Cryto! 29 October 2013
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00:07:40 <DrWhat> joepie91
00:08:12 <DrWhat> WhaT ThE FuCk HaS bEeN GoInG oN WiTh ThE NeTwOrK
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00:09:16 <vld> It'S BeEn GoInG FiNe F0H m3
00:09:26 <AntiByte> It is fine
00:09:33 <joepie92> <joepie91>wat?
00:09:33 <joepie92> <joepie91>and stop typing in weirdcase
00:09:37 <joepie92> also stupid internet
00:09:59 <AntiByte> That's leet talk obviously
00:10:15 <DrWhat> [11:32:02pm] [DrWhat] I havnt been able to connect in the last 2 days
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00:10:38 <DrWhat> ^
00:10:41 <DrWhat> SGZDFFXG
00:10:41 <DrWhat> VYT
00:10:41 <DrWhat> X
00:10:41 <DrWhat> DFXJB
00:10:41 <DrWhat> GC
00:10:41 <DrWhat> F M
00:10:55 <vld> llllllll?
00:10:57 <DrWhat> The valley of death we are free, your father's your prison you see..
00:11:03 <x> wot
00:11:20 <DrWhat> Problem?
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00:12:04 <vld> 93!
00:12:15 <joepie93> <joepie92>DrWhat: two of the three leafs have been down for maintenance for a bit
00:12:16 <joepie93> <joepie92>most likely you were just unlucky in what you tried to connect to
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00:12:52 <vld> can we hear 94
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00:16:16 <nox> joepie93,
00:16:23 <nox> hosthatch turned out to be pretty legit
00:16:56 <DrWhat> Welcome joepie93, joepie91 isnt her atm so i would like to remind you this channel is publicly logged and please read topic for rules
00:20:14 <joepie93> lol DrWhat
00:20:29 <joepie93> nox: not something you can judge in a day :)
00:24:15 <nox> joepie93, that's what you think
00:24:30 <nox> they questioned me for a few hours today before activating anything
00:24:44 <joepie93> wat
00:24:44 <nox> and have been extremely professional over the ticket center
00:24:51 <nox> yeah
00:24:54 <joepie93> again, it's not something you can judge in a day
00:24:55 <nox> every purchase has to be justified
00:24:58 <joepie93> wat
00:25:01 <joepie93> oh
00:25:04 <joepie93> to avoid booters or what
00:25:06 <nox> yeah
00:25:08 <joepie93> right
00:25:14 <nox> and then they did all this verification shit
00:25:18 <joepie93> regardless, them being professional now tells you nothing about how they'll be in the long term
00:25:20 <nox> all im saying, is it was a good first impression :P
00:25:23 <joepie93> sure
00:25:28 <nox> well nobody knows how they will be in the long term
00:25:30 <nox> you're just a cynic :P
00:25:42 <joepie93> nox: given the low end hosting environment, I have reason to be
00:25:48 <nox> heh
00:25:59 <nox> meybe
00:31:22 <joepie93> .title http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/28/us-usa-crime-hacking-idUSBRE99R0LP20131028
00:31:22 <botpie91> joepie93: British man charged with hacking U.S. military networks | Reuters
00:44:06 <DrWhat> wasnt me
00:44:12 * DrWhat whistles
00:53:25 *** joepie93 is now known as joepie91
00:53:25 <joepie91> .
00:53:26 <botpie91> joepie91: 28 Oct 20:19Z <iceTwy> tell joepie91 to read https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto/blob/master/manifesto.txt
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00:55:30 *** SpaghettiCode changed the topic to: "Cryto Coding Collective | THIS IS A PUBLICALLY LOGGED CHANNEL. http://wire.cryto.net/logs | http://cryto.net/, http://forums.cryto.net/ | Rules: no Anonymous, no cracking, no drama | Now, with more dpk! | Cryto Research: http://research.cryto.net/ | RIP Aaron Swartz"
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00:57:08 <joepie91> botpie91, tell Macbeth that not everybody here is trying to hide their identity... and it can be perceived as unpleasant when you approach people like you did with Zekka (re: their state)
00:57:08 <botpie91> joepie91: I'll pass that on when Macbeth is around.
00:57:24 * joepie91 spots an Asad
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01:41:51 <iceTwy> joepie91: had a look at what I linked you to? ;)
01:42:30 <iceTwy> joepie91: that manifesto is signed by Peter Saint-Andre, the main dev of Prosody, etc
01:43:01 <joepie91> iceTwy: haven't had time yet
01:43:08 <joepie91> as you may have gathered, nsh was arrested
01:43:12 <iceTwy> yeah
01:43:18 <iceTwy> never really talked to him though.
01:43:25 <iceTwy> just spotted him a few times on #swhack
01:43:31 <iceTwy> can't say I knew him much!
01:44:50 <iceTwy> joepie91: basically, the manifesto is about forcing SSL/TLS encryption on XMPP
01:45:06 <iceTwy> signed by every major party involved in XMPP
01:45:41 <joepie91> that's quite good
01:45:53 <DrWhat> including google....
01:46:09 <iceTwy> DrWhat: how's Google involved in XMPP?
01:46:47 <DrWhat> Dont they use it for gmail <-> gmail account talk
01:47:03 <joepie91> DrWhat: Google Talk is deprecated
01:47:10 <iceTwy> ^
01:47:11 <joepie91> it's switching to hangouts now
01:47:13 <iceTwy> Talk has
01:47:13 <joepie91> which doesn't use xmpp
01:47:16 <iceTwy> yeah
01:47:17 <iceTwy> that
01:47:46 <iceTwy> The Android app for Google Hangouts is named "Google Hangouts (replaces Talk)"
01:48:16 <iceTwy> joepie91: what's your current sleep schedule?
01:48:37 <joepie91> sleep around 5, wake up around midnight
01:49:30 <iceTwy> it seems a bit odd
01:49:46 <iceTwy> alright
01:50:00 <iceTwy> might go to zZz
01:51:16 <joepie91> iceTwy; aw
01:51:25 <joepie91> xmpp btw
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02:05:58 <iceTwy> oh god
02:06:05 <iceTwy> all those expired PGP keys.
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02:28:12 <joepie91> iceTwy: ?
02:28:31 <cayce> iceTwy:) you're welcome :)
02:28:36 <cayce> morning joepie91 !~
02:28:47 <joepie91> morning.
02:28:51 <joepie91> cayce: you heard the news I assume?
02:29:04 <cayce> I read the backlog, I've never heard of nsh though
02:29:11 <joepie91> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/british-activist-lauri-love-charged-with-hacking-us-army-database-8909484.html
02:29:15 <joepie91> gives a better idea
02:29:27 * cayce reads
02:31:35 <cayce> haha seriously
02:32:03 <cayce> they don't even introduce the idea that he was somehow mishandling the information (assuming it was him in the first place)
02:32:21 <cayce> he's probably got better data security practices than the govt agencies
02:32:22 <cayce> :|
02:32:36 <cayce> ruining more young lives for nothing
02:32:37 <cayce> :|
02:54:44 <joepie91> guess what repercussions those will see, that were responsible for the vulnerability existing in the first place
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03:06:10 <cayce> I can only hope they'd fix it, but I actually doubt it
03:12:10 <iceTwy> ^
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03:33:49 <joepie91> hey Ari
03:33:58 <Ari> hey joepie91
03:34:14 <joepie91> Ari: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/british-activist-lauri-love-charged-with-hacking-us-army-database-8909484.html :(
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03:51:41 <Ari> oh
03:51:44 <Ari> that's laurelai?
03:51:45 <Ari> shit
03:51:46 <Ari> welp
03:53:25 <cayce> :<
03:54:34 <joepie91> Ari: no
03:54:35 <joepie91> it's not
03:54:36 <joepie91> it's nsh
03:54:41 <Ari> o
03:54:45 <Ari> the name fucked with me
03:54:52 <joepie91> Laurelai is somethingsomething Bailey, no?
03:55:19 <Ari> Laurelai Bailey
03:55:20 <Ari> lol
03:55:28 <joepie91> huh?
03:55:35 <joepie91> Laurelai was actually their first name?
03:55:38 <Ari> that's xer name
03:55:39 <Ari> i think
03:55:42 <joepie91> ah
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08:39:20 <MK_FG> joepie91, I think tahoe introducer went casualty of late reboots ;)
08:39:36 <joepie91> MK_FG: nah, that's a crashed RAID array actually
08:39:43 <joepie91> in the process of being recovered
08:39:54 <joepie91> it seems half my boxes decided to take a crap at the same time
08:39:55 <joepie91> lol
08:40:08 <MK_FG> Hah
08:40:08 <joepie91> disaster never comes alone...
08:40:18 <joepie91> that said, stuff is still online!
08:40:18 <joepie91> heh
08:40:29 <joepie91> also
08:40:40 <joepie91> .tw https://twitter.com/joepie91/status/395082110479761408
08:40:40 <botpie91> BREAKING NEWS: Counting method for http://healthcare.gov codebase revealed; auditor ran `find / -type f -exec cat '{}' + | wc -l` on server (@joepie91)
08:41:33 <MK_FG> I think it'd hang on /dev/zero or /dev/urandom :P
08:41:50 <MK_FG> Or hmm, no -type f
08:42:19 <MK_FG> Are you making fun of their LoC claims there?
08:42:27 <joepie91> yes :)
08:43:04 <MK_FG> Not that surprising from gov contractors, actually
08:43:28 <MK_FG> It's very much the same story here - gov pays millions to some gov official's son for total crap
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11:22:25 <joepie91> cayce: there? need your opinion
11:22:46 <iceTwy> cayce is away, afaik, joepie91
11:23:03 <joepie91> damnit
11:23:29 <iceTwy> what did you need an opinion on?
11:23:41 <joepie91> is 10 euro a good price for a french press? :P
11:25:17 <joepie91> (it's on discount in a discount store here)
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11:27:22 <macbeth> Hey
11:27:23 <botpie91> macbeth: 00:57Z <joepie91> tell macbeth that not everybody here is trying to hide their identity... and it can be perceived as unpleasant when you approach people like you did with Zekka (re: their state)
11:28:51 <macbeth> botpie91, tell joepie91 that I'm sorry if it came out wrong, I won't do it again and that I was just trying to him/her because security isn't that much of a joke. But it won't happen again and I'll try to sound less obnixous.
11:28:51 <botpie91> macbeth: I'll pass that on when joepie91 is around.
11:29:26 <joepie91> hai
11:29:26 <botpie91> joepie91: 11:28Z <macbeth> tell joepie91 that I'm sorry if it came out wrong, I won't do it again and that I was just trying to him/her because security isn't that much of a joke. But it won't happen again and I'll try to sound less obnixous.
11:29:38 <joepie91> macbeth: I know that security isn't a joke, but this isn't an anon network :)
11:29:50 <macbeth> Ok, sorry then
11:29:53 <macbeth> ** Obnoxious
11:29:58 <joepie91> it's not assumed that someone here has a need (or even desire) to hide their identity
11:30:14 <joepie91> on anonops a remark like you made would make sense
11:30:15 <joepie91> but not here
11:30:25 <macbeth> alrighty
11:30:41 <macbeth> Also, Not to hide ID, but to secure from other people. I don't want ppl to be open to ddos or hacks or anything like that.
11:30:47 <iceTwy> joepie91: 10€? that's extremely expensive
11:31:02 <iceTwy> what do you mean by french press though
11:31:05 <iceTwy> a newspaper?
11:31:07 <joepie91> wat
11:31:22 <joepie91> http://javamoose.com/files/howtofrenchpress.jpg
11:31:29 <iceTwy> sec
11:31:31 <iceTwy> urm
11:31:37 <iceTwy> OH
11:31:39 <iceTwy> that
11:31:39 <joepie91> lol
11:31:49 <iceTwy> nah, then, it's pretty cheap
11:32:02 <iceTwy> but instead of buying a french press..
11:32:05 <iceTwy> donate to Snowden ;p
11:32:15 <iceTwy> http://freesnowden.is/
11:33:10 <iceTwy> the BTC address => 1snowqQP5VmZgU47i5AWwz9fsgHQg94Fa
11:34:46 <joepie91> ...
11:35:00 <joepie91> I suspect that my 10 euro is better spent on increasing my productivity
11:35:00 <joepie91> :P
11:36:03 <iceTwy> no
11:36:05 <iceTwy> ^^
11:36:38 <MK_FG> I think I got mine about 2y ago for 8€ equivalent in RUB
11:37:00 <MK_FG> There were definitely more costly ones, up to $50, I think
11:37:26 <joepie91> sounds like a good deal then
11:37:37 <joepie91> should probably pick one up, been looking for one for a while
11:37:51 <MK_FG> I thought they should be cheaper in "discount store" :P
11:38:02 <MK_FG> But inflation, eu and such...
11:38:29 <MK_FG> It's not that great for tea
11:40:15 <joepie91> MK_FG: do realize that I'm in NL
11:40:22 <joepie91> we have pretty ridiculous taxes
11:40:25 <joepie91> not the worst
11:40:28 <joepie91> but pretty ridiculous nevertheless
11:41:21 <MK_FG> Yeah, that's what I meant by "eu" there
11:41:41 <joepie91> even for EU standards it's pretty bad afaik
11:41:42 <joepie91> :P
11:41:49 <joepie91> only nordic countries are worse I think
11:41:50 <joepie91> tax-wise
11:42:11 <iceTwy> yeah, but they have the highest standard of living, too
11:42:13 <iceTwy> so wel
11:42:13 <MK_FG> Heh, that's what you get for living in "socialist europe"!
11:42:15 <iceTwy> l
11:42:23 <MK_FG> Nordic are even more socialist :P
11:42:27 <iceTwy> lol, socialist Europe
11:42:32 <iceTwy> yeah, but their system's also the best
11:42:34 <iceTwy> by far
11:42:40 <MK_FG> Because you can freeze to death there if not paid something
11:42:47 <joepie91> <iceTwy>yeah, but they have the highest standard of living, too
11:42:48 <joepie91> this
11:42:49 <joepie91> SO MUCH THIS
11:42:53 <iceTwy> haha yeah
11:42:58 <joepie91> at least THEIR ridiculous taxes actually pay for something USEFUL
11:43:03 * joepie91 facepalms at NL
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12:18:12 <vld> botpie91, tell alina welcome!
12:18:12 <botpie91> vld: I'll pass that on when alina is around.
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13:04:42 <cayce> joepie91:) n.n can you show it to me? it will depend on if the container is glass and how cheap the plunger/mesh are
13:05:10 <joepie91> cayce: too late, already got it
13:05:11 <joepie91> but yes, glass
13:05:22 <cayce> kk how;s the plunger
13:05:39 <joepie91> cheap, but put together well - I'm unsure what characteristics you're looking for
13:06:16 <cayce> well the mesh will be backed by something, is it metal? and is the pole of the plunger metal
13:06:44 <joepie91> pole is metal, witha
13:06:47 <joepie91> with a nut at the end*
13:06:51 <cayce> ye
13:06:51 <joepie91> the mesh end
13:06:53 <joepie91> the backing is plastic
13:07:00 <cayce> not too bad
13:07:04 <joepie91> but not flimsy plastic
13:07:11 <joepie91> feels very very solid
13:07:17 <cayce> test it under heat, but yeah
13:07:19 <cayce> probably very decent
13:07:32 <cayce> :)
13:07:47 <joepie91> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAFETIERE-Termisil-1-litre-ALL-GLASS-/251246656556?category=98851&cmd=ViewItem&ih=015&nma=true&si=4duI%252B6cHqO4rZWRUDK8YojelS5U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
13:07:49 <joepie91> that one
13:08:13 <cayce> cute
13:08:27 <cayce> yeah it should do :)
13:08:38 <cayce> be careful of the handle, will probably be hot :)
13:08:55 <joepie91> lol
13:08:57 <joepie91> okk
13:09:00 <joepie91> ok *
13:09:19 <cayce> (the handles of fancy ones are heat-separated from the glass body, yours is not)
13:09:45 <joepie91> summary seems accurate then
13:09:52 <joepie91> <joepie91>cheap, but put together well
13:11:00 <joepie91> bah, stickers
13:11:01 <joepie91> I hate stickers
13:11:52 <joepie91> WARNING:
13:12:00 <joepie91> 1. The glassware is dishwasher-safe.
13:12:04 <joepie91> (is that a warning?)
13:12:16 <joepie91> 2. Do not use in microwave or on an electric cooker.
13:12:29 <joepie91> (I wasn't planning to make coffee in a microwave, no)
13:12:43 <joepie91> 3. Do not allow children to use this coffee maker.
13:12:45 <joepie91> (aww, why not?)
13:12:54 <joepie91> 4. Hot liquid is a hazard.
13:12:59 <joepie91> (yes, and water is wet - and so is coffee)
13:35:13 <joepie91> cc cayce
13:35:39 <vld> such troll
13:36:02 <macbeth> +1
13:36:10 <vld> plus, that french press is horrible
13:36:17 <macbeth> mhmmmmmmmmmm
13:36:23 <cayce> joepie91:) what
13:36:34 * cayce eats
13:36:42 * macbeth begs
13:36:50 * cayce throws an egg to macbeth
13:37:06 * cayce has 3 of em >_>
13:37:08 * macbeth grabs the egg and throws it at cayce's house
13:37:15 <macbeth> <_<
13:37:23 * cayce catches in mouth and eats
13:37:28 <macbeth> just found the most fantastic VPN service in the world
13:37:36 <cayce> the one you run yourself?
13:37:50 <macbeth> im talking about IPredator
13:38:14 <macbeth> No tracking, they won't give anything to the police no matter what, and if they have to, they only give what infos you provide
13:38:26 <macbeth> it's based in friggin Sweden!
13:38:34 <vld> all VPNs log IP addresses
13:38:36 <vld> remember that :p
13:38:40 <cayce> agh man, there's so much self promotion in G+ communities
13:38:54 <cayce> I'm so glad I don't run one or I'd ban half the people
13:39:05 <joepie91> cayce: I meant the above manual excerpt
13:39:06 <joepie91> :P
13:39:10 DrWhat has quit (Input/output error)
13:39:13 <macbeth> i heard about this cos they have a tor exit node
13:39:17 * joepie91 sighs
13:39:18 <joepie91> macbeth
13:39:22 <joepie91> ..
13:39:24 <macbeth> joepie91
13:39:25 DrWhat (Snake@DrWhat.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
13:39:25 <macbeth> ..
13:39:26 <cayce> you off'd it?
13:39:28 <cayce> what in the
13:39:29 <DrWhat> ...
13:39:30 <joepie91> I really shouldn't even have to tell you anymore
13:39:31 Zekka (zekka@cryto-B5DB5A6B.arizona.edu) has joined #crytocc
13:39:35 * cayce facedesks
13:39:42 <DrWhat> ?
13:39:43 <macbeth> yeah, wrong place
13:39:44 <macbeth> sorry
13:39:47 <joepie91> no
13:39:50 <joepie91> that is not even what I meant
13:39:52 <joepie91> I meant the VPN thing
13:39:52 <DrWhat> Im come back here and this happens
13:39:55 <cayce> NP: [John Mellencamp - Emotional Love] [Mr. Happy Go Lucky] [1031kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
13:39:57 <joepie91> I've told you a million times
13:40:02 <joepie91> VPNS ARE BASED ON PROMISES
13:40:04 <vld> a _million_ times!
13:40:08 <joepie91> they aren't "fantastic"
13:40:13 <joepie91> you have no way to determine that
13:40:14 <cayce> (probably three million by now, vld )
13:40:14 <DrWhat> VPN are amazing
13:40:16 <joepie91> sweden says absolutely squat
13:40:18 <DrWhat> And soo secure
13:40:19 <joepie91> and basically
13:40:23 <vld> cayce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Nj65PddFs
13:40:24 <joepie91> they're not any different from any other VPN service
13:40:28 <DrWhat> you can hack the nsa and theywont know it was you
13:40:32 <joepie91> DrWhat, shut up
13:40:36 <DrWhat> What#
13:40:38 <macbeth> xD
13:40:40 <cayce> vld:) a new stan video? :D
13:40:49 <vld> eh, if by new you mean february
13:40:50 <vld> yes
13:40:50 <macbeth> Don't feel bad about their website being down. They have a back up ;)
13:40:59 <cayce> vld:) I don't track, so heh
13:41:02 <joepie91> macbeth: seriously... VPNs are fucking terrible for anonymity
13:41:03 <vld> macbeth: sweden logs all external data without a warrant
13:41:07 <joepie91> and that
13:41:14 <DrWhat> Anyone heard about the new dos 0day for apache?
13:41:15 <joepie91> sweden IS NOT a 'freedom haven'
13:41:16 <vld> sweden is horrible for anonymity
13:41:16 <vld> lol
13:41:20 <joepie91> DrWhat, cahnnel topic
13:41:21 <joepie91> channel *
13:41:27 <macbeth> so you would trust tor more?
13:41:27 <DrWhat> infosec
13:41:36 <cayce> not sweden
13:41:37 <DrWhat> My server got hit by it yesturdat
13:41:40 <macbeth> even though tor is one group controling the whole thing?
13:41:40 <DrWhat> crashed
13:41:51 <joepie91> macbeth: what?
13:41:52 <DrWhat> Nothing in logs
13:41:58 <cayce> there's lots of reasons to not trust tor, that isn't one of them
13:42:01 * joepie91 sighs
13:42:15 <DrWhat> tor is slow
13:42:16 <vld> if you want anonymity unplug your power cable
13:42:18 <vld> easy :)
13:42:22 <DrWhat> run by people you dont know
13:42:22 <macbeth> xD
13:42:27 <joepie91> no, macbeth, there is not "one group controlling the whole thing" with tor
13:42:28 <macbeth> mhmm
13:42:33 <macbeth> i know
13:42:35 <joepie91> that is kind of the point
13:42:38 <joepie91> that that isn't the case
13:42:47 <macbeth> that, that, that
13:42:48 <joepie91> DrWhat: yes, which is exactly the design
13:42:56 <cayce> I mostly trust the tor project people to do good anyway, the exit node operators are my attack vector
13:43:16 <cayce> because they ALL do shit
13:43:18 <vld> cayce: random fact, stan grew up 1 block away from me
13:43:22 <DrWhat> but the major flaw is
13:43:24 <vld> cayce: she's really ugly in person lol
13:43:24 <cayce> vld:) lulz!
13:43:32 <DrWhat> exit <-> traffic log
13:43:34 <cayce> vld:) unsurprising, the shoop the shit out of her
13:43:41 <cayce> they *
13:43:46 <joepie91> DrWhat: which is why you never send unencrypted traffic over TOR
13:43:49 <vld> cayce: she was also kinda fat ;(
13:43:53 <cayce> :<
13:43:55 <DrWhat> so whats the point of tor
13:44:00 <macbeth> well this picked up pretty fast
13:44:00 <joepie91> .................
13:44:05 <DrWhat> I see no point in going in circles
13:44:06 <cayce> source disattribution
13:44:09 <joepie91> DrWhat, the point of Tor is anonymity
13:44:23 <joepie91> you should know this
13:44:26 <cayce> source disattribution <--
13:44:36 <vld> disattribution !
13:44:38 <DrWhat> nsa host a exit node -> anomity broken
13:44:46 <joepie91> ...
13:44:47 <cayce> nope
13:44:50 <joepie91> no, DrWhat, that is bullshit
13:44:51 <cayce> guess again!
13:44:55 <joepie91> please go read up on the design of Tor
13:44:57 <joepie91> before trying to break it down
13:45:07 <DrWhat> I did
13:45:09 <DrWhat> agest ago
13:45:11 <joepie91> you clearly didn'tt
13:45:11 <DrWhat> didnt like
13:45:14 <joepie91> or you misremembered
13:45:16 <DrWhat> I think
13:45:25 <joepie91> DrWhat: an exit node CANNOT COMPROMISE YOUR ANONYMITY.
13:45:28 <cayce> didn't like != had that flaw
13:45:35 <joepie91> it doesn't know who you are in the first place
13:45:38 <vld> joepie91: yes, it can ;(
13:45:42 <joepie91> that is pretty much THE ENTIRE POINT OF ONION ROUTING.
13:45:50 <cayce> if you're running ssl connections they can't
13:45:50 <DrWhat> Tor is a too trusted project with 1 giant security flaw that no one has found
13:45:53 <DrWhat> *yet*
13:46:00 <DrWhat> thats how all these things work
13:46:04 <cayce> they find flaws all the time
13:46:09 <cayce> there's flaws in 0.2.3
13:46:12 <joepie91> vld: no it can't; you can send your own identity data over it unencrypted, but then YOU are compromising your anonymity, not the exit node...
13:46:15 <cayce> that's why 0.2.4 is being developed
13:46:25 <DrWhat> I mean 1 big one
13:46:27 <vld> joepie91: cookie planting, malware injections, I can go on
13:46:28 <joepie91> DrWhat: again, you seem to be misinformed; the point of Tor is to not need trust
13:46:32 <DrWhat> thats defeats the perpose of tor
13:46:33 <cayce> but they are not security flaws, they are structure of the network flaws
13:46:40 <cayce> and so it's exciting for 0.2.4
13:47:03 <DrWhat> What happened to internet 2.0
13:47:14 <cayce> it exists already
13:47:18 <DrWhat> I know
13:47:20 <joepie91> DrWhat, seriously, before you start bitching at shit, go and understand it first
13:47:20 <cayce> also 3.0 (cjdns)
13:47:25 <joepie91> this is like trivial basic Tor 101
13:47:29 <joepie91> from the "how does it work" page
13:47:34 <DrWhat> I mean the free and open one
13:47:38 <joepie91> it's not even any advanced stuff
13:47:55 <cayce> DrWhat:) there is no free and open internet2, it's a research network like internet1 was
13:47:57 <macbeth> yeah, joe is right
13:47:57 <joepie91> vld: cookie planting and malware injections is specific to browsers
13:48:02 <macbeth> gotta run
13:48:12 <joepie91> not to Tor itself
13:48:24 <DrWhat> well thats what we need
13:48:30 <DrWhat> new intnernet
13:48:35 <DrWhat> run by no one
13:48:42 <joepie91> (I've always been a little iffy about shipping one Tor browser for everybody, as it means a giant attack surface... for these exact reasons)
13:48:45 <vld> joepie91: correct, but you said "an exit node CANNOT COMPROMISE YOUR ANONYMITY.", tho it facilitates that
13:49:00 <joepie91> vld: it is still the malware compromising your anonymity
13:49:09 <joepie91> we were discussing network design
13:49:09 <vld> joepie91: through the exit node
13:49:14 <macbeth> drwhat are youg etting this from eli the computer guy?
13:49:18 <joepie91> vld: this is not specific to an exit node
13:49:22 <joepie91> again
13:49:23 <macbeth> i just looked it up because i thought it was from him
13:49:25 <joepie91> we were discussing network design
13:49:28 <joepie91> this is not related to network design
13:49:35 <DrWhat> macbeth Internet 2.0?
13:49:36 <joepie91> nor is it an attack vector specific to exit nodes
13:49:36 <macbeth> drwhat
13:49:51 <joepie91> <DrWhat>run by no one
13:49:54 <vld> joepie91: in the end, it doesn't matter for the user how it got compromised (network flaw or simple data manipulation), if the exit node (eg: controlled by NSA) facilitated it, then they will blame the exit node
13:49:55 <macbeth> you're talking about keyloggers and shit being sent to you via exit nodes
13:49:58 <joepie91> good luck having an internet that runs itself
13:50:03 <macbeth> did u get tht from eli the computer gut?
13:50:05 <macbeth> ** guy
13:50:19 <joepie91> vld: and it still doesn't have anything to do with network design, which is what we were discussing
13:50:32 <DrWhat> macbeth I didnt say send you keyloggers did i?
13:50:41 <DrWhat> i said Logg your exit traffic
13:50:48 <DrWhat> lus
13:51:11 <DrWhat> i guess hooking exploit code to your return traffic makes sense
13:51:16 <vld> joepie91: good luck explaining that to users that got compromised by exiting through suspicious exit nodes
13:51:30 <joepie91> vld: again, for the fourth time now, that was not the context
13:51:35 <joepie91> the context was a discussion about network design
13:51:40 <DrWhat> ^
13:51:48 <vld> joepie91: it has to do with network design, you just don't see my point
13:51:56 <DrWhat> ^
13:52:08 <joepie91> vld: no, it doesn't
13:52:12 <DrWhat> ^
13:52:14 <vld> >.<
13:52:15 <vld> fine
13:52:17 <DrWhat> ^
13:52:17 <joepie91> exit node can inject crap, so can the destination
13:52:21 <joepie91> so can any hop inbetween
13:52:27 <DrWhat> ^
13:52:34 <DrWhat> tor is terrible
13:52:37 <DrWhat> Iafiak
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13:52:47 <DrWhat> its a "project"
13:52:56 <DrWhat> key word
13:53:04 <joepie91> DrWhat: dude, please
13:53:08 <DrWhat> what
13:53:10 <cayce> project that saves lives
13:53:17 <joepie91> DrWhat: you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about
13:53:18 <joepie91> stop that
13:53:19 <joepie91> go read up on it
13:53:23 <joepie91> go think about what was said here
13:53:39 <joepie91> instead of blindly pushing the "TOR IS TERRIBLE" thing
13:54:27 <DrWhat> create tor entry node
13:54:31 <DrWhat> Log traffic
13:54:44 <DrWhat> fuck exit nodes
13:54:58 <DrWhat> You know what
13:55:02 <DrWhat> For research
13:55:05 <DrWhat> imma do that
13:55:09 <joepie91> good luck logging encrypted nonsense
13:55:38 <cayce> and a bit of data from retards that didn't use tls
13:55:52 <DrWhat> ^
13:55:59 <DrWhat> But how many people is that...
13:56:03 <DrWhat> 1%
13:56:05 <DrWhat> 20%
13:56:07 <DrWhat> 50%
13:56:13 <cayce> dunno, spend some money and find out
13:56:18 <DrWhat> Going to
13:56:22 <DrWhat> not spend money
13:56:28 <DrWhat> ^_^
13:56:29 <cayce> strengthen the network while you're at it
13:56:50 <cayce> that's the strength of tor, bad actors are still usable network nodes
13:58:37 <joepie91> <cayce>and a bit of data from retards that didn't use tls
13:58:38 <joepie91> no
13:58:42 <joepie91> <DrWhat>create tor entry node
13:58:49 <joepie91> entry node doesn't see cleartext traffic at all
13:58:57 <cayce> oh, sorry misread
13:59:02 <cayce> yeah what he said
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14:09:28 <DrWhat> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/10/28/world/europe/ap-eu-spain-us-spying.html?ref=aponline&_r=1&
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14:14:23 <joepie91> time for my first cup of french press coffee
14:14:25 HiveResearch (HiveResear@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc
14:14:32 <joepie91> no hot handle
14:14:33 <joepie91> cc cayce
14:14:59 <joepie91> oo
14:15:03 <joepie91> good coffee is good
14:15:20 <joepie91> so much better than drip coffee :o
14:16:15 <norbert79> joepie91: I prefer this device for making good coffee: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/hu/c/c0/Kotyog%C3%B3.png
14:16:31 <joepie91> norbert79: yes, that's even btt
14:16:33 <joepie91> better *
14:16:35 <joepie91> but takes too long
14:16:35 <joepie91> :)
14:16:47 <norbert79> nah, it's done in 5-6 minutes
14:17:00 <norbert79> You can have a cigarette before your coffee
14:17:20 <joepie91> except I don't smoke
14:17:23 <joepie91> this is done in 3
14:17:23 <joepie91> :)
14:17:28 <norbert79> well, then wait :)
14:17:30 <joepie91> for a liter
14:17:38 <joepie91> I don't have time for waiting!
14:17:42 <norbert79> I prefer quality above quantity :)
14:17:54 <joepie91> I prefer both
14:18:02 <norbert79> You can't have both :))
14:18:40 <joepie91> I can - I do :D
14:23:34 <joepie91> .wa600 kilobytes a second in terabytes per month
14:23:35 <joepie91> er
14:23:38 <joepie91> .wa 600 kilobytes a second in terabytes per month
14:23:42 <botpie91> convert 600 kB\/s (kilobytes per second) to terabytes per month;1.577 TB\/mo (terabytes per month);4.8 Mb\/s (megabits per second);4.8×10^6 b\/s (bits per second);0.6 MB\/s (megabytes per second);~~ DVD speed (~~ 5 Mb\/s );~~ (0.4 to 1.6) × typical 4G data download rate ( 3 to 12 Mb\/s );~~ 1.2 × token ring speed ( 4 Mb\/s );information rate;[time]^(-1) [information];Time to transfer 100 kilobytes:, ->167 ms (milli
14:23:49 <joepie91> k
14:38:18 <DrWhat> https://github.com/DEVSENSE/Phalanger
14:38:19 <DrWhat> O_O
14:38:27 <DrWhat> Oh wait
14:38:33 <DrWhat> I think i already showed you this
14:38:37 <DrWhat> Months ago
15:06:03 <MK_FG> joepie91, "nsa host a exit node -> anomity broken" "an exit node CANNOT COMPROMISE YOUR ANONYMITY" - tor is known to have weakness if nsa controls both exit node and your isp, like I think DrWhat described
15:06:41 <joepie91> MK_FG: no, that's not what DrWhat described
15:07:05 <MK_FG> Well, if he's from US and "nsa host a exit node", that seem to be the case
15:07:59 <MK_FG> I'd also be worried about who controls directory servers
15:08:15 <MK_FG> Afaik these are the only ones you get lists of nodes from
15:08:23 <MK_FG> And they're built into tor client
15:08:49 <MK_FG> So you have to trust them, and nsa can and probably will compromise these for specific IPs, if necessary
15:09:10 <MK_FG> (i.e. just route to their own servers and give you all-nsa list of nodes)
15:09:26 <MK_FG> (...or just all-us for that matter)
15:09:26 <zxcvbnm> herro
15:09:48 <MK_FG> Probably too costly and conspicuous for every random joe though :P
15:10:16 <DrWhat> nsa has datacenters
15:10:28 <DrWhat> they put 20,000 of those servers on tor
15:10:41 <DrWhat> they are 50% of tor
15:11:46 <zxcvbnm> is this buzz-word tuesday or something ?
15:11:55 <vld> lol, joepie91
15:12:00 <vld> you told me to fix the same bug that your .wa has
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15:32:08 <MK_FG> cayce, It's your lucky day - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733647#c42 :P
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16:42:18 <macbeth> Hey
16:52:55 <zxcvbnm> sup
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17:48:27 <DrWhat> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/134099/are-pdo-prepared-statements-sufficient-to-prevent-sql-injection
17:48:41 <DrWhat> Prepared statement are still susptable to SQL injection
17:50:23 <MK_FG> "But if later on the name is retrieved and then used as a literal in another query"
17:51:00 <MK_FG> That's like saying "Prepared statement are still susptable to SQL injection if you don't use prepared statements" ;)
18:01:11 <DrWhat> For this attack to work, we need to have the character set the server's expecting have the ability for ASCII bytes be valid in multi-byte sequences. As it turns out, there are 2 major character sets that do that, GBK and BIG5. We'll select GBK here.
18:01:15 <DrWhat> Lol yeah
18:01:18 <DrWhat> who uses those
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18:29:38 <MK_FG> "The important thing to realize here is that PDO by default does NOT do true prepared statements. It emulates them (for MySQL)." uuuugh
18:30:50 <MK_FG> Php is such a "wat" territory, it's amazing ;)
18:31:47 <MK_FG> DrWhat, Also note that it's not "Prepared statement are still susptable to SQL injection" case
18:32:15 <MK_FG> It's just that php manages to mislead people into that it's using prepared statements there while apparently it doesn't
18:32:32 <MK_FG> *into thinking that
18:40:43 <iceTwy> MK_FG: I'll SQLi your websitez111!!!
18:46:46 <MK_FG> Nah, I know to stay as far away from php as possible ;)
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19:14:38 <DrWhat> LOL
19:14:43 <DrWhat> seen this for a vulnrability
19:14:43 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/20kuz7
19:14:52 <DrWhat> thats a DEV server
19:15:02 <DrWhat> normal users are not allowed to play on
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22:03:18 <iceTwy> SUCCESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
22:03:20 <iceTwy> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/not-even-two-weeks-after-shutdown-bittorrent-search-site-isohunt-is-back/
22:03:22 <iceTwy> .title
22:03:23 <botpie91> iceTwy: Not even two weeks after shutdown, BitTorrent search site isoHunt is back | Ars Technica
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22:12:22 <norbert79> iceTwy: Seems like a dump of the old site
22:12:41 <iceTwy> norbert79: yup. I'm guessing that old admins/mods got a dump, shared it, then yeah
22:12:43 <iceTwy> winning
22:12:46 <iceTwy> BUT WE SHOULD ARCHIVE IT
22:12:50 <iceTwy> right now
22:13:00 <norbert79> Go on, I have limited space :))
22:13:10 <iceTwy> haha
22:16:09 <norbert79> I wonder how long it will last :)
22:16:15 <norbert79> hopefully long enough
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22:21:23 <complex> is it just me that thinks that the argument that NSA has prevented terror is not valid?
22:22:20 <norbert79> who cares, we all know, that the NSA are lying bastards
22:22:29 <norbert79> let's enjoy isohunt :)
22:22:49 <complex> how is isohunt related?
22:23:03 <norbert79> not much, but I am glad it's available again
22:23:07 <complex> o
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22:24:02 <complex> i hate how thy think that "preventing a new 9/11" is a valid reason for doing what the fuck they want
22:24:54 <norbert79> did they prevent the bombing in Boston?
22:25:06 <norbert79> I rest my case
22:26:56 <complex> the funny thing is that they are so tight on security because so many hates them :P i really dont think my country has the same need because there is no good reason why people should hate us
22:27:42 <norbert79> it's an excuse for adding more oversight
22:27:52 <norbert79> which just turns the place even more hated
22:27:57 <norbert79> vicious cycle
22:33:23 <complex> its pretty funny that the one guy from the boston bombing survived
22:33:53 <complex> if i was him, i would have done everything to make them shoot me so i didnt have to be tortured the rest of my life :P
22:34:09 <norbert79> it was a bit more complicated, than two guys doing freedom fight
22:34:19 <norbert79> it was more related to some mob deal
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22:49:32 <blikewater> can anyone tell me a very secure free email server that I can use, I dont trust google thanx
22:52:02 * blikewater slaps blikewater around a bit with a large fishbot
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23:47:38 <dpk> .seen joepie91
23:47:39 <botpie91> dpk: I last saw joepie91 at 2013-10-29 15:06:41 UTC on #crytocc
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