I prefer calculating it the following way:
23:54:56 <iceTwy> (6 * 10 + 7) * (8 * 10 + 2)
23:56:01 <iceTwy> = 460 + 120 + 640 + 14
23:56:30 <iceTwy> = 1100 + 120 + 14
23:56:38 <iceTwy> = 1234
23:56:55 <iceTwy> which is false
23:56:58 <iceTwy> how nice