Cryto! 2 July 2013
13:36:10 loggy (loggy@5C4B2CE4.B8E60B3B.FD9B6484.IP) has joined #crytocc
13:36:10 <haless.cryto.net> Topic for #crytocc is: Cryto Coding Collective | THIS IS A PUBLICLY LOGGED CHANNEL. http://wire.cryto.net/logs | http://cryto.net/, http://forums.cryto.net/ | Rules: no Anonymous, no cracking, no drama | Online Flash IDE: http://wonderfl.net/about/ | Cryto Research: http://research.cryto.net/ | RIP Aaron Swartz
13:36:10 <haless.cryto.net> Users on #crytocc: loggy botpie91 &monod AnonO_o iceTwy d0wn_blog x foolex speakeasy MaryJane zxcvbnm rasputberri joepie91 screapy crates IR601 &ebola snowden aHlTat Ishaq YW truetravesty @SpaghettiCode raymii waflel connor &MK_FG ^Xires twitchyliquid64
13:36:17 <monod> hey there loggy
13:36:20 <monod> xD
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13:58:07 <monod> loggy, place? (where you've been these days)
13:58:15 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
13:58:15 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-07-02#T13-58-15
13:58:16 <joepie91> :P
13:58:20 <monod> xD
13:58:25 <joepie91> also
13:58:27 <joepie91> scarily fast response
13:58:28 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
13:58:28 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-07-02#T13-58-28
13:58:31 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
13:58:31 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-07-02#T13-58-31
13:58:33 <joepie91> weird
13:59:04 <joepie91> and yes
13:59:08 <joepie91> we can get rid of [off]
13:59:09 <monod> tell me the truth: do you use a window manager alone, instead of a full featured desktop env?
13:59:52 <monod> so you're trying to build a new system from ground up?
14:00:23 <monod> now I start to see more about your lifestyle
14:00:42 <monod> stoling your words, you're getting rid of the system as much as you can
14:02:10 <monod> and where your wonderings have arrived? do you hold something like a list of things you've understood should exist in a new system?
14:04:54 <monod> @all: does anyone know of any homebanking program for linux that secures your local details with encryption?
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14:08:25 <joepie91> monod: I primarily just use suse + XFCE
14:08:25 <joepie91> :P
14:08:43 <joepie91> as for building a new system, yes, that _is_ what I am working on a lot
14:08:50 <joepie91> I don't have a complete list yet
14:08:56 <joepie91> but I'm writing blog articles describing it... slowly
14:09:10 <monod> I want to help, with ideas too
14:09:17 <monod> but
14:09:26 <monod> I need to be instructed
14:09:43 <monod> because/or:
14:10:26 <monod> nope, nevermind. I said "I need to be instructed" because I was thinking that atm I do not have any idea of how real things go
14:10:37 <monod> I might have already figure some of them out
14:10:43 <monod> that's what I wanted to say
14:10:56 <monod> but I was also thinking: what would I do if you wouldn't exist?
14:11:11 <monod> look for how things work.
14:11:16 <monod> I think
14:11:25 <joepie91> would you be here, though? :P
14:11:41 <monod> in crytocc?
14:11:45 <monod> on crytonet?
14:11:45 <joepie91> yes
14:11:47 <monod> hmm
14:11:53 <joepie91> (trick question!)
14:11:55 <monod> let me think
14:11:57 <monod> yep
14:12:22 <monod> you meant, if you wouldn't exist?
14:12:45 <monod> if you mean to say that this irc server wouldn't exist too, then the answer is banally 'no' xD
14:12:50 <joepie91> ^
14:12:51 <joepie91> indeed
14:12:51 <joepie91> :P
14:12:55 <monod> hahahaha
14:12:56 <joepie91> also, I do have to get to work now
14:12:59 <monod> just kidding then XD
14:13:01 <joepie91> so we should continue this conversation later :)
14:13:06 <monod> of course!
14:13:16 <monod> sorry too
14:13:25 <joepie91> will be back in 7 hours or so
14:13:25 <monod> and* sorry
14:13:28 <joepie91> :P
14:13:29 <monod> haha ok
14:13:33 <monod> very precise
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15:15:29 <zxcvbnm> chugachugachugachuga
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15:25:00 <iceTwy> YEEES.
15:25:08 <iceTwy> I got hardware acceleration to work on Chromium.
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15:35:52 * zxcvbnm golf claps
15:38:15 * monod needs to look up "golf clapping".
15:45:07 <zxcvbnm> find what you were lookin for mono?
15:48:07 <monod> the word on the dict? yes
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18:51:12 <monod> I'm taking a little rest
18:51:14 <monod> est
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18:51:35 <monod> does someone know of any distributed or decentralized email provider?
18:51:43 <monod> provider* ?
18:51:46 <monod> damn
18:51:50 <monod> bugs
18:51:54 <monod> xchat........
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18:53:10 <monod> let's try now!
18:53:14 <monod> apparentlly no bus
18:53:16 <monod> bugs*
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18:54:01 <monod> oh, such a stupid man - I'll just google it and tell you if it exist.
18:59:25 <monod> *afk*
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19:14:41 <MK_FG> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWSVOFUnfYY
19:15:01 <MK_FG> ^^^ damn nice visualization of repository lifetime
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19:44:32 <botpie91> 04joepie91 made 1 commit(s) to 03Envoy on branch 10feature/notifications: '02Some terminology docs' (https://github.com/KnightSwarm/Envoy/compare/379b53ac7f...64a559042f)
19:53:52 <monod> whoa, MK
19:54:17 <monod> read also, if anyone wants to contribute, learn h and cpp! :D
19:55:08 <MK_FG> That'd be c++
19:55:40 <MK_FG> .h are just it's headers and cpp usually used as in "c preprocessor" (cpp binary)
19:56:22 <MK_FG> (though maybe I'm missing a joke there)
19:58:14 <monod> MK_FG, no jokes :) oh, so that list is a list of file extension
19:58:23 <monod> NOW I see..
19:58:30 <monod> so, cpp!
19:58:33 <monod> that is c++
19:58:50 <MK_FG> Yeah, also sometimes cxx
19:59:17 <monod> I have an unfinished book on C++... (sigh).. what's cxx? O_O (googling it as we speak)
19:59:19 <MK_FG> Come to think of it, why don't people use straight-up .c++ extension?
19:59:34 <MK_FG> .cxx extension, I mean
19:59:36 <monod> I think for the "special" character '+'
19:59:43 <MK_FG> Mostly it's .cpp
19:59:58 <MK_FG> Can't think why it'd be "special"
19:59:59 <monod> oh, I didn't know that c++ had both cpp and cxx
20:00:15 <MK_FG> Unix filenames can have any char except for \0, iirc
20:00:49 <MK_FG> And I'm fairly sure I saw + in filenames on windows...
20:00:50 <monod> you're right in that it's not so special.. hmm, the only other thing that comes to my mind is that you need to hold shift to type + on most keyboads :D
20:01:09 <monod> how much time has passed since your last time on windows? :)
20:01:20 <MK_FG> Hah, as if it stops them from using _ in filenames!!!
20:01:27 <monod> xDD
20:01:40 <monod> lulz
20:01:50 <MK_FG> I have a windows machine assembled on the desk right now, as a matter of fact
20:02:14 <MK_FG> And I think I played on it less than a week ago...
20:02:32 <monod> oh okay then
20:02:41 <monod> (I'm not the only one xD)
20:04:01 <MK_FG> Yeah, hard to imagine using it for anything else
20:04:24 <monod> I think I finally agree with that..
20:04:49 <monod> the only thing that I see is the lack of incompatibility, in windows
20:05:08 <MK_FG> incompatibility?
20:05:09 <monod> not true for windows 8 though
20:05:14 <monod> yeah
20:05:19 <monod> maybe uncompatilibity?
20:05:28 <MK_FG> People complain that old games break there all the time
20:05:39 <MK_FG> Like don't work on win7 and such
20:05:44 <monod> oh wow
20:06:00 <monod> I recall I have some behaving like that, actually
20:06:07 <MK_FG> (never actually seen it myself though, but I probably don't play enough)
20:06:23 <MK_FG> And with win7, some software breaks as well
20:06:28 <monod> hmm
20:06:52 <monod> it's an idea of robustness that I have, this is the fact
20:07:01 <MK_FG> For instance, some unicode support in apps changed there
20:07:22 <monod> when I log into windows, I feel like the bottom panel is more solid
20:07:31 <MK_FG> And a lot of software on parents' machine where I installed win7 after xp a while ago breaks horribly on cyrillic
20:07:40 <monod> oh
20:07:59 <MK_FG> Not only it makes all text unreadable, but also can't open files if there's anything cyrillic in the path
20:08:14 <monod> bad o_O
20:08:20 <monod> not fixed yet??
20:08:24 <MK_FG> (there are some registry and control panel knobs for that, but they still don't fix everything)
20:09:08 <MK_FG> And when I installed win7 for the first time, one of the first things I've reached for was Dokan SSHFS thing
20:09:22 <MK_FG> And it didn't work there atm, new versions are ok though
20:09:39 <monod> fortunately
20:09:42 <monod> well
20:09:48 <MK_FG> So dunno about that compatibility thing... ;)
20:10:07 <monod> I was thinking the same: where does my feel come from? XD
20:10:12 <monod> I have a possible answer also
20:10:15 <MK_FG> I have so little exposure to windows, and yet it seem to break there all the time! ;)
20:10:30 <monod> hmm
20:11:08 <monod> yet that can be answered arguing that you don't use it so often so someone may say that you're not using it properly
20:11:20 <monod> bad english
20:11:27 <monod> don't know if it's understandable
20:11:38 <MK_FG> It is
20:12:18 <MK_FG> Yeah, maybe, but I bet 95% of windows users use it much less "properly" ;)
20:12:50 <MK_FG> (at least from sample of all the people I know afk)
20:13:55 <monod> don't know
20:14:11 <MK_FG> That might actually explain why they complain that even less stuff (e.g. old games) work for them
20:14:52 <MK_FG> Though steam seem to be a godsent for those who use it in that regard
20:15:40 <monod> (thinking, I'm not dead)
20:16:05 <MK_FG> Or... maybe not, I heard complaints on how they have crashes and bad multiplayer xp with fairly old steam games as well
20:16:24 <MK_FG> (with civ5 and dow warhammers iirc)
20:17:42 <monod> I see that people who have trouble with windows are people who are not interested in 1) computers or 2) windows, like my brother e.g.
20:18:06 <monod> if he has a problem with its computer - windows all of his life almost - he does not have almost any clue on how to fix it
20:18:19 <monod> sometimes he gets some surfing the internet
20:18:30 <MK_FG> Yeah, and you accuse *me* of not using it properly! ;)
20:18:38 <monod> which is what anyone does in order to fix anything at the moment
20:18:48 <MK_FG> They break and torjan it horribly all teh time!
20:19:38 <monod> rather than *me* accusing you, I was saying that since you don't use it quite often, someone else may stand up and say that you're issues on windows are because you don't use it very often
20:20:03 <monod> looking up torjan...
20:20:10 <MK_FG> trojan
20:20:24 <monod> ohoh, sorry xD
20:20:32 <monod> it's not easy to fix mistakes in english :)
20:20:33 <MK_FG> It's my typo
20:20:43 <monod> yeah, I see what you mean
20:21:09 <monod> I use to anticipate excuses when it comes to english.... :D
20:21:23 <MK_FG> And heh, I interpret saying "someone might accuse" in this context as less direct way of "accuse"
20:21:58 <monod> hmm, okay, but that's exactly what I was thinking: that someone may argue like that
20:22:17 <MK_FG> I actually consciously try to avoid direct statements quite often
20:22:37 <monod> this kind of behavior has a name
20:22:52 <monod> yet I don't know how it's called :/
20:23:05 <MK_FG> Like, instead of saying "you are wrong, X is false", trying to say "I'd think that X might be not quite correct, at least in some cases"
20:23:27 <monod> you can try and tell me why is that, if you want :)
20:23:37 <MK_FG> Easier to provoke more rational conversation instead of counter-attack that way ;)
20:24:24 <monod> is it a language problem then?
20:24:28 <monod> like:
20:24:31 <MK_FG> Also leaving a lot of space for ambiguity, which is unfortunate, but I think no way around it in this case
20:24:34 <monod> finding a way that does not offend the other
20:24:47 <MK_FG> And because of that, I think you might call it "trolling" in some cases ;)
20:24:52 <monod> hahaha
20:25:14 <MK_FG> It certainly is one of the most powerful rhetoric methods
20:25:29 <MK_FG> Never be clear, so opponent can never prove you being wrong
20:25:53 <MK_FG> While you pick on every minor quirks in their arguments, ignoring the rest
20:26:13 <monod> it is also very, very much used inside university, this way of talking
20:26:17 <monod> speaking*
20:26:20 <monod> better.
20:26:36 <MK_FG> I think it's also used a lot by brits ;)
20:26:44 <monod> britishes?
20:26:47 <monod> oooops
20:26:56 <monod> hmm
20:26:59 <monod> english men? :D
20:27:03 <MK_FG> Yeah, people in the UK, at least stereotypical ones ;)
20:27:21 <monod> brits are said to have a *peculiar* sense of humour
20:28:06 <MK_FG> Heh, same is often said about russians
20:28:17 <monod> oooh, that's cool
20:28:25 <monod> I love people with GREAT sense of humour
20:28:36 <MK_FG> Like how they're all "grim and humorless russian-types" ;)
20:28:45 <monod> looking up grim...
20:28:56 <monod> oh yeah
20:29:09 <monod> oh wait
20:29:21 <MK_FG> It's easily noticeable in comparison with americans actually, and it's a reverse-joke how US people "smile as idiots" ;)
20:29:32 <MK_FG> *reverse-joke here how
20:29:48 <MK_FG> Just cultural difference
20:30:02 <monod> HAHAHAHA
20:30:07 <monod> how US people "smile as idiots" ;)
20:30:10 <monod> xDDDDD
20:30:21 <monod> I picture russians and americans now
20:30:22 <MK_FG> In US, reason for a smile is "being polite", here it's either something genuinely funny or "being an idiot"
20:30:23 <monod> hahaha
20:31:04 <monod> I now wonder why we don't have any asian guy here.
20:31:27 <monod> we would have had the possibility to ask him what it is like in his country
20:31:59 <monod> I think they don't join servers with less than 2^1024 available characters
20:32:51 <monod> oh
20:33:07 <monod> would you like to know what I've discovered during my psychological treatment?
20:33:14 <monod> (also, read on StackOverflow: Did you know that English is the only language where the name of the vowels are not identical to the sounds of the vowels?)
20:33:47 <MK_FG> Hmm
20:33:55 <MK_FG> It doesn't seem to be true
20:34:03 <monod> oh really?
20:34:07 <MK_FG> For example, ё is a vowel here
20:34:18 <MK_FG> Yet it's literally pronounced as "yo"
20:34:49 <MK_FG> And there are special cases for vowel pronouncation in russian as well
20:35:00 <monod> oh yeah
20:35:02 <monod> like the o
20:35:07 <MK_FG> (i.e. one sound in one word, different in another)
20:35:10 <monod> which can also be a
20:35:35 <MK_FG> So dunno, I think that statement is just a bit of a stretch
20:35:48 <monod> just some random guy on SO then :)
20:36:02 <monod> notice the difference between :) and :-)
20:36:04 <MK_FG> Most vowels here are much closer to their name than in english, that's definitely true
20:36:47 <monod> :-) is better for jokes :-)
20:36:58 <monod> it watches you, it sees ya
20:37:22 <monod> :) is just a smile
20:37:31 <monod> I think I see :-) in every ;) of yours :D
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20:38:59 <monod> failed to change font size on xchat xD
20:39:18 <monod> blargh, I have to stop over using "xD"
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20:42:21 <MK_FG> I used to use just ")))" (in various quantities), no idea why mostly using ";)" now
20:42:41 <iceTwy> looks like you guys have been chatting for a while! @ MK_FG & monod
20:42:52 <MK_FG> gibber gibbber gibbber
20:43:06 <iceTwy> I've just seen a documentary on the War on Drugs
20:43:10 <iceTwy> just stumbled upon it on TV
20:43:19 <iceTwy> I never thought I'd spend 1h30 watching a documentary
20:43:21 <MK_FG> Oh, nice, who won? ;)
20:43:23 <iceTwy> but I did
20:43:30 <iceTwy> https://twitter.com/DrugWarMovie MK_FG
20:43:48 <MK_FG> I imagine the answer is "weed won" ;)
20:44:13 <MK_FG> Or maybe US penal system also being kinda clear victor there
20:44:40 * zxcvbnm grumble grumble private prisons grumble
20:46:09 <iceTwy> the way they trace it back to historical roots
20:46:15 <iceTwy> I mean, it = the War on Drugs
20:46:20 <iceTwy> is simply impressing and deep
20:46:44 <iceTwy> the carceral system in the US is full of vicious loops
20:46:52 <iceTwy> never-ending vicious loops
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20:48:31 <monod> god
20:50:58 <monod> I failed at studying physics for tomorrow last physics test
20:51:17 <monod> I try and go patching this now
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20:54:05 <MK_FG> iceTwy, You say "vicious", politicians say "free forced labor!"
20:54:23 <iceTwy> MK_FG: aye, they do
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21:17:39 <monod> joepie91, today I have to sleep as much as I can (and still I will not go to sleep early enough), could we continue our conversation from where it had to be interrupted, with the same fervor too?
21:18:38 <monod> gosh, I have to review my english a bit...
21:18:51 <monod> anyway, going now, I'll read logs
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21:56:17 <botpie91> 04joepie91 made 3 commit(s) to 03Envoy on branch 10feature/notifications: '02Fix mistake in event documentation', '02Fix event calls to pass on bare JID objects rather than unicode strings, keep track of mobile number in the UserCache, send SMS notifications when the user is idle, first (failing) attempt at sending e-mail notifications.', '02Update example configuration file' (https://github.com/KnightSwarm/Envoy/compare/64a5
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