Cryto! 2 March 2014

00:00:20 <dorotea> nope
00:00:33 <dorotea> well, it's in my bookmarks so scratch that
00:00:55 <dorotea> it appears to have nice marketing copy
00:05:03 rmrfbuck ( has joined #crytocc
00:05:31 <pzuraq> indeed
00:05:42 <pzuraq> and a nice, simple, osx like interface
00:05:45 <pzuraq> what I want
00:06:25 rmrfbuck has quit (User quit:  Connection closed)
00:07:51 * dorotea nods
00:38:36 <dorotea> man, suckerpunch is so great
00:49:37 <pzuraq> lol
00:49:50 <pzuraq> it's ridiculous
00:50:31 <pzuraq> I do like the analysis of it being a critique of modern feminism and sexism though
00:52:23 <dorotea> yes
00:52:36 <dorotea> I mostly just like the amazing mixed warfare scenes
00:52:44 <dorotea> it's amazing that they're analogies too
00:53:01 <pzuraq> mmhmm
00:53:26 <pzuraq> quite excellent action
00:53:47 <dorotea> I was commenting elsewhere, if I'm ever in a war I'mma paint an orange turtle on the front of my mech
00:55:08 <dorotea> then again, I'd only ever get to do frontlines shit if I got to embrace my inner pyro
00:55:30 <pzuraq> I'd be down for a mech
00:55:34 <pzuraq> ora sniper
00:55:47 <dorotea> I want multistage explosives
00:56:06 <dorotea> with cores that can burn through a tank
00:56:13 <dorotea> I won't accept anything less
00:56:23 <pzuraq> what's that shit called again
00:56:32 <pzuraq> something -ite
00:56:35 <pzuraq> thermite?
00:56:38 <dorotea> idk, it's what our current anti-tank tank rounds use
00:56:38 <dorotea> yes
00:56:43 <dorotea> thermite's one of em
00:56:48 <pzuraq> :)
00:56:52 <pzuraq> >:)
00:56:58 <pzuraq> >:D
00:57:11 <dorotea> you put a directed explosive in the front of your shell to fire thermite into the tank armor as it impacts
00:57:25 <dorotea> with a lovely little magnesium core
00:58:35 <dorotea> it's either that or I get to play insurgent like the cats in libya. assholes mounted a stolen tank barrel/firing mechanism on a structure they welded onto the back of a toyota
00:58:54 <dorotea> you back it up to a wall to fire
00:59:05 <dorotea> (otherwise you'd flip the truck)
00:59:47 <pzuraq> jesus
01:00:02 <dorotea> like so
01:00:07 <dorotea> (that's a video of it firing)
01:00:51 <dorotea> I just can't stop laughing from that video
01:03:51 <pzuraq> yeah?
01:03:53 <dorotea> It's interesting though because every piece of tech we make that's like ninja grade (like pickup-truck firable missiles) ends up in "terrorists"/"freedom fighters" hands
01:04:06 <dorotea> kiiiiiinda funny (not haha)
01:05:27 <pzuraq> think someone's playing both sides?
01:06:02 <dorotea> we are, always
01:06:32 <dorotea> if there's one thing I've learned it's that any aid we give always has a motive, and strings attached
01:07:10 <pzuraq> Aid has changed a lot since the cold war, but we do still use it politically at times
01:07:32 <dorotea> no, other countries "use it politically at times". the US /only/ uses it politically.
01:07:50 <dorotea> we don't give aid if it doesn't benefit us
01:07:54 <pzuraq> the Gates foundation would disagree
01:08:06 <dorotea> the gates foundation is poisoning africa to death
01:08:09 <dorotea> lol
01:08:22 <dorotea> they're rolling neoliberalism and monsanto pesticides out everywhere
01:08:27 <pzuraq> hmm, why do you think that?
01:08:28 <dorotea> their motives aren't uh beneficial
01:08:51 <dorotea> their work with diseases and shit is top notch
01:09:21 <dorotea> but the other side, their ag work is more than a little problematic
01:09:58 <pzuraq> because they use biomodified plants? GMOs aren't inherently bad
01:10:03 <dorotea> nope
01:10:08 <dorotea> I didn't say gmos
01:10:13 <dorotea> I said monsanto pesticides
01:10:28 <pzuraq> hmm
01:10:29 <dorotea> roundup fucks everything up
01:10:51 <dorotea> people and the environment
01:10:54 <pzuraq> fair. I'd like to see data on the environmental impact.
01:11:09 <dorotea> I mean shit, they have to make roundup ready seeds because otherwise their herbicide kills the crops
01:11:09 <dorotea> lulz
01:11:34 <pzuraq> well that's kind of the point
01:11:37 <pzuraq> :p
01:11:48 <dorotea> I know, but it's literally the definition of ecological destruction
01:11:49 <dorotea> lol
01:12:08 <dorotea> so like sure if you could only spray it on the plants that needed to go away it'd maybe be okay
01:12:09 <dorotea> but you can't
01:12:18 <dorotea> and it gets into the water supply and all that
01:12:40 <pzuraq> If it's contained it might not be too bad. We've been using it in the States for some time and the results aren't terrible, yet.
01:12:43 <pzuraq> It's not ideal
01:12:49 <pzuraq> but Africa needs food
01:13:07 <dorotea> they have food
01:13:14 <dorotea> we're not trying to give them food
01:13:20 <dorotea> they can support themselves just fine with that already
01:13:34 <dorotea> we're trying to set them up so they can export
01:13:49 <dorotea> because we don't count selfsufficiency as monetary gain
01:14:02 <dorotea> gotta export to get money to buy other shit
01:14:07 <pzuraq> which is good. We did it to China, and it raised 1/6th of the world's population out of poverty.
01:14:11 <dorotea> but if you just grew everything yourself, you might not need money
01:14:16 <pzuraq> It's mutually beneficial.
01:14:24 <dorotea> I don't agree
01:14:58 <dorotea> but either way, I think they can do it with what they have already
01:15:07 <dorotea> their plants are already very well adapted to the conditions
01:15:18 <dorotea> and they tolerate climate change better than our GMO ones do, ironically
01:16:08 <dorotea> I wish our biotech firms would start doing what farmers have been doing for ages -- engineering plants resistant to natural stuff. salt resistant rice, drought resistant grains, etc
01:16:15 <dorotea> we're starting too, but jeez it's a bit late
01:16:21 <dorotea> s/too/to/
01:16:40 <dorotea> fuckers need to get a move on
01:17:10 <pzuraq> yeah
01:17:12 <dorotea> like, plants adapt to changing conditions in around 4 years. It'd be awesome if we could just-in-time the correct seeds for that season's challenges
01:17:15 <dorotea> that would be /the/ shit
01:17:25 <dorotea> but everyone just wants to sell pesticides/herbicides
01:17:25 <dorotea> :|
01:17:56 <dorotea> I've got absolutely no problem with GMO's if that's what we're using them for
01:18:07 <pzuraq> fair enough
01:18:08 <dorotea> it's this bullshit with resistance to herbicides and whatever that is silly
01:18:30 <dorotea> unlike most, I'm not really an extremist with this stuff
01:18:44 <dorotea> but I also see the problems with GMOs as not having anything directly to do with gmos
01:19:02 <pzuraq> bananas
01:19:15 <pzuraq> ;)
01:19:21 <dorotea> incentives for corps right now are to make gmos resistant to herbicides or something, and then also be the company selling those herbicides
01:19:37 <dorotea> if we could change that incentive, I think for example monsanto could be a fantastic corp
01:19:49 <dorotea> lotta smart people working on drought resistance and shit? awesome!
01:20:01 <pzuraq> absolutely, but that's hard to change with the current structure
01:20:06 <dorotea> yep
01:20:11 <pzuraq> gene manipulation should be open source
01:20:13 <pzuraq> hmm
01:20:18 <dorotea> that's why I do a lot of hmmhmm with this shit
01:20:22 <dorotea> cause I'm not sure how to proceed
01:20:23 <pzuraq> how long till we can print seeds?
01:20:37 <dorotea> probably another 10 years, tbh, but I don't know
01:20:49 <dorotea> we've come quite a ways in 30, but like
01:20:51 <dorotea> still a ways to go
01:21:31 <dorotea> but it's like monsanto just dropped 1.1bn on a climate forcasting and crop insurance company
01:21:40 <pzuraq> in the meantime I Monsanto is gunna do what it does, and we are going to keep trying to build up Africa for exporting. Like I said, I think that's good for both of us.
01:21:44 <dorotea> like, in cash
01:21:47 <dorotea> lol
01:22:01 <dorotea> I don't want to continue neoliberalism though
01:22:07 <dorotea> it's fucking broken
01:22:24 <pzuraq> what specifically is broken about it?
01:22:39 <dorotea> I can't write all that on irc hahaha
01:22:40 <dorotea> thousands of pages
01:22:44 <dorotea> but like
01:22:49 <dorotea> a few examples
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01:23:50 <dorotea> so for one thing, it's based on a few assumptions we know to be wrong or problematic: rational actors, deregulation of all markets
01:24:06 <dorotea> roughly, completely free trade as well
01:24:13 <dorotea> the problem is that's not what we do
01:24:41 <dorotea> we don't have rational actors, deregulating markets only happens in "emerging" or "underdeveloped" economies, which fucks their populaces
01:24:49 <dorotea> (see jamaica)
01:25:10 <pzuraq> I can agree with that. Those are simplified models of economics that don't account for reality.
01:25:17 <dorotea> yep
01:25:35 <dorotea> but it's unfortunately how the establishment operates right now
01:25:41 <dorotea> like always it's changing, but always too slowly
01:26:04 <dorotea> I suspect that all of history has been like that thus far, though
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01:26:14 <pzuraq> mmhmm ;)
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01:26:35 <dorotea> continually moving towards something better, while also naturally also continually stuck in a state of not-quite-there-yet because "something better" is a moving target
01:27:07 <dorotea> which is why it becomes incredibly important just to give a shit and try to move forward
01:27:25 <dorotea> faster rate of change makes that particular flavor of awkwardness last shorter
01:27:46 <dorotea> last less time, however you say that
01:28:11 <dorotea> and it's the irony that every generation thinks its worse than the previous, and historically it's almost never been the case
01:28:28 <pzuraq> so why do you think using Africa as the next industrial base of the world would necessarily continue neoliberalism? Would it necessarily be bad for the continent?
01:28:31 <dorotea> crime rates plunge, death rates plunge, war counts plunge, etc
01:28:48 <dorotea> because we're imposing it on them
01:29:23 <dorotea> not-even-built-industries trying to compete with the US or .eu isn't a fair bet
01:29:35 <dorotea> never has been, never will be
01:30:12 <dorotea> neoliberalism goes great with our current form of capitalism which requires ever-expanding markets to continue running
01:30:35 <dorotea> at some point we're going to run out of markets, and shit is gonna hit the fan
01:30:48 <pzuraq> hopefully we'll adapt
01:30:59 <dorotea> oh yeah, and people are already trying to figure alternatives
01:31:07 <dorotea> but like any major transition, it'll hurt either way
01:31:12 <pzuraq> have been for some time
01:31:19 <dorotea> the question will be how much, not if
01:31:21 <pzuraq> I do believe that was the point of communism
01:31:32 <dorotea> marxism, yeah
01:31:35 <dorotea> not communism :P
01:31:44 <dorotea> but, good capitalists listened to marx
01:31:45 <pzuraq> well, they tried
01:32:06 <dorotea> he had some very good critiques of capitalism, critiques which are reflected in the capitalism we have today
01:32:41 <dorotea> (of course his solutions may or may not be bullshit depending on your view, but the critiques were good no matter)
01:33:14 <dorotea> whiiiich reminds me
01:33:19 <dorotea> I should do some gpe reading tonight
01:33:20 <dorotea> :3
01:33:44 <pzuraq> any economic solution that was theorized and not observed is imo bullshit
01:34:53 <pzuraq> Smith observed a system and came up with basic rules of thumb that it followed. Marx tried to think of a system, and his solution was ultimately a fantasy that couldn't be implemented due to basic structural flaws.
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01:35:10 <dorotea> I can cut much more of your sentence off and still be correct
01:35:16 <dorotea> "any economic solution is bullshit"
01:35:21 <pzuraq> lol
01:35:23 <dorotea> economics is only one facet of the problem
01:35:37 <dorotea> you will never have a complete solution if economics is the only thing you look at
01:35:46 <dorotea> (which also happens to be a fantastic critique of marx)
01:35:48 <pzuraq> economics should be considered rules of thumb, not hard lines as other sciences
01:35:59 <pzuraq> but they are based in some amount of reason and evidence
01:36:01 <dorotea> well, we're starting to have good economic models
01:36:14 <pzuraq> for instance, centralized economies do not scale well
01:36:17 <dorotea> but they're coming out of "behavioral economics", and they're based on social psychology and sociology
01:36:28 <pzuraq> mm, that makes the most sense
01:36:49 <dorotea> if you want to dip into it some weekend, "prospect theory" is a great place to start
01:37:12 <dorotea> (it's also my favorite theory in econ, besides elasticity anyway)
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01:37:56 <dorotea>
01:38:03 <dorotea>
01:42:11 <pzuraq> if we could use behavioral economics to get a handle on micro economics, we could prolly do well with macro using simulations
01:42:37 <dorotea> yep
01:43:00 <dorotea> the issue there is anyone who follows austrian economics refuses modelling
01:43:25 <dorotea> it's a core tenet of mises and co
01:43:48 <dorotea> I'd like to see conservative and liberal models emerge
01:43:56 <dorotea> because that'd be epic for comparison
01:44:05 <dorotea> just to see which situations work best for which models
01:45:06 <pzuraq> wait
01:45:08 <pzuraq> what
01:45:17 <pzuraq> austrian's are stupid
01:45:44 <dorotea> well, like 7 of their stated assumptions are wrong, so I can't disagree
01:46:16 <dorotea> sorry, I got swarmed by austrians trying to coopt the occupy I was at
01:46:33 <pzuraq> What do you think of Keynesian economics?
01:46:34 <dorotea> somebody had to be informed about their theories, because they sure weren't
01:46:45 <pzuraq> lol
01:46:45 <dorotea> it's incomplete
01:47:41 <dorotea> I mean it was useful at the time
01:48:06 <dorotea> made the crash much less bad and set up the infrastructure that became our national pride during the next 70 years
01:48:11 <dorotea> can't have been too horrible
01:48:27 <pzuraq> yeah. From an analysis I heard, it was stagflation in the 70s that made people drop keynesian policies and hop onboard neoliberalism. I think that it had issues, but it worked well enough.
01:48:41 <dorotea> yeah
01:48:45 <pzuraq> didn't justify a complete 180
01:49:05 <dorotea> well, and we ran into dollar overhang pretty badly
01:49:25 <dorotea> realizing that was an issue is what made us go full retard imo
01:49:48 <dorotea> (which is literally the reason I'm excited about bitcoin, because it's impossible in bitcoin)
01:50:04 <pzuraq> dollar overhang?
01:50:08 <dorotea> yeah
01:50:12 <dorotea> it's why we got off the gold standard
01:50:34 <dorotea> if everyone sets the USD as reserve currency, we have to be able to back all of their transactions AND ours. with gold.
01:50:34 <pzuraq> oh, would that be deflation related?
01:50:49 <pzuraq> oh
01:50:55 <dorotea> that becomes problematic because there isn't enough gold for that
01:50:58 <pzuraq> yeah that would be hard
01:51:01 <dorotea> yeah
01:51:07 <dorotea> I mean sum total there is enough
01:51:14 <dorotea> but like, we can't /get/ enough of it
01:51:57 <dorotea> (and if we did, it'd fuck everything else up as well, because then one country would have all the gold. so why have gold convertibility if only one nation has it? derp)
01:52:23 <dorotea> we'd be like debeers
01:52:28 <dorotea> lol
01:52:41 <dorotea> (who owns 85+% of diamonds)
01:53:42 <dorotea> oh, another economic theory that's really instructive is the Diamond water paradox
01:54:27 <dorotea> that one's fun because you can go read eg: locke's labor theory of value attempt to explain it
01:54:48 <dorotea> get into some nice founding-father philosophy
01:55:13 <dorotea> (mostly as a way to show how fucking queer it is that we idolize them)
01:57:02 <pzuraq> mass politics man
01:57:04 <dorotea> but idk I'm biased, I've actually read some of their work
01:57:10 <pzuraq> Mao was a master of it
01:57:29 <dorotea> speaking of mao, I read a very interesting book a few years back
01:57:45 <dorotea> "mao's way", it's a book about the cultural revolution ostensibly from his perspective
01:57:47 <pzuraq> people are like repeaters. Give them a could ideas and watch the chaos spread...
01:57:49 <dorotea> reaaaaaally fucking interesting
01:57:55 <pzuraq> hmm
01:58:03 <pzuraq> that does sound interesting
01:58:05 <dorotea> rice is the author
01:58:22 <dorotea>
01:58:23 <pzuraq> Mao was a romantic idealist
01:58:37 <pzuraq> I'm a fan of Deng Xioaping tbh
01:58:41 <dorotea> huh, that's what the book is supposed to look like
01:58:44 <dorotea> funky
01:58:47 <dorotea> mine has no cover :D
01:59:14 <pzuraq> pragmatic to the core
01:59:15 <dorotea> huh
01:59:18 <dorotea> neat
01:59:30 <dorotea> yeah that book's tons of military and political strategy
01:59:31 <dorotea> pretty much
01:59:59 <pzuraq> politics was Mao's strong point. Great for a revolution, not so great for after.
02:00:09 <pzuraq> He held the nation back until his death
02:00:42 <dorotea> lol needed a partner in crime
02:01:18 <pzuraq> he had a few, they were usually eventually branded "counter-revolutionaries" and thrown out
02:01:28 <dorotea> :/
02:01:41 <pzuraq> his cult of personality was the biggest problem
02:02:01 <pzuraq> note to self, in case of revolution prevent cults of personality at all cost
02:02:54 <dorotea> :P
02:03:14 <dorotea> chavez's went over pretty well
02:03:56 <pzuraq> Dunno enough about Venezuela to comment. I'm skeptical, but I've heard arguements on both sides and none of them seem to be without bias.
02:04:21 <pzuraq> We'll see where the nation goes in the future. I honestly hope it works for themp.
02:04:38 * dorotea nods
02:08:43 * dorotea fights with google analytics
02:13:47 <dorotea> really?
02:13:54 <dorotea> my analytics were broken because of a semicolon
02:13:59 <pzuraq> lol
02:14:00 <dorotea> god damnit dynamic languages
02:14:07 <pzuraq> use strict
02:14:13 <dorotea> what's that
02:14:26 <pzuraq>
02:14:39 <pzuraq> <3 js
02:15:01 <dorotea> will it blow errors into my console with strict?
02:15:06 <dorotea> cause that's what I want
02:15:06 <dorotea> lol
02:15:19 <dorotea> oh what
02:15:24 <dorotea> you use it inside a function
02:15:25 <dorotea> funky
02:15:29 <pzuraq> there will be errors for things like semicolons
02:15:37 <pzuraq> you can use it globally I think
02:15:52 <pzuraq> but no type checking still. Check out typescript for that.
02:17:08 * dorotea fights
02:17:39 <dorotea> what in the
02:18:02 * dorotea googles
02:18:20 <dorotea> oh right
02:18:27 <dorotea> javascript doesn't really have typing
02:18:44 <dorotea> I mean people claim it does, but if I can put var in front of something and ignore the type for a while... no
02:18:56 <pzuraq> heh
02:19:06 <pzuraq> I have only had issues with that like, once
02:19:27 <pzuraq> it's awesome, because everything is an object and I just throw objects around
02:19:34 <pzuraq> named parameters :)
02:19:46 <dorotea> I don't even know what that is
02:19:55 <dorotea> I'm just writing shit in a file which gets autopushed to my server
02:19:58 <dorotea> and sometimes it works
02:19:59 <pzuraq> so you can do like so
02:20:36 <pzuraq> function(url, data, option1, option2, option3...)
02:20:44 <dorotea> yeah, ga does that
02:20:44 <pzuraq> and calling that is messy as hell
02:21:04 <pzuraq> but you can just pass an object, no need for it to be a particular type
02:21:05 <dorotea> I've got like
02:21:07 <dorotea> ga('set', {
02:21:07 <dorotea>    'timingCategory': 'perceivedload',
02:21:07 <dorotea>    'timingVar': 'perceivedload',
02:21:07 <dorotea>    'timingValue': page_load_time
02:21:07 <dorotea>   });
02:21:24 <pzuraq> mmhmm :)
02:21:25 <dorotea> ahh
02:21:34 <dorotea> (that's where the missing semicolon was, by the way >_> )
02:21:39 <pzuraq> named parameters, makes code so much nicer to read.
02:21:41 <pzuraq> lol
02:21:50 <dorotea> beautiful!
02:21:52 <dorotea> it works!
02:21:55 <dorotea> even with strict!
02:22:00 <dorotea> so, does it ping ga
02:22:03 <dorotea> that is the question
02:22:23 <pzuraq> you know how to check your requests?
02:22:27 * dorotea wants his own timing data because ga's timing data display sucks
02:22:30 <pzuraq> network tab on chrome
02:22:35 <dorotea> oh, yeah
02:22:40 <pzuraq> coo
02:22:41 <dorotea> but like
02:22:56 <dorotea> it's an extremely ugly get
02:23:10 * dorotea uses analytics.js not ga.js or urchin.js
02:23:42 <pzuraq> how much coding you do?
02:23:57 <dorotea> HA FOUND IT
02:24:03 <dorotea> I tend to tell people none
02:24:10 <dorotea> utc:perceivedload
02:24:11 <dorotea> utv:perceivedload
02:24:11 <dorotea> utt:226
02:24:12 <dorotea> FOUND IT
02:24:23 <dorotea> PING PING, MOTHERFUCKER
02:24:28 <dorotea> :3
02:24:43 <pzuraq> you seem to know enough to work your way around it though
02:24:47 <pzuraq> aren't a nub
02:24:57 <dorotea> hmm
02:25:02 <dorotea> correct!
02:25:23 <dorotea> I have dabbled in enough programming to be dangerous, but not always useful
02:25:39 <dorotea> I tend to tell people I don't do it much because then they start out earlier in the "depth of information" chain
02:26:01 <pzuraq> ?
02:26:04 <dorotea> which is good, because I get a refresher and clarification on things I didn't understand without being scolded for not knowing it
02:26:18 <pzuraq> ah
02:26:32 <dorotea> It is my observation that people who program are very arrogant.
02:26:50 <dorotea> So, I ask questions this way and they can feel like they're a great person
02:26:58 <dorotea> I get info, they get warm fuzzy feeling, everyone's happy
02:27:11 <dorotea> :P
02:27:24 <dorotea> now the question is, why does it fire the ping twice
02:27:30 <pzuraq> people who program tend to be very sure of things, and we expect everyone around us to know what we know
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02:27:40 <pzuraq> but we love explaining things to nubs
02:28:05 <dorotea> :D
02:28:09 <dorotea> That's why I play nub :D
02:28:20 <pzuraq> heh, see you found the loophole
02:28:31 <dorotea> yes!
02:28:31 <dorotea> :D
02:28:59 <dorotea> I can just omit my assembly and C programming experience in exchange for information
02:29:02 <dorotea> it works great
02:29:28 <dorotea> (and java, perl, ruby, python)
02:29:53 <dorotea> I love me some compiler though
02:29:55 <pzuraq> I'm trying to work on the patience side of things. I don't want to come off as arrogant.
02:30:11 <dorotea> nothing like that swift kick in the balls when you've messed up a semicolon
02:30:16 * dorotea nods
02:30:26 <dorotea> I'm not targeting specifically you with it, just all programming questions
02:30:58 <dorotea> people that will be patient will always be patient, and those that aren't are susceptible to my exploit :D
02:31:11 <pzuraq> yeah, I get that it's not about me. That's more of a reflection on my own life.
02:31:27 <pzuraq> I can be pretty hard to work with. Getting better at it though.
02:31:54 <dorotea> okay, visually diffing the requests the differences are in the sequence number (1, 2, makes sense) and the classification of request. one is pageview and one is timing, even though both carry both infos
02:32:23 <dorotea> other than those two get params, the requests are identical
02:32:24 <dorotea> :|
02:36:22 * dorotea checks to see if he's accidentally sending twice
02:37:41 <pzuraq> I do that one quite a bit
02:38:30 <dorotea> it looks like not
02:38:41 <pzuraq> gist your code?
02:38:50 <dorotea> I mean unless their analytics script that gets pulled in autosends
02:38:58 <dorotea> haha git
02:39:25 <dorotea> I've used git about once per year, not hated it any less each time
02:39:41 <pzuraq> gist is just like a pastebin on github
02:39:49 <pzuraq> also git is awesome once you get it
02:40:00 <pzuraq> but the learning curve is... painful
02:40:09 <dorotea> that's what everyone tells me, but I only use it once per year max
02:40:23 <dorotea> I don't publish my code in a code-sharing way
02:40:31 * dorotea doesn't know how to phrase that
02:40:39 <pzuraq> fair enough
02:40:58 <pzuraq> but if you gist/pastebin your code I can take a look, see if I can figure it out
02:41:06 <dorotea> like, open licenses, self-documenting code... but I only post it when it's running
02:41:06 <pzuraq> don't even gotta use git
02:41:20 <dorotea> yeah, I'm just tweaking some shit haha
02:41:30 <dorotea> I can just link you to it, but I've gotta see if this change I just made breaks it
02:41:31 <dorotea> lol
02:41:54 <dorotea> excellent!
02:41:57 <dorotea>
02:41:59 <dorotea> have at it
02:42:13 <dorotea> no docs tho
02:42:20 <dorotea> like //
02:42:23 <dorotea> haven't written them yet
02:43:30 <dorotea> the stringify's don't work in ff tho
02:43:35 <pzuraq> hmm
02:43:41 <dorotea> because it doesn't represent those as objects :D
02:43:49 <pzuraq> not seeing anything wrong, but i don't use ga
02:43:59 <dorotea> (because it sided with IE in how to implement the interface, and the interface was not specified in the spec. :| )
02:44:20 <dorotea> at some point I'll figure out how to access the data in firefox...
02:44:52 <dorotea> something about the data being attributes of the properties' super
02:44:55 <dorotea> whatever that term is
02:44:59 <dorotea> prototype!
02:45:01 <dorotea> that's the word
02:46:11 <dorotea> and it looks ugly as fuck to use
02:46:20 <dorotea> so I stuck with chrome's shit simple version for the moment
02:46:57 <pzuraq> lol
02:47:12 <pzuraq> prototype inheritance is fun
02:47:17 <pzuraq> weird, but fun
02:48:00 <dorotea> yeah my friend tried to explain it a few times years ago
02:48:18 <dorotea> but that was when I didn't do programming due to my shitty semester of failing all my programming and calc classes
02:48:36 <dorotea> (16 units of calc and programming.)
02:48:53 <dorotea> there wasn't enough time to articulate why java sucked so horrendously
02:48:54 <dorotea> :D
02:49:44 <dorotea> OH
02:49:47 <dorotea> what.
02:50:19 <dorotea> chrome calls it performance.timing.navigationStart and firefox calls it PerformanceTiming.navigationStart.
02:50:29 <dorotea> The PerformanceTiming interface doesn't inherit any property.
02:50:30 <dorotea> what the
02:50:33 <dorotea> what it means
02:50:52 <dorotea> An object of this type can be obtained by calling the Performance.timing read-only attribute.
02:51:11 <dorotea> so... if I ask it for an object I can do like I do with chrome?
02:51:16 <dorotea> >_>
02:52:05 <dorotea> console.log is like echo
02:53:02 <pzuraq>
02:53:06 <pzuraq> yes
02:53:09 <pzuraq> yes it is
02:53:51 <pzuraq> oops
02:53:52 <pzuraq>
02:53:53 <pzuraq> that one
02:53:55 <pzuraq> good song
02:54:04 * dorotea waits for push
02:54:31 <dorotea> hmm
02:54:37 <dorotea> [18:54:14.731] TypeError: Performance.timing is undefined @
02:55:19 <dorotea> oh not that it'd work anyway
02:55:22 <dorotea> I have ff24
02:55:27 <dorotea> haha only supported in ff25
02:55:43 <dorotea> hmm
02:55:57 <dorotea> The PerformanceTiming interface represents timing-related performance information for the given page.
02:55:57 <dorotea> An object of this type can be obtained by calling the Performance.timing read-only attribute.
02:56:01 <dorotea> how do I do that?
02:56:27 <dorotea> calling it? so, var whatever = Performance.timing(); ?
02:56:39 <dorotea> or sans ()
02:57:16 * dorotea waits
02:57:22 <dorotea> pushpushpush
02:57:39 <pzuraq> google?
02:57:52 <dorotea> I usually just fight with it until it works
02:57:55 <dorotea> and then google
02:58:06 <dorotea> google is worthless when you don't know the correct vocabulary
03:04:39 <pzuraq> that's why you get creative
03:04:48 <pzuraq> w00t
03:04:52 <pzuraq> refactor complete
03:05:15 <pzuraq> now Imma install elementary OS and make dinner
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03:33:55 <dorotea> hehe I'm constructing my own object for firefox
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04:53:46 <dorotea> oh man
04:53:52 <dorotea> crimea is being fucked in real time
05:07:53 <MK_FG> It seem like such a bad idea to annex parts of burning country...
05:08:37 <MK_FG> Civil war thing will still be at the border, but now you've got plenty of fighting on your own territory too
05:15:16 <dorotea> yeah :/
05:15:37 <dorotea> but if you don't make it your problem you just post people at the border and be done with it
05:15:52 <dorotea> then it's just some diplomatic posturing
05:17:39 <MK_FG> Putin just wants to see teh world burn :P
05:18:11 <dorotea> he wants that extra millimeter on his dick length
05:18:12 <dorotea> lol
05:22:45 <dorotea> hmm
05:22:50 <MK_FG> What's better - lastfm-fpclient or musicbrainz AcoustID?
05:22:57 <dorotea> the question is, does putin find russia to be a civilizational structure
05:23:16 <dorotea> I don't know what either of those are
05:24:04 <MK_FG> Fingerprint and find track metadata things
05:24:25 <MK_FG> Trying to identify some interesting chill-out music from one skyrim mod ;)
05:24:56 <MK_FG> What's "civilizational structure"?
05:25:55 <dorotea> ahh
05:26:03 <dorotea> like china is
05:26:39 <dorotea> not merely a nation, but a several hundred year (thousand, in the case of china) continuous place/people/culture
05:30:20 <dorotea> If you think of china this way, many moves make more sense
05:30:20 <MK_FG> Sounds rather vague
05:30:34 <dorotea> china is a civilization
05:30:35 <dorotea> not a country
05:30:43 <dorotea> it's been around for well over 3000 years
05:30:54 <dorotea> the leadership down to the peasants know that, and treat it as such
05:31:00 <dorotea> does putin view russia this way?
05:33:28 <MK_FG> Regardless of whether he does, fairly sure it's in any gov's best interests to make it look like that ;)
05:33:53 <dorotea> no, because it totally changes how you do things
05:33:58 <dorotea> the US does not view itself this way at all
05:34:10 <dorotea> we do everything for the short term, and we don't remember historical things
05:34:25 <MK_FG> Lies!
05:34:35 <dorotea> :P
05:34:56 <MK_FG> Or I don't get what you mean by that civilization thing
05:35:57 <MK_FG> Because to me US gov seem to be one of the most vocal "we are union! US patriotism! proud american history!" kind of thing
05:36:20 <dorotea> no, that's exactly the opposite
05:36:25 <dorotea> this has nothing to do with nationalism
05:36:46 <dorotea> civilization(alism? fuck me, making up words) is bigger than that
05:37:04 <MK_FG> Um, I don't see anything nationalist in what I've said
05:37:18 <dorotea> "we are union! US patriotism! proud american history!" <-- this is nationalism
05:37:50 <MK_FG> No it's not, nationalism would be "and we are better than everyone else, they are subhuman!"
05:38:06 <dorotea> unless of course you want to change to a philosophy context, at which point nationalism and patriotism become different things
05:38:22 <dorotea> that's one type of nationalism, that isn't "nationalism"
05:38:51 <dorotea> nationalism is viewing your country, with its particularities as better than all others
05:38:53 <MK_FG> Hm, I guess
05:39:08 <MK_FG> Well, yeah, that's what I meant
05:39:21 <MK_FG> But wikipedia says it's just attachement to nation
05:39:24 * dorotea points at macintyre for a good definition of nationalism
05:39:34 <MK_FG> So guess the word means different thing than what I meant
05:39:49 <MK_FG> (and how I interpreted your word)
05:40:02 <dorotea> I don't have a generic definition of nationalism, only the philosophy of nationalism that I've studied
05:40:35 <dorotea> I use macintyre because I like his definitions :P
05:41:03 <dorotea> I really should digitize that speech of his
05:41:29 <MK_FG> Ok, then guess you can mean "regardless of where you are, you are also chinese and hence my kin, I'll help you"
05:42:04 <MK_FG> (or something like that attitude, which seem to be a thing not related to nations)
05:42:17 <dorotea> that's not a bad way to put it. It's not quite what I mean, but that is exactly the effect I'm talking about
05:42:53 <dorotea> crimea is mostly ethnic russian, therefore crimea is putin's people, putin must get the family back together
05:42:55 <dorotea> or something
05:43:06 <dorotea> that sort of thing
05:44:38 <MK_FG> Meh, I think gov here is more pragmatic than that
05:45:12 <MK_FG> But maybe not, don't really know much about local politics
05:45:22 <dorotea> yeah idk
05:45:30 <dorotea> the argument I just said is what he's saying publicly
05:45:44 <dorotea> that of course may have nothing to do with his actual reasons, but still
05:58:21 <MK_FG> Hm, lastfm client also gives mbid, nice
05:59:51 <dorotea> :)
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15:53:35 <joepie91> judging from people being here
15:53:40 <joepie91> the routing issue has been solved
15:53:41 <joepie91> :p
16:16:30 <MK_FG> \o/
16:26:52 <joepie91> 2014-03-02T16:59:48.573923+01:00 linux-rfa7 kernel: [435564.277008] INFO: rcu_preempt detected stalls on CPUs/tasks: {} (detected by 2, t=60002 jiffies, g=38060212, c=38060211, q=0)
16:26:53 <joepie91> 2014-03-02T16:59:48.573943+01:00 linux-rfa7 kernel: [435564.277008] INFO: Stall ended before state dump start
16:26:54 <joepie91> mumble mumble
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16:52:46 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Support ST2.', '02Merge pull request #2891 from CasperLaiTW/masterSupport ST2.' (
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17:09:57 <dorotea> hmm
17:09:58 <dorotea> joepie91:) !
17:10:34 <dorotea> joepie91:) for osx, which password thing should be used?
17:10:48 <dorotea> joepie91:) (lastpass, onepassword, whatever they are)
17:21:48 <joepie91> dorotea: keepassx
17:32:15 <dorotea> joepie91:) thanks! boss is learning how to secure her shit :)
17:34:54 <dorotea> dude, joepie91
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18:01:16 <joepie91> dorotea: okay?
18:01:19 <joepie91> also, ukraine is worrying
18:09:42 <dorotea> worrying is an understatement
18:13:09 <dorotea> joepie91:) pingxmpp
18:14:45 <dorotea> "This is not a threat: This is actually the declaration of war to my country," said Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who heads the pro-Western government that took power in Ukraine after massive protests forced President Viktor Yanukovich, a Russian ally, from power a week ago.
18:14:45 <dorotea> Yatsenyuk’s remarks came as a convoy of Russian troops rolled toward Simferopol, the capital of Ukraine's partially autonomous Crimea region, a day after Russian forces took over the strategic Black Sea peninsula without firing a shot.
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19:21:43 <MK_FG> Yay! Why not invade poland while at it
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19:35:03 <botpie91> 04joepie91 made 5 commit(s) to 03python-whois on branch 10develop: '02Merge branch 'develop'', '02Merge branch 'develop'', '022.0.5 release', '02Make it work with python 3.3', '02Manually merge pullreq #4 due to mistarget' (
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22:24:31 <iceTwy> Not fun, MK_FG
22:24:39 <iceTwy> Our countries might end up being at war o.o
22:25:59 <joepie91> iceTwy: for a very loose definition of 'our'
22:26:19 <iceTwy> hmm? France & Russia
22:26:23 <iceTwy> because NATO vs Russia
22:27:08 <joepie91> iceTwy: I am aware
22:27:18 <joepie91> the loose definition was for 'our', literally :)
22:27:25 <joepie91> it's hardly 'your' country, just the one you happen to live in
22:28:25 <iceTwy> it's not everything but it's still the country you grew up in
22:28:56 <iceTwy> and whether you want it or not you have acquired its culture and the country's general vision of things
22:29:02 <iceTwy> not for everything again
22:29:06 <iceTwy> but yeah, culture
22:31:27 <joepie91> iceTwy: still wouldn't say that that makes it 'your' country :P
22:32:10 <joepie91> also, iceTwy, y u no xmpp
22:32:17 <iceTwy> y U no xmpp ;o
22:32:24 <iceTwy> I sent you a message yesterday
22:32:33 <iceTwy> nevar got a reply :(
22:32:45 <joepie91> wat
22:32:46 <joepie91> it no arrive
22:32:51 <joepie91> and you don't show online atm
22:35:24 <iceTwy> such online now
22:35:26 <iceTwy> wow
22:35:27 <iceTwy> though I'll go to sleep
22:35:30 <iceTwy> so eh
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