Cryto! 5 November 2013

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00:37:18 <DrWhat> mama
00:37:18 <DrWhat> MK_FG
00:37:20 <DrWhat> MK_FG
00:37:23 <DrWhat> I love you
00:37:25 <DrWhat> <3
00:37:41 <mama> O_O
00:37:43 <DrWhat> Do you want to dong
00:38:01 <mama> ah! typos
00:38:14 <DrWhat> Ill puke your pines
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00:55:28 <probably> xD
00:56:20 <Macbeth> ?
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02:33:14 <Anonymous922>
06:11:08 loggy (loggy@5C4B2CE4.B8E60B3B.FD9B6484.IP) has joined #crytocc
06:11:08 <> Topic for #crytocc is: Cryto Coding Collective | THIS IS A PUBLICALLY LOGGED CHANNEL. |, | Rules: no Anonymous, no cracking, no drama | Now, with more dpk! | Cryto Research: | RIP Aaron Swartz
06:11:08 <> Users on #crytocc: loggy &botpie91 Okapi grows joepie91 zxcvbnm Zekka @SpaghettiCode captaino1vious connor LapAnon truetravesty &MK_FG nox norbert79 staticsafe GHOSTnew Goochy lysobit pzuraq foolex achus Anonymous922 harkor ElectRo` cayce aHlTat Asad vld d0wn|off IR601
06:11:13 <joepie91> .welcome Okapi
06:11:13 <botpie91> Okapi: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
06:11:40 * cayce giggles
06:12:14 <Okapi> cayce, this is a shot in the dark, but you aren't YTCracker are you?
06:12:31 <cayce> I suspect you're in the wrong channel, but no
06:12:48 <cayce> and by wrong channel I mean wrong network
06:13:07 <joepie91> so, cayce, what happened to botpie
06:13:08 <joepie91> and loggy
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06:13:31 <joepie91> how long ago is that?
06:13:43 <joepie91> (loltimezones)
06:13:49 <cayce> oh
06:13:52 <cayce> ~2 hours
06:14:02 <cayce> no introspection on loggy, netsplits
06:14:06 <joepie91> hmm, right
06:14:08 <joepie91> netsplits?
06:14:12 <joepie91> there were netsplits?
06:14:18 <cayce> 3 of them
06:14:24 <joepie91> wat :|
06:14:25 <joepie91> between what leafs
06:14:27 <joepie91> er
06:14:28 <joepie91> leaves
06:14:35 <joepie91> plurals are hard
06:14:44 <cayce> haless<->nexus, all three times
06:15:07 <joepie91> hrm.
06:15:17 <cayce> 18:43, 18:53, 19:01
06:15:25 <joepie91> right, thank you
06:15:32 <joepie91> might need to take that up with my host
06:15:41 <cayce> oh
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06:15:43 <cayce> found it
06:15:43 <joepie91> I get the impression that routing has worsened recently
06:16:33 <cayce> seems like
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10:34:04 <joepie91> .title
10:34:05 <botpie91> joepie91: Adobe confirms stolen passwords were encrypted, not hashed - CSO Online - Security and Risk
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10:49:09 <MK_FG> The meeting went like this: "dev: we should use hashing. manager: no no no, dumps hash with industry standard md5 get broken all the time, we must encrypt!" :P
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10:58:24 <joepie91> hehe
10:58:26 <joepie91> most likely, yes
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12:28:44 <joepie91> whoa wtf
12:28:45 <joepie91> MK_FG
12:28:46 <joepie91>
12:29:05 <joepie91> also, wtf, (second?) largest online food delivery service in NL now accepts Bitcoin
12:31:32 <lysobit>
12:32:13 <MK_FG> Haha, wow
12:34:57 <MK_FG> I'm kinda sceptical about that pic being non-fake or non-joke
12:35:31 <MK_FG> Law prohibits transactions in non-rub here for goods
12:35:53 <MK_FG> (which is probably same as with most other countries)
12:36:05 <joepie91> ?
12:36:06 <joepie91> it isn't
12:36:47 <MK_FG> How can taxes be calculated/paid then?
12:36:59 <MK_FG> I.e. you sell food for virtual stuff
12:37:07 <MK_FG> How country should tax that?
12:37:16 <joepie91> the same way taxes are calculated over other goods or non-monetary income?
12:37:22 <joepie91> how exactly it's done depends on the country
12:37:55 <MK_FG> Well, yeah, enterprise has an account in taxable currency to which it gets its profits
12:38:14 <MK_FG> Don't think btc can be one
12:38:43 <joepie91> you're not taxed in BTC
12:38:49 <joepie91> you're taxed in representation of state tax currency
12:38:50 <joepie91> :P
12:38:51 <joepie91> usually
12:38:52 <MK_FG> But not sure if it's universal, yeah, still seem to be fairly weird if countries allow free circulation of non-local currency
12:39:00 <joepie91> why would it be weird?
12:39:20 <MK_FG> "you're not taxed in BTC" = "tax evasion" = "crime"
12:39:34 <joepie91> MK_FG: read the line that comes after it...
12:39:50 <MK_FG> Sure, then you have to accept that currency as profit
12:39:59 <MK_FG> I.e. not BTC, that state currency
12:40:06 <joepie91> what
12:40:22 <joepie91> MK_FG: you're taxed in $state_currency representing $value_of_good
12:40:30 <joepie91> whether that good is state currency, Bitcoins, or chickens
12:40:37 <joepie91> not sure what part is unclear :|
12:40:42 <MK_FG> Ok, you accept 10 BTC, which amount of "value" is it?
12:41:03 <MK_FG> How much profit you got?
12:41:16 <MK_FG> How much tax should be added?
12:41:52 <joepie91>
12:42:34 <joepie91> that would appear to suggest "whatever they are worth at the time of exchange", which would make sense
12:44:13 <MK_FG> There's a lot of things like "... if bitcoins are treated as a currency, you will be taxed ...", fairly sure it doesn't work that way
12:44:24 <MK_FG> I.e. tax services are simple
12:45:01 <MK_FG> They see your company account and all the money movements there, in local real currency, tax is on that in fixed and predictable amount
12:45:22 <MK_FG> Everything that goes past that account is evasion
12:45:34 <MK_FG> (or whatever else non-local-currency acount)
12:45:56 <MK_FG> Guess could be different, but "whatever they are worth at the time of exchange" doesn't seem to be very realistic
12:46:23 <MK_FG> Raises all sorts of questions like "worth where?" "to whom?"
12:46:45 <joepie91> MK_FG...
12:46:50 <joepie91> I don't know how things work in Russia
12:47:01 <joepie91> but in several countries Bitcoin has already been assessed by tax agencies
12:47:08 <joepie91> and declared private currency, taxable goods, etc.
12:47:32 <joepie91> these kind of questions have largely already been answered for other countries :|
12:47:49 <MK_FG> My doubts above don't apply to "goods"
12:50:08 <MK_FG>
12:51:05 <MK_FG> Still not sure if term refers to "must accept" or "must accept only these" though...
12:52:58 <MK_FG> Yeah, apparently "Some jurisdictions may forbid or restrict payment made other than by legal tender." isn't norm, guess you're right about that
12:59:33 <MK_FG> That actually explains why paypal took few years to get here, and now when it did, it's totally broken, as it can't pay you out in usd and refuses to convert these :P
12:59:44 <joepie91> lol
12:59:48 <joepie91> innovation.avi
13:04:27 <MK_FG> Hmm, twitter thread spotted logo of this - - at the bottom of that sign
13:04:59 <MK_FG> So yeah, looks kinda legit, interesting
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15:33:34 <zxcvbnm> m0rning
15:54:52 <joepie91> ohai
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17:26:52 <iceTwy> joepie91: is backup
17:26:55 <iceTwy> urm
17:26:57 <iceTwy> up*
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17:40:42 <joepie91> yay
17:51:21 <iceTwy> http://icebinled6dsmqbu.onion/ is up too!
17:51:27 <iceTwy> cc joepie91 ^
17:56:31 <iceTwy> as for that will REALLY have to wait
17:56:54 <iceTwy> nginx & 0bin can be set up in no time. but compiling Atheme & Charybdis is liek, ugh
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18:00:41 <DrWhat> I love you joepie91
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18:07:33 <iceTwy> I think that I've just understood classes in Python
18:07:40 * iceTwy yay
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18:24:44 <DrWhat>
18:24:51 <DrWhat> 50% of bitcoin purcheses
18:24:55 <DrWhat> untill 2014
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18:39:53 <complex> wow
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18:51:26 <iceTwy> nice
18:51:28 <iceTwy>
18:51:29 <iceTwy> .title
18:51:31 <botpie91> iceTwy: Lavabit's Dark Mail Initiative by Ladar Levison — Kickstarter
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19:06:59 <MK_FG> Optimistic \o/
19:07:40 <MK_FG> I'd think whatever spooks can just come in and demand to backdoor the app in some subtle way, given their unlimited power
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20:03:20 <Cryto923> hi beo
20:04:54 <Cryto923> beowulf His freaking teeth were RED
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20:11:30 <beowulf> hello
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22:37:33 <iceTwy> THIS
22:37:35 <iceTwy> this.
22:37:38 <iceTwy> very much this
22:37:40 <iceTwy>
22:37:42 <iceTwy> .title
22:37:43 <botpie91> iceTwy: Document isn't HTML
22:37:47 <iceTwy> no shit
22:37:59 <iceTwy> "Combining a mailworm with GPG"
22:38:16 <iceTwy> "It  just recives one random public key from a keyserver,
22:38:18 <iceTwy> extracts  the email address, encrypts one of two messages and attaches
22:38:20 <iceTwy> an encrypted copy of itself to the mail.
22:38:22 <iceTwy> "
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