Cryto! 23 February 2014
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02:27:48 <monod> iceTwy_znc,
02:27:51 <monod> here I am
02:27:52 <monod> uhm
02:28:02 <monod> privacy policy on data retention/protection
02:28:36 <monod> first thing, I should translate it to Italian, secondly: does not sound like something I know :/
02:28:51 <monod> if it's important I may search for learning more about it
02:29:23 <monod> I now go to sleep
02:29:27 <monod> cya..
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04:51:15 <dorotea> can anybody furnish me with a pdf of this article so I can read it? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/opinion/prodi-how-ukraine-can-be-saved.html
04:51:27 <dorotea> or the text or something
04:51:29 <dorotea> pastebin acceptable
04:52:30 <dorotea> or iceb.in since iceTwy_znc hosts it ;D
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06:56:35 <MK_FG> That's one funny article
06:56:59 <MK_FG> But maybe I don't read enough of press on the thing, so can still be easily amused ;)
07:01:23 <dorotea> my teacher was enraged by it
07:01:25 <dorotea> :D
07:02:04 <dorotea> but, yes, let's let A negotiate with C over B's fate
07:02:05 <dorotea> DERP
07:02:37 * dorotea sleeps
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11:00:45 <joepie91> X11 tunneling is kinda awesome
11:01:34 <joepie91> dorotea:
11:01:36 <joepie91> "But the West must make clear to Moscow that Ukraine â?? a bridge between East and West â?? should not be the object of geopolitical games. "
11:01:49 <joepie91> ah, you mean like discussing over their heads about their fate? those kind of 'geopolitical games'?
11:01:50 <joepie91> >.>
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11:40:41 <iceTwy> seriously
11:41:12 <iceTwy> coming into #crytocc at noon and having ZNC playback the chat history is frankly
11:41:14 <iceTwy> fucking
11:41:16 <iceTwy> amazing
11:58:45 <joepie91> heh
12:08:42 <joepie91> iceTwy: if you want to read about the biggest DRM failure you've never heard of, google for "starforce"
12:08:43 <joepie91> heh
12:09:02 <joepie91> "copy protection" that required installing an unsigned unstable proprietary driver
12:09:03 <iceTwy> isn't that a DRM system using in video games?
12:09:05 <joepie91> to be able to run software
12:09:10 <iceTwy> used*
12:09:13 <joepie91> that was notorious for causing BSODs
12:09:30 <joepie91> after a year or so of complaints, most of the publishers threw in the towel
12:09:35 <joepie91> and published no-CD patches on their own sites
12:09:36 <joepie91> lol
12:09:48 <joepie91> iceTwy: correct
12:09:55 <iceTwy> rofl
12:09:55 <joepie91> a notoriously bad one
12:10:04 <joepie91> SpellForce 2 used it
12:10:22 <joepie91> JoWood was amongst the publishers who eventually were just like "okay, fuck this shit, we've had enough, here's a fucking no-CD patch and now stop bothering us"
12:10:29 <joepie91> lol
12:10:57 <iceTwy> lol
12:11:26 <joepie91> completely unrelated
12:11:30 <joepie91> Tropico has a beautiful disc label
12:11:35 <iceTwy> guuuuuuh
12:11:39 <iceTwy> this is so annoying
12:11:58 <joepie91> half-shiny blue-hued screenshot of the game
12:12:08 <joepie91> age of mythology also has an awesome disc label, pseudo-holographic
12:12:12 <joepie91> iceTwy: what is? :p
12:12:30 <iceTwy> my choices for a 1GB KVM VPS in a country such as Switzerland/Iceland are limited to:
12:12:34 <iceTwy> you name it
12:13:37 <joepie91> well, there's BlueVM in switzerland
12:13:39 <joepie91> but that's still a US company
12:13:56 <iceTwy> ah, right, I forgot that bit
12:14:10 <joepie91> I'm still not sure I understand why you're looking for VPSes there, though
12:14:13 <joepie91> :P
12:14:22 <iceTwy> from either an Icelandic, Swiss, Panaman, Costa-Rican, etc company
12:14:24 <iceTwy> :P
12:14:56 <joepie91> mmmm
12:14:57 <joepie91> sec
12:15:08 <joepie91> (but my question remains)
12:17:40 <joepie91> iceTwy: ?
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12:19:52 <whatsup> hello
12:19:58 <joepie91> .welcome whatsup
12:19:59 <botpie91> whatsup: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
12:20:48 <whatsup> what this channel is about? bitcoin?
12:21:14 <joepie91> it's primarily about development, but pretty much anything goes, as long as it doesn't violate the rules in the topic
12:21:21 <iceTwy> well, the only /reliable/ choice is edis
12:21:39 <whatsup> why no anonymous?
12:21:49 <iceTwy> there's CHVPS but they're shit
12:21:51 <whatsup> are you fignting against anons?
12:21:53 <joepie91> iceTwy: it's still unclear to me why you're looking for VPSes or companies in particular locations
12:22:00 <joepie91> whatsup: no
12:22:10 <iceTwy> joepie91: just for trying those locations lol
12:22:12 <joepie91> it's forbidden as a topic in here, because it caused too many problems in the past
12:22:21 <joepie91> iceTwy: trying, for what purpose? :|
12:22:33 <iceTwy> having an illusory sense of heightened privacy
12:22:39 <iceTwy> ;)
12:22:54 <joepie91> if you recognize that yourself, then I'm not sure why you're still trying :P
12:23:00 <whatsup> i have a question that makes me crazy
12:23:06 <iceTwy> beeeeeeecause it's fun, joepie91
12:23:09 <iceTwy> :p
12:23:13 * joepie91 will be amazed if imaging this disc finishes successfully without read errors
12:23:24 <joepie91> whatsup: if it's about Anonymous, it's better suited to #anonnews
12:23:29 <joepie91> same for cracking
12:23:32 <joepie91> otherwise, ask away
12:23:40 <whatsup> no it s not about anons
12:24:05 <joepie91> Copying data track 1 (MODE1_RAW): start 00:00:00, length 50:17:44 to "cdrom/RollerCoaster Tycoon Added Attractions EU.bin"...
12:24:09 <joepie91> at 33:43 now...
12:24:20 <whatsup> why do millions of ppl obey to few ppl that fuck them
12:24:41 <joepie91> whatsup: the answer to that is complicated, but a key factor is learned helplessness
12:25:06 <whatsup> learned helplessness
12:25:12 <whatsup> firts time i hear about it
12:25:14 <joepie91> .w learned helplessness
12:25:15 <botpie91> Couldn't get any definitions for learned helplessness.
12:25:19 <joepie91> what?
12:25:26 <joepie91> .wik learned helplessness
12:25:27 <botpie91> "Learned helplessness is a mental state in which an organism forced to endure aversive stimuli, or stimuli that are painful or otherwise unpleasant, becomes unable or unwilling to avoid subsequent encounters with those stimuli, even if they are escapable, presumably [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
12:25:34 <joepie91> right, I was using the wrong command :P
12:26:01 <whatsup> very interesting
12:26:45 <joepie91> ... wow, my disc image failed without read errors
12:26:48 * joepie91 is genuinely amazed
12:28:15 <whatsup> thnx joepie91 for the concept
12:29:01 <whatsup> but don t you believe it is also because the majority of ppl are stupid ?
12:29:18 <whatsup> just an hypothesis, i don t believe it myself
12:29:20 <joepie91> whatsup: define "stupid"
12:30:42 <whatsup> stupid: a person that can't change the view of the world he aquared during childhood (by parents, school, media...)
12:30:57 <joepie91> I'd call that "ignorant" rather than "stupid"
12:31:24 <joepie91> and yes, many people -are- ignorant - but the important thing is -why- they are ignorant
12:31:53 <whatsup> ignorant may be curious and search then become less ignorant
12:32:10 <joepie91> yes, and I don't see how that's any different for what you call "stupid" :)
12:32:32 <joepie91> from personal experience, I've found that virtually anybody -can- think about things
12:32:39 <whatsup> ok i ll try to explain
12:32:43 <joepie91> just most of them don't, and usually that's because of things like learned helplessness
12:33:31 <whatsup> what about religious people that believe they are right all the time?
12:33:54 <joepie91> what about them?
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12:38:31 <question> this is whatsup
12:38:36 <joepie91> question: wb :)
12:38:43 <question> sorry its my internet connection
12:39:11 <question> so i said about religious people
12:39:18 <joepie91> <whatsup>what about religious people that believe they are right all the time?
12:39:19 <joepie91> <joepie91>what about them?
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12:39:21 <question> the majority are stupid
12:39:45 <question> its me whatsup :)
12:39:49 <joepie91> question: that has very little to do with religion
12:39:59 <question> yes
12:40:01 <joepie91> plenty of atheists being just as stubborn or ignorant
12:40:03 <joepie91> just about other topics
12:40:09 <question> it has to do with stupidity
12:40:22 <question> i agree
12:40:22 <joepie91> again, I wouldn't call it stupidity
12:40:25 <joepie91> but ignorance
12:40:32 <joepie91> stupidity is too vague of a term really
12:41:04 <question> but an ignorant can be intelligent and curious
12:41:04 <question> he can change his point of view
12:41:15 <question> while a stupid person acnt
12:41:25 <question> this is the big difference
12:41:26 <joepie91> question: I'll repeat what I said before
12:41:32 <joepie91> <joepie91>from personal experience, I've found that virtually anybody -can- think about things
12:41:36 <joepie91> <joepie91>just most of them don't, and usually that's because of things like learned helplessness
12:42:06 <joepie91> the amount of people I've spoken to, who I genuinely believe might not be capable of changing their point of view... I can count it on a single hand
12:42:13 <question> i will do some researchs about learned helplessness
12:42:16 <joepie91> and even then I'm not sure
12:42:37 <joepie91> question: let me give you an example, to better understand my point
12:42:39 <question> but wait joepie91
12:43:09 <joepie91> a lot of older people (say, >40) are having trouble with modern electronics, unsure how to solve problems and so on
12:43:22 <joepie91> and when you help them, they will be completely clueless, and have no idea what you're doing or why
12:43:35 <joepie91> and they'll ask you seemingly stupid questions
12:43:50 <joepie91> ... until you ask them their OWN questions, but phrased differently, so that they don't recognize it as their own question
12:44:00 <joepie91> and they'll immediately answer their own question, almost always correctly
12:44:16 <question> you see what i mean ??
12:44:16 <question> they may be more intelligent than the avarage
12:44:16 <question> in general, people that are open to discution, are generally less tupid
12:44:40 <joepie91> it's not that they don't understand it, or that they are uncapable of understanding it... it's that something is holding them back from -trying- to understand it, some kind of barrier
12:45:02 <joepie91> question: please make sure to read my example carefully, because it's very relevant to your point
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12:47:20 <joepie91> ..
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12:49:24 <question> sorry again
12:49:30 <joepie91> <question>in general, people that are open to discution, are generally less tupid
12:49:31 <joepie91> <joepie91>it's not that they don't understand it, or that they are uncapable of understanding it... it's that something is holding them back from -trying- to understand it, some kind of barrier
12:49:31 <joepie91> <joepie91>question: please make sure to read my example carefully, because it's very relevant to your point
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12:49:31 <joepie91> wb
12:49:33 <question> the fucking connection
12:50:35 <question> and this barrier is the learned helplessness ?
12:50:51 <question> or it is more general ?
12:50:58 <joepie91> question: not in the case of older people not understanding technology
12:51:03 <joepie91> the barrier is different depending on topic
12:51:08 <joepie91> and there might be more than one barrier in some cases
12:51:15 <joepie91> but it's the same concept in the end
12:51:45 <joepie91> learned helplessness is one of the barriers when it comes to understanding/accepting how the world functions etc.
12:52:15 <question> joepie91: have you ever tried to convince a person who believe god exists, paradise, hell ...
12:52:16 <joepie91> I guess that, to summarize it, it's not that people *can't* understand it, but they don't *want* to understand it (or believe they can't)
12:52:34 <joepie91> I have had a memorable discussion with a very religious person
12:52:40 <joepie91> at the local occupy camp, a few years ago
12:52:48 <question> lol
12:53:00 <joepie91> the discussion ended at both of us acknowledging that neither of us could really know for sure
12:53:12 <joepie91> and that both of us took the path that seemed to provide the best results
12:53:14 <question> lol
12:53:42 <question> i tried once
12:54:26 <joepie91> question: the trick is taking away the barriers for people
12:54:26 <question> finally i said to the guy i am not sure about the evolution theory (as theoretically nothing is 100% true)
12:54:38 <joepie91> recognizing the barriers, and taking them awya
12:54:40 <joepie91> away *
12:54:58 <question> the guy responded to me: so take my reality, i am sure god exists :)
12:55:37 <joepie91> question: I've been doing a lot of discussing in the past few years... I sort of specialize myself in psychology / social engineering, which is one of the reasons I discuss so much
12:55:47 <joepie91> both to understand how people think, and to experiment with how to affect that thinking
12:56:06 <joepie91> a subtle difference in how you bring things, can completely change how somebody responds to it
12:56:16 <question> have you written some articles about it?
12:56:37 <joepie91> you may very well have brought up the same point as I did, and even the slightest difference might make it work for me but not for you (or the other way around, I'm not under the impression that I do everything perfectly :P)
12:56:40 <joepie91> well, kind of
12:56:41 <question> i see what you mean
12:56:53 <joepie91> my blog has a bunch of stuff: http://cryto.net/~joepie91/blog/
12:56:58 <joepie91> some of those also touch on psychology
12:57:22 <joepie91> anti-solutionism and "but we have to do something" are probably the most obvious ones
12:57:40 <question> but i am not really convinced
12:58:17 <question> why not all ppl have that kind of "barrier" ??
12:58:37 <joepie91> because people live and grow up in different environments
12:58:54 <question> many ppl that are initially religious finish by being atheist
12:58:58 <joepie91> so either the barrier might never have been created (because of something not happening in their life)
12:59:03 <joepie91> or it might've been broken down by some past experience
12:59:15 <joepie91> right
12:59:26 <joepie91> if you discuss the topic with people who went atheist after a while
12:59:32 <joepie91> you'll find that it was a long and hard process
12:59:36 <joepie91> for them
12:59:39 <question> lol
12:59:44 <joepie91> (exceptions exist, but as a general rule of thumb)
12:59:54 <question> yes i see
13:00:00 <joepie91> say that somebody took 5 years to become an atheist
13:00:08 <question> they fighten against the barrier
13:00:11 <joepie91> for 4 of those, to just make a rough guess, as an outsider they would've looked "ignorant"
13:00:13 <joepie91> or "stupid"
13:00:32 <question> but
13:00:43 <joepie91> that doesn't mean that they're incapable of changing their viewpoints... they just haven't gotten there yet
13:01:14 <question> but they have something ppl in general dont
13:01:24 <joepie91> like what?
13:01:28 <question> some kind of curiosity
13:01:36 <question> or courage
13:01:37 <joepie91> I disagree
13:01:50 <joepie91> I've seen virtually everybody have that, it's just often not obvious
13:01:54 <joepie91> look
13:02:04 <joepie91> the thing is that you're looking at things like a 'snapshot'
13:02:12 <joepie91> either somebody is curious, or they're not
13:02:15 <joepie91> that's not how people work
13:02:24 <joepie91> if you look around you again in 5 years
13:02:32 <joepie91> then suddenly you will see "open-minded" people who you would've called stubborn today
13:03:00 <joepie91> that they still look stubborn today, doesn't mean that they don't _have_ that curiosity - it's just either not triggered, or not finished
13:03:02 <question> ok i see :)
13:03:39 <question> so why not all people can surmont the barrier ?
13:03:45 <question> ??
13:03:48 <joepie91> what makes you think they can't?
13:03:59 <question> maybe they can
13:04:09 <question> but they dont do
13:04:19 <joepie91> not yet, no
13:04:30 <joepie91> and that can be for any amount of reasons
13:04:34 <joepie91> either they're still "working on it"
13:04:41 <question> many ppl age and dy ignorant
13:04:44 <joepie91> or they need some help to look at it from another point of view
13:04:48 <joepie91> etc.
13:04:57 <joepie91> I'm again not sure I would agree with that
13:05:20 <question> once
13:05:24 <joepie91> if you talk to somebody who's 60-70 years old, you'll often find that they understand the problems in society perfectly well
13:05:31 <question> yes
13:05:37 <joepie91> they've just run out of energy to do anything about them
13:06:17 <question> once
13:06:38 <question> i tried to explain how money is crated
13:06:42 <question> *created
13:06:48 <question> to a friend
13:07:45 <joepie91> question: have you tried asking questions, instead of giving explanations?
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13:09:00 <question_> he finlly understood
13:09:16 <joepie91> you disconnected
13:09:26 <question_> but he told me he cant explain that to an other person
13:09:28 <joepie91> last I got before you disconnected: <question>to a friend
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13:09:50 <question_> yes it s because of the fucking tor
13:10:02 <question_> lol
13:10:09 <joepie91> TOR is usually not -that- unstable :P
13:10:27 <question_> that s strange
13:10:40 <joepie91> try renewing the circuit and connecting again
13:10:43 <question_> maybe nsa tries to censore my :)
13:10:45 <joepie91> perhaps you'll get a more stable route
13:10:57 <joepie91> doubtful
13:11:10 <question_> i tried many times
13:11:22 <question_> but it doesnt matter
13:11:31 <question_> i mean
13:11:47 <question_> i tried to explain thing to my ex girlfriend
13:12:05 <question_> she was studying economics
13:12:25 <question_> she does even not listened to me
13:12:43 <question_> she has just repeated: that is false !!
13:13:04 <joepie91> right
13:13:07 <joepie91> before you disconnected:
13:13:08 <joepie91> <joepie91>question: have you tried asking questions, instead of giving explanations?
13:13:14 <question_> just because some ppl form righ extrem talk about it
13:13:28 <question_> no
13:13:33 <joepie91> try it some time
13:13:37 <joepie91> ask her to explain how money is created
13:13:42 <joepie91> ask about the nitty-gritty details
13:13:48 <joepie91> about everything that seems unclear
13:13:49 <question_> i asked
13:13:55 <joepie91> eventually she'll realize "uh, I can't actually explain this"
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13:14:10 <question_> she saied it is difficult to understand lol
13:14:20 <joepie91> the barrier here is almost certainly that she thinks that she knows everything about the financial system, so no matter what anybody says, it will always be wrong, because "she already knows"
13:14:32 <joepie91> by asking questions about the nitty gritty details that she can't answer, you 'break' that barrier
13:14:35 <joepie91> and then you can have a real discussion
13:14:45 <joepie91> she'd just have to realize that she doesn't know everything
13:14:56 <MK_FG> can have a real discussion or get dumped :P
13:15:12 <joepie91> lol MK_FG
13:15:28 <question_> joepie91: maybe you re right
13:15:41 <question_> it needs more energy
13:15:47 <question_> more time
13:16:03 <joepie91> question_: this is what I mean with "recognizing and breaking barriers" - you need to try and understand -why- people refuse to listen, -what- is holding them back, and try to break that down... it requires a lot of time and energy and experimenting, but it's absolutely worth it
13:16:08 <joepie91> yes
13:16:46 <joepie91> fwiw, people usually call these barriers a 'bias' - but most people will interpret that term as something differently
13:16:51 <joepie91> which is why I call it a barrier
13:17:39 <question_> i need to think about this theory of barrier a time
13:17:50 <joepie91> take your time :)
13:18:12 <question_> do you know why amerandian refused slavery
13:18:25 <question_> and africans accepted it ?
13:18:33 <joepie91> amerandian?
13:18:49 <question_> i mean original people of the actual usa
13:18:53 <joepie91> ah
13:19:04 <joepie91> I have no idea, I'm not familiar enough with the history of that
13:19:16 <joepie91> but if I had to take a wild guess, it was probably related to weapons in some way
13:19:52 <joepie91> but yeah, wild guess
13:19:54 <question_> amerindian was exterminated because they disobeid
13:20:45 <question_> the question of slavery has nothing to do with barrier
13:21:35 <joepie91> as I said, I don't know enough about the topic to comment :P
13:22:33 whatsup (whatsup@cryto-91A00DD0.torservers.net) has joined #crytocc
13:22:44 <whatsup> its me question_
13:22:52 <whatsup> i saied
13:23:35 <whatsup> dying right now
13:23:36 <whatsup> or being slave all your life untell you die
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13:23:51 <whatsup> if you have to chose between
13:24:06 <whatsup> you must be stupid to take the first choice
13:24:07 <anonO_o> oooh
13:24:12 <anonO_o> hai
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13:24:57 <whatsup> there is something different between africans and amerindians
13:25:57 <whatsup> joepie91: how do you understant accepting slavery?
13:26:48 <joepie91> whatsup: I really don't know much about the history of slavery; but in a generic sense, there could be many reasons for choosing to die over choosing to be a slave
13:26:53 <anonO_o> joe <3
13:27:13 <joepie91> honour/pride, religious belief, spite...
13:27:16 <joepie91> ohai anonO_o
13:27:30 <whatsup> ok i see what you mean
13:29:11 <whatsup> i would like to creat a privite channel about the NSA
13:29:24 <whatsup> anybody is interested to talk about
13:29:52 <whatsup> i mean a non public channel about nsa
13:34:17 <joepie91> goddamnit
13:34:21 <joepie91> bicycle got stolen
13:35:00 <joepie91> whatsup: how do you mean a "non public" channel?
13:35:33 <whatsup> joepie91: it is because you said to me this channel is public
13:36:06 <joepie91> whatsup: it's publicly logged
13:36:12 <joepie91> that is, searchable through Google
13:36:18 <joepie91> and logs are accessible to anybody
13:36:28 <joepie91> but realistically, a 'private IRC channel' is not really possible
13:36:51 <whatsup> so that is not the right place to talk about nsa
13:37:00 <anonO_o> there is no right place :)
13:37:12 <anonO_o> i's everywhere
13:37:31 <whatsup> ok so lets talk about it here
13:38:21 <whatsup> dont you believe the nsa is less powerfull than expected after the leaks of snowden?
13:38:28 <whatsup> i mean
13:38:35 <whatsup> a year ago
13:39:11 <whatsup> i read something like the nsa have a quantum computer and can broke any kind of encryption
13:39:55 <anonO_o> I wouldn't be naive enough to believe that the NSA or the US is going to stop or reduce its incursion into the world's lives in the name of its own security
13:40:17 <anonO_o> if anything, more will happen, just this time there won't be snowdens to leak it as much
13:40:50 <anonO_o> you don't give up fiber connects because someone is whining about their phone messages
13:41:01 <whatsup> lol
13:41:35 <whatsup> be what about the capacities of this fucking agency
13:41:38 <whatsup> dont you believe they are weak?
13:41:55 <anonO_o> their only weakness is the use of Microsoft Powerpoint
13:42:02 <whatsup> be what about the capacities of this fucking agency
13:42:08 <whatsup> they just use some fucking hakers and money
13:42:18 <whatsup> lol
13:42:54 <whatsup> no terrible advanced computer
13:43:26 <whatsup> no specific technology to broke encription
13:43:34 <whatsup> ...
13:43:36 <whatsup> ...
13:43:36 <whatsup> you see what i mean?
13:43:57 <anonO_o> no. money is an amazingly powerful thing.
13:44:42 <anonO_o> so is social engineering, blackmail, and a hammer on your knees
13:45:12 <whatsup> i dont understand how some hacker can sell themselfs as bitches to the nsa
13:46:20 <suller_> Bingo! they are bitches .
13:46:34 <whatsup> what is the budget of this fucking agency?
13:47:15 <whatsup> i hope the percentage of bitches among hackers is not very high
13:47:17 <anonO_o> lol
13:47:23 <anonO_o> LOL
13:48:36 <anonO_o> no one will ever know what the NSA budgets really are
13:49:06 <whatsup> before snowden revelations
13:49:35 <whatsup> i used to believe they have a kind of secrete spying technology
13:49:49 <whatsup> given the money they have access to
13:50:44 <whatsup> now i discover the use the same technics as a ordinary hacker
13:50:52 <whatsup> *they use
13:51:22 <suller_> If the good hackers just stand by,the percentage will be higher and higher.
13:52:03 <whatsup> and they take personnal data from some fucking companies like google and facebook
13:52:26 <anonO_o> s/some/all/g
13:53:47 <joepie91> whats: they use the same techniques... except they have access to fiber optic cables, and a lot of funding to buy exploits
13:54:07 <joepie91> that's their "edge"
13:54:17 <whatsup> suller: maybe that is the explaination
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13:59:14 * suller_ shrugs "The greatest talkers are always least doers." including me
14:00:30 <whatsup> lol
14:01:39 <suller_> sometimes it's a balance maybe ,but who knows
14:02:12 <MK_FG> Another "edge" might be that you can't really refuse to cooperate with these agencies easily/legitimately
14:02:37 <whatsup> suller_: what do you mean by a balance?
14:02:57 <joepie91> well, this is what is left of my bicycle lock: http://owely.com/91pcbWO
14:04:43 <whatsup> joepie91: this is the crisis, people with no transport mean steal bicycles
14:04:53 <joepie91> whatsup: ... no, it's not
14:05:05 <whatsup> ???
14:05:05 <joepie91> I live in the Netherlands
14:05:11 <joepie91> bicycle theft is a constant problem here
14:05:14 <joepie91> and has been for as long as I can remember
14:05:27 <joepie91> because there's so many, and everybody wants/uses them
14:06:21 <whatsup> ok so maybe the person will bring back the bicycle :)
14:07:04 <joepie91> whatsup: what makes you think that?
14:07:27 <whatsup> i am kidding !!
14:07:35 <suller_> black & white white are elites but number is less while black are more but low in the tech (sry about my sick rhyme)
14:08:36 <whatsup> suller_: who is who ??
14:10:29 <suller_> good guys(white) & bitches(black)
14:10:40 <suller_> not color of hats
14:10:45 <whatsup> loool
14:11:23 <whatsup> i see what you mean
14:12:07 <whatsup> what about the 600 "elite hackers" of nsa ?
14:13:14 <suller_> some good guys mixed with bitches
14:15:31 <iceTwy> dorotea: PING PING PING
14:16:28 <iceTwy> botpie91: tell dorotea that his first cherry pie (https://twitter.com/Aranjedeath/status/405920826345541632/photo/1) looked delicious (.. while it existed)
14:16:28 <botpie91> iceTwy: I'll pass that on when dorotea is around.
14:17:38 <whatsup> guys
14:17:53 <whatsup> it seems that twitter is censoring
14:18:04 j0rd4n23 has parted #crytocc ()
14:18:06 <iceTwy> err
14:18:09 <iceTwy> is GitHub down?
14:18:16 <joepie91> whatsup: that's a very generic statement
14:18:24 <joepie91> iceTwy: self-hosted git users not affected
14:18:25 <joepie91> :P
14:18:29 <joepie91> but nah, it works here
14:18:33 <joepie91> .title http://github.com/
14:18:34 <botpie91> joepie91: GitHub · Build software better, together.
14:18:38 <iceTwy> hm
14:19:02 <whatsup> now it is blocked
14:19:04 <whatsup> i created an account to talk about politics in arabic world last few days
14:20:17 <joepie91> whatsup: "censorship" is not only a very generic statement, it's also a very serious accusation
14:20:29 <joepie91> you really need to understand what occurred before you call something censorship
14:20:51 <MK_FG> joepie91, Of course self-hosted users are affected ;)
14:21:08 <MK_FG> joepie91, Everyone uses at least one thing that's hosted on gh!
14:21:10 <whatsup> i really dont understand why twitter blocked my account
14:21:34 <whatsup> i written to them a message, but i have no answer from them
14:21:41 <joepie91> whatsup: they'll respond eventually
14:21:58 <joepie91> MK_FG: I'm refering primarily to own repos not being affected
14:22:06 <joepie91> and the point of git is that you have a local copy
14:22:07 <joepie91> :)
14:22:20 <iceTwy> ermahgerd
14:22:23 <iceTwy> can't access github
14:22:29 <MK_FG> CENSORSHIP
14:22:37 * iceTwy jumps from the 10th floor of his building
14:22:46 <MK_FG> MARTYRDOM
14:23:06 <iceTwy> like
14:23:09 <iceTwy> status.github.com is fine
14:23:12 <iceTwy> but github.com is down
14:23:34 <MK_FG> Which IP it gives you?
14:23:41 <whatsup> lol
14:25:49 <whatsup> i hate twitter
14:25:56 <whatsup> i hate twitter
14:26:36 <iceTwy> 192.30.252.128 MK_FG
14:26:45 <iceTwy> but pinging github.com works
14:26:51 <MK_FG> Try 192.30.252.130
14:26:53 <MK_FG> Oh
14:27:01 <MK_FG> Anyway, /away
14:27:53 <iceTwy> GITHUB I NEED YOU
14:28:00 <iceTwy> :'-
14:28:02 <iceTwy> (
14:29:00 <iceTwy> it works
14:29:02 <iceTwy> yeeeeeeees
14:29:28 <whatsup> i written a message to twitter two weeks ago and i still have no answer on why they blocked my account
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15:04:58 <monod> hellou
15:05:00 <monod> studying!
16:52:09 DrWhat (Ana.Conda@DrWhat.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
16:52:20 <DrWhat> loggy, pointer?
16:52:20 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2014-02-23#T16-52-20
16:55:22 <joepie91> ohai DrWhat
16:56:48 AnonyOps (anonyops@cryto-A442532E.cinci.res.rr.com) has joined #crytocc
16:59:13 <DrWhat> Hi joepie91
16:59:40 <joepie91> hai AnonyOps!
16:59:57 <AnonyOps> hai!
17:07:58 <joepie91> AnonyOps: do you use XMPP?
17:07:58 <joepie91> :P
17:08:19 <AnonyOps> No :/
17:09:09 <joepie91> AnonyOps: boo
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17:20:18 <dorotea> hahaha iceTwy_znc did you like my cherry pie :D
17:20:19 <botpie91> dorotea: 14:16Z <iceTwy> tell dorotea that his first cherry pie (https://twitter.com/Aranjedeath/status/405920826345541632/photo/1) looked delicious (.. while it existed)
17:20:54 <dorotea> (It was)
17:21:50 <dorotea> AnonyOps:) you should use xmpp!
17:22:27 <AnonyOps> I don't do enough chatting to really need it
17:25:32 <dorotea> that's a chicken and egg problem
17:26:39 <dorotea> also, lulz, I am so not reading all that backlog
17:26:56 <dorotea> people who continually confuse stupidity with ignorance NOPE
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18:27:54 <iceTwy> yeah dorotea
18:28:01 <iceTwy> I did like dat cherry pie
18:28:12 <iceTwy> okay so I'm in a bit of an existential crisis-y mood
18:28:24 <iceTwy> what hostname should I pick for mein neue VPS
18:28:55 <joepie91> iceTwy: wicety
18:30:07 <iceTwy> lols
18:30:13 <iceTwy> o no
18:30:17 <iceTwy> I think I'll pick "revelation"
18:30:20 <iceTwy> sounds great
18:32:11 <iceTwy> debian must be tripping or something
18:32:29 <iceTwy> I chose the French keyboard layout and it isn't even AZERTY, apparently
18:33:48 <iceTwy> or QEMU is just being weird
18:33:49 <iceTwy> lol
18:45:48 <dorotea> lol
18:45:54 <dorotea> it was a delicious pie
18:46:10 <dorotea> we made it with low-sugar filling, which was amazing
18:49:31 <dorotea> NP: [Tenacious D - Beelzeboss (The Final Showdown)] [The Pick of Destiny] [970kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.6.0
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18:52:28 <dorotea> best reverse address
19:20:34 <dorotea> you're talking about vps's?
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20:48:14 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Build for St2/St3', '02Merge pull request #2868 from seregatte/masterBuild for St2/St3' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/f1f6467189...e171c1bdf9)
20:49:15 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Added Craft-Twig to Package Control', '02Merge pull request #2867 from BarrelStrength/masterAdded Craft-Twig to Package Control' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/e171c1bdf9...e11dcc9b3a)
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21:01:40 <dorotea> man, where do all these fascists come from
21:02:46 suller (suller@3CA511B7.74604AD.4E960128.IP) has joined #crytocc
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21:05:23 <joepie91> dorotea: ?
21:14:30 suller has quit (Ping timeout)
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21:53:20 <dorotea> joepie91:) ukraine, venezuela
21:55:21 <joepie91> ah
21:55:29 <joepie91> dorotea: now is the time to grab power, apparently
21:55:36 <dorotea> the answer for venezuela is clear
21:55:41 <dorotea> but less so for ukraine
21:55:45 <dorotea> yeah
21:56:03 <dorotea> It's just
21:56:14 <dorotea> "yes let us overthrow a democratically elected president"
21:56:17 <dorotea> because that's democracy
21:56:19 <dorotea> :|
21:56:28 * Sabit appears
21:56:36 * dorotea goes to replace crankset, brakelines
22:00:46 * joepie91 observers Sabit appearing
22:00:51 <joepie91> ...
22:00:53 <joepie91> observes
22:01:02 <joepie91> dorotea; https://soundcloud.com/aleksander-vinter/ism-midi
22:01:12 <Sabit> engrish 2 hard
22:05:07 <complex> democracy is bullshit anyways
22:06:24 <Sabit> democracy is the most effective to kill the least people
22:06:32 <joepie91> Sabit: [citation needed]
22:06:40 <complex> yeah, its kind of right
22:06:43 <Sabit> lemme look for it
22:08:47 <complex> democracy is also kind of dependent on people not chosing to break the moral in the society. using all their lives to discuss with people not willing to agree, instead of just killing them
22:09:11 <Sabit> blah can't find it atm
22:09:29 <Sabit> i had a greek history cram session with one of my teachers about it
22:09:48 <Sabit> ill ask him for sources
22:09:53 <joepie91> Sabit: how many forms of society were discussed?
22:10:05 <Sabit> 4 or 5
22:10:06 <joepie91> and how did you account for slight variations in social models?
22:10:08 <joepie91> lol
22:10:14 <joepie91> that's nowhere NEAR big enough of a test set
22:10:20 <Sabit> nah
22:10:20 <joepie91> to make any determination about "most effective"
22:10:28 <Sabit> cuz i'm in a club called history bowl
22:10:42 <Sabit> and we just basically regurgitate information
22:10:50 <Sabit> oh and that statement was made by plato i think
22:11:00 <Sabit> except with more finesse i suppose
22:11:01 <joepie91> it could've been uttered by einstein for all I care
22:11:04 <Sabit> or maybe not
22:11:09 <joepie91> sources or gtfo :P
22:11:21 <joepie91> and even IF you had a sufficiently sized testing set
22:11:26 <joepie91> you could still not make such a statement
22:11:32 <joepie91> as there might be models that have never been considered
22:11:43 <joepie91> thus you could at most say "the most efficient model we've used so far"
22:11:48 <joepie91> but not "the most efficient model"
22:12:34 complex has quit (Input/output error)
22:13:00 <Sabit> :<
22:13:21 <Sabit> i shouldve placed quotes around it
22:13:48 <joepie91> lol
22:14:16 <joepie91> to further complicate the issue, "killing least people" isn't exactly a very good metric for the health of a society
22:14:19 <joepie91> :)
22:15:00 <Sabit> no more copmlications pls
22:30:51 <monod> hey Sabit
22:31:00 <monod> what's that '' ?
22:31:05 <Sabit> idk
22:31:10 <monod> you see that very often in the internet nowadays
22:31:19 <Sabit> unknown character
22:31:31 <Sabit> it just pops up when i type sometimes
22:31:33 <monod> yea, but more and more random people is using that :D
22:31:36 <monod> oh
22:31:50 <monod> Corrupted input! Corrupted input!
22:31:54 <Sabit> :(
22:31:58 <Sabit> time to get a new keyboard
22:32:31 <monod> dunno
22:32:40 <Sabit> idk
22:32:45 <Sabit> im running windows 8
22:32:50 <monod> I was conspiring about corrupted transmission channel :D
22:32:55 <Sabit> :
22:33:12 <Sabit> hmm it seems to always appear when i press shift
22:33:20 <Sabit> sometimes..
22:33:21 <monod> O_O
22:33:31 <Sabit> im confused
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23:02:05 <monod> .title http://anonnews.org/forum/post/17284
23:02:07 <botpie91> monod: AnonNews.org : Everything Anonymous
23:02:12 <monod> lulz
23:05:19 * joepie91 swears
23:05:22 <joepie91> fucking sass broke
23:05:33 <joepie91> monod: don't post that here please
23:05:46 <monod> oh sorry
23:05:47 Belladona has quit (User quit: Saliendo)
23:05:53 <monod> I just wanted to read the title before opening
23:06:05 <joepie91> botpie is in #anonnews as well
23:06:40 <monod> oh really
23:06:43 <monod> haven't noticed
23:06:46 <monod> sorry twice :S
23:17:17 <dorotea> ahh yes, trying to get deeply paywalled articles out for classroom use
23:17:23 <dorotea> it reminds me how far we have yet to go
23:17:51 * dorotea puts in formal request for access
23:18:08 <dorotea> lol@that music, joepie91
23:19:40 <joepie91> this is amazing: https://soundcloud.com/aleksander-vinter/savant-super-sheriff
23:19:44 <joepie91> cc dorotea
23:20:04 <joepie91> this guy seems to be able to work with any kind of music
23:20:07 <joepie91> talented as fuck
23:29:40 <dorotea> heh
23:29:42 <dorotea> yeah
23:30:44 <dorotea> ugh
23:30:47 <dorotea> I cant remove my pedals
23:30:57 <dorotea> this presents problems for putting a new crankset on :|
23:40:23 <dorotea> adjusted my front brake line so it'll last longer
23:40:24 <dorotea> :>
23:43:14 <joepie91> dorotea: bah, you're reminding my of my bicycle
23:43:17 <joepie91> me *
23:47:38 <iceTwy> alright
23:47:39 <iceTwy> there we go
23:47:43 <iceTwy> new box for iceb.in
23:47:58 <iceTwy> rsync made the transition.. smooth. that's the least I can say
23:48:05 <iceTwy> cc dorotea
23:48:08 <iceTwy> & joepie91 ^
23:50:58 <joepie91> yay
23:52:39 <iceTwy> hmm. I won't need my awesome (GNU) screen setup anymore
23:52:51 <iceTwy> it was quite a killer setup
23:52:57 <joepie91> iceTwy: what was it for?
23:53:05 <iceTwy> well basically
23:57:31 <joepie91> ahh