Cryto! 14 February 2014
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02:57:06 <dorotea> fuck
02:57:10 <dorotea> tonight's gonna be a shitshow
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03:23:56 <dorotea> joepie91:) good rant on the mozilla post
03:24:21 <dorotea> joepie91:) I always steal quotes from http://www.textfiles.com/thoughts/advertising.html
03:24:50 <dorotea> most often: "This is a very, very powerful message, if you don't notice the Pimp behind it."
03:31:24 <dorotea> speaking of pimps, it's time for wow
03:31:51 <dorotea> I spell my name with two D's, for a double dose of my pimp action
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08:06:22 <AnonyOps> @joepie91
08:06:28 <AnonyOps> You up?
08:57:00 <joepie91> aw yeah
08:57:07 <joepie91> Congratulations! The node CrytoDotNet4 (id: 00F1 2AB0 35D6 2C91 9A1F 37C2 A671 44F1 7ACC 9E75) you've been observing has been running for 61 days with an average bandwidth of 1595 KB/s,which makes the operator eligible to receive an official Tor T-shirt!
08:57:26 <joepie91> AnonyOps: yes, hai
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10:10:39 <joepie91> huh.
10:10:40 <joepie91> http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/7-patents-held-by-the-nsa-from-data-center-manholes-to-1522133418/+mattnovak
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13:20:11 <MarcosSMBT> Howdy
13:36:56 <joepie91> .welcome MarcosSMBT
13:36:57 <botpie91> MarcosSMBT: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
13:36:58 <joepie91> and hai :)
13:38:30 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Marked Objective-C Autocompletion ready for Sublime Text 3', '02Merge pull request #2829 from oliverseal/masterMarked Objective-C Autocompletion ready for Sublime Text 3' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/e51d397fea...6d482d77c0)
13:41:02 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Add Packages: Theme - amCoder.', '02Merge pull request #2831 from auiWorks/masterAdd Packages: Theme - amCoder' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/6d482d77c0...63967486c2)
13:41:32 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02OmniDocs now supports ST2', '02Merge pull request #2832 from bordaigorl/masterOmniDocs now supports ST2' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/63967486c2...94cc35c683)
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15:47:24 <joepie91> dorotea: hey look, Pando linked to my post: http://pando.com/2014/02/10/blame-game-embattled-mt-gox-points-to-flaws-in-bitcoin-protocol-bitcoin-community-calls-bs/
16:01:50 <joepie91> FREE DUNGEON KEEPER! http://www.gog.com/
16:02:32 <dorotea> joepie91:) :D
16:02:57 <dorotea> carney.... I forget if that's one of the nsfwcorp people
16:03:09 <dorotea> I think not, since the lede photo is not hand-drawn
16:03:32 <dorotea> (that's how you can tell if it's nsfwcorp inside pando)
16:03:39 monod (monod@cryto-9B87BA4D.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #crytocc
16:03:50 <monod> hey there
16:04:02 <monod> joepie91, I come just to say one thing to you, one thing you need to know :D
16:04:08 <joepie91> ohai monod
16:04:30 <monod> (finding the words on the vocabulary :) )
16:04:38 <monod> (lol)
16:04:46 <joepie91> monod: before I forget, you can get dungeon keeper for free at GOG now
16:04:47 <joepie91> http://www.gog.com/
16:04:49 <dorotea> oooh
16:04:49 <joepie91> (drm-free, too)
16:05:01 <monod> :o
16:05:08 <dorotea> it would be so peachy-keen if they removed magicaltux from btc foundation
16:05:09 <monod> I'll check that
16:05:40 <monod> DNS server problems though
16:06:08 <monod> I can't resolve IP address unless I... ping domain names? Like if Firefox is the only one to have the problem
16:06:18 <monod> (actually, iceweasel, on Debian)
16:06:19 <dorotea> decent article, by the links
16:06:27 * dorotea didn't read the article, just the links :D
16:06:44 <joepie91> monod: weird
16:06:55 <monod> I fear of some security issue
16:07:19 <monod> nslookup wordreference.com
16:07:19 <monod> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
16:07:19 <monod> D:
16:07:28 <joepie91> security issues are usually not something you notice
16:07:32 <joepie91> by design
16:07:33 <joepie91> :P
16:07:47 <joepie91> monod: try setting different DNS servers
16:07:53 <joepie91> such as (the evil) 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
16:07:59 <monod> yet I know that my iceweasel version can't update since a few days and I have a reminder popping out at every boot of debian
16:08:02 <monod> ops
16:08:04 <dorotea> evil and easy as fuck and doesn't nxdomain
16:08:06 <monod> I'm using the evil one
16:08:19 <monod> nxdomain, what's that?
16:08:27 <dorotea> level3 nxdomain hijacks, joepie91
16:08:33 <monod> and why is that an evil one?
16:08:40 <dorotea> 4.2.2.x, they all hijack now
16:08:41 <joepie91> dorotea: 8.8.8.8 -does- nxdomain
16:08:42 <joepie91> that's a feature
16:08:43 <joepie91> :P
16:08:48 <joepie91> monod: it's google
16:08:49 <monod> bleargh
16:08:53 <dorotea> joepie91:) when? I've never once seen it
16:08:57 <monod> indeed, that's why I considered it evil too!
16:09:02 <joepie91> dorotea: NXDOMAIN == the response returned when doesn't exist
16:09:03 <monod> (because of google's)
16:09:05 <joepie91> that's what you want
16:09:17 <joepie91> what you DON'T want is a spoofed response instead of NXDOMAIN
16:09:19 <joepie91> like l3 does
16:09:26 <dorotea> joepie91:) stop picking at my words, I used hijack later for a reason
16:09:36 <monod> any link to learn more about these hijacks?
16:09:48 <monod> these specific ones
16:09:50 <monod> l3 nxdomani
16:09:51 <joepie91> dorotea: my original response was before your correction...
16:09:54 <monod> domain*
16:10:01 <monod> oh wait, I'll just google them
16:10:03 <monod> lulz
16:10:09 <joepie91> monod: the short version is that if you use level3's DNS servers, they will show you ad/search pages when a domain doesn't exist
16:10:13 <joepie91> by pretending that the domain DOES exist
16:10:18 <joepie91> and pointing at their own servers
16:10:22 <joepie91> which breaks an incredible amount of shit
16:10:25 <joepie91> and is very annoying
16:10:26 <dorotea> joepie91:) do you have extremely high latency? because I used correct terminology twice before you responded even once
16:10:27 <monod> oh
16:10:36 <joepie91> dorotea: quite possibly
16:10:51 <monod> by the way he only has Fiber :D
16:11:00 <dorotea> ah
16:11:08 <joepie91> monod: but yeah, try using 8.8.8.8... and I'm still waiting for what you wanted to say :D
16:11:15 <monod> don't know if you know about the latency though, dorotea :D
16:11:42 <monod> joepie91, of course! because I wanted to find words on wordreference.com XD I'll try and do it without dictionary then
16:11:54 <joepie91> alright
16:12:08 <monod> I kinda "learned", or understood, the importance of open source thanks to you stressing it very much.
16:12:14 <monod> whoa, words found.
16:12:23 <monod> that's a short version
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16:12:48 <monod> that is: I wanted to say that your stressing of open-source's importance has made me wonder about things
16:12:59 <monod> and I found an example in which open-source would DEFINITELY make a huge difference
16:13:07 <monod> like in.... public administration!
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16:14:16 <monod> and still no DNS response with 8.8.4.4 too
16:15:41 <monod> I can engleesh!
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16:16:50 <dorotea> I like that they're referring to silicon valley tech firms as having "an incestuous board of directors"
16:19:51 <joepie91> botpie91, tell monod "awesome :)"
16:19:52 <botpie91> joepie91: I'll pass that on when monod is around.
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16:25:23 <monod> uhm
16:25:23 <botpie91> monod: 16:19Z <joepie91> tell monod "awesome :)"
16:25:35 <monod> router rebooted and all seems to work fine again
16:26:15 <monod> alright
16:26:18 <monod> cya later!
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17:11:35 <dorotea> shit's scary man, comcast is trying to buy time warner cable
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17:23:55 <dorotea> man
17:24:01 <dorotea> something is broke as shit in iceweasel
17:24:21 <dorotea> it's just LOL NETWORKING WHAT IS THAT all over my face
17:25:45 <joepie91> dorotea: :(
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17:26:21 <DrWhat> 4Cuddling joepie91 ..feel the warmth and softness of her body slowly ... up its own approach to his lips and whispering says:"..If i won`t kiss you now I do not know when I will have the courage to do it again..."...at the end....4i will kiss you gently
17:27:13 <DrWhat> 4Wishes for his sweetest Love13 joepie91
17:27:13 <DrWhat> 11,1HAPPY ST VALENTINES DAY!!
17:27:13 <DrWhat> 4Gives a present of 12,1BACI PERUGINA a13 joepie91
17:29:03 <joepie91> her?
17:29:21 <joepie91> that said, /me cuddles
17:30:08 <DrWhat> Gernric message :/
17:30:32 <dorotea> joepie91:) yeah it's annoying as fuck. I reported a bug to medium, but I think iceweasel's at fault
17:30:42 <dorotea> Idk what debian did to it, but man is it fucked
17:31:07 <joepie91> dorotea: is it a bork with DNS?
17:31:15 <dorotea> nah, shit works perfectly in chrome
17:31:15 <joepie91> because monod was also reporting using Iceweasel
17:31:18 <dorotea> both use local dns cache
17:31:22 <joepie91> no I mean DNS within Iceweasel
17:31:26 <dorotea> oh, maybe?
17:31:35 <dorotea> idk, everything queries my local unbound
17:31:47 <dorotea> how would I even troubleshoot that
17:32:04 <joepie91> idk
17:32:07 <dorotea> cause like the problem I had with medium.com sites was that iceweasel doesn't even notice their big app pack of js
17:32:19 <dorotea> not that the req fails or something, it doesn't even send one
17:32:40 <dorotea> like it's scanning the html and misses resources
17:32:49 <dorotea> It's... weird
17:32:57 <joepie91> :|
17:33:15 <dorotea> I'm waiting on 27 too
17:33:25 <dorotea> this is 26, 27 has been out for a couple weeks now
17:33:30 <dorotea> bothers me that they haven't updated
17:33:45 <dorotea> ... they have?
17:33:54 * dorotea stares at the repo full of 27.0.2
17:34:03 * dorotea stares at the repo full of 27.0-2 *
17:34:13 <dorotea> hmm.
17:34:19 <dorotea> this is more subtle
17:35:00 <dorotea> oh!
17:35:21 <dorotea> so I wonder when somebody is going to put up repos on https only
17:35:30 * dorotea is bothered by http nature of repos
17:36:25 <dorotea> signed/checksummed doesn't matter, I don't trust plaintext anymore :|
17:37:43 <dorotea> er. hmm
17:37:55 <dorotea> so jessie only ships esr of course
17:38:36 <dorotea> :O
17:38:56 <dorotea> ladies and gentlemen, linux now runs systemd
17:39:12 <dorotea> debian voted in favor, and mark shuttleworth capitulated http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316
17:39:36 <dorotea> alright everybody, time to fix systemd :D
17:40:54 <joepie91> dorotea: what's the tl;dr of upstart vs systemd
17:41:36 <dorotea> upstart is smaller and lighter and some say faster, with amazing code quality and a dependency system
17:41:54 <joepie91> [who?]
17:41:55 <joepie91> :P
17:42:12 <dorotea> systemd is huge and takes over pid1 reaper capacity and thus can kernel panick when it fails, but has every fucking feature known to man and generally works quite well
17:42:25 <dorotea> people who support upstart say it boots faster
17:42:35 <dorotea> or, whatever the terminology is tehre
17:42:38 <dorotea> sorry I'm sick lol
17:43:05 <dorotea> upstart is more unix-y, you might say
17:43:21 <dorotea> and systemd is more ... cathedral, less bazaar
17:43:32 <dorotea> if that comparison makes any sense
17:44:23 <dorotea> like, systemd has a big bunch of apis and is heavily integrated with dbus and things, whereas upstart is pretty much a very small launcher that just picks up other apps in a defined order
17:44:55 <dorotea> if my hunch about platform maturity is right, systemd was the correct choice
17:46:06 <dorotea> (which is that unix-y model is great for bootstrapping a platform, but as it ages it trends towards larger pieces of functionality, instead of staying devolved in discrete functions contained in tiny apps that only do the one thing)
17:46:10 <joepie91> mm
17:46:49 <dorotea> I don't know if that's GOOD or not, but from that perspective I think systemd is the better choice
17:47:16 <dorotea> but also, if people continue to maintain upstart... it can be a platform for super-light linux distros to run on internet of things devices
17:47:21 <dorotea> or it could be cast that way
17:47:24 <dorotea> tbh both would probably work
17:47:53 <dorotea> (it's somewhat hard to cut through marketing material in this case, as that's the primary thing about upstart -- it was extremely heavily marketed as being THE solution)
17:48:29 <dorotea> whereas it seems like systemd mostly just works, but boasts less
17:48:43 <dorotea> my one actual nagging critique of systemd though is that it doesn't run on anything else
17:49:11 <dorotea> debian adopting systemd will make it fundamentally incompatible with other unixes that don't run systemd (I'm thinking freebsd specifically)
17:49:31 <dorotea> also it only runs x86/x64 right now
17:49:37 <dorotea> and probably arm in the future, but idk
17:50:03 <dorotea> but, like, short term, both are better than init scripts
17:50:03 <dorotea> lol
17:50:13 <dorotea> :>
17:50:29 <dorotea> (as long as that was, it was still a tldr)
17:50:41 <dorotea> motherfuckers wax poetic with this shit
17:50:44 <dorotea> lmao
17:52:00 <dorotea> I liked the big debate about this because it's a really great example of the cathedral battling the bazaar in open mail list
17:52:26 * dorotea hopes for mozilla.debian.net to work
17:53:35 <dorotea> fucking ipv6 addresses that start with 200*
17:53:58 <dorotea> everything in 2001::::: whatever do backflips before arriving at destination
17:55:15 <dorotea> I'm pissed that this is a workshop. what an asshole.
17:55:17 <dorotea> .tw https://twitter.com/rem/status/434267885490692097
17:55:18 <botpie91> I build nearly all my new sites entirely in devtools. If you want to learn how, I’m running a day long master class https://leftlogic.stagehq.com/events/2795 (@rem)
17:57:14 <dorotea> I mean I do too, but like what an asshole :D
17:57:30 <joepie91> :P
17:57:51 <dorotea> the only feature I haven't used is remote debugging
17:57:58 <dorotea> because, like, fuck that shit
17:58:10 <dorotea> it's amazing, if you're an entitled asshole with a smartphone
17:58:27 <dorotea> fuck, that was the funniest thing on our fieldtrip
17:58:38 <dorotea> we were lost and somebody goes "does anyone have a smartphone?"
17:58:48 <dorotea> ONE person in the car, of 5, had one. she goes
17:58:54 <dorotea> "Fuck, really? I'm the only one?"
17:58:55 <dorotea> lol
17:59:11 <joepie91> lol
17:59:59 <dorotea> it's like DUDE we're gs people
18:00:06 <dorotea> we KNOW those things are just big spyboxes
18:00:06 <dorotea> lol
18:00:54 <dorotea> "Afghan President Hamid Karzai carried through on a plan long dreaded by the U.S. on Thursday, releasing 65 detainees despite fervent protestations from U.S. military commanders that the men were violent insurgents who had killed American and Afghan troops in the past -- and were likely to return to the battlefield and do so again in the future."
18:00:59 <dorotea> shit just got real
18:01:23 <dorotea> let's see if karzai can curry favor by flipping us off
18:02:33 <dorotea> "Hopefully after the April election, we can rebuild and reset with a new government and, above all, the vast majority of Afghans, who support a positive, robust relationship between our nations," Stavridis said.
18:02:37 <dorotea> haha, don't kid yourself
18:02:53 <dorotea> they don't like the drones buzzing overhead giving them ptsd and making them wonder which family member dies today
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18:10:14 <DrWhat> joe
18:10:15 <DrWhat> joe
18:10:19 <DrWhat> I love you joe
18:10:20 <DrWhat> :D
18:10:32 <DrWhat> i want you to look at some thing
18:10:38 <dorotea> joepie91:) oh jesus. I just read the mozillan post about tiles. that's so fucked.
18:10:50 <DrWhat> https://github.com/DrWhatNoName/DrEvony/
18:10:55 <DrWhat> How did i do
18:12:21 <DrWhat> be right back making coffee
18:14:45 <dorotea> joepie91:) he responded to you
18:14:51 <dorotea> Sven: this is a complicated and important topic. How much do we build the thing that we want, and how much do we want a general consumer product that the market adopts enough to help us push the industry toward a better place? By optimizing for the former some of us are much happier. By optimizing for the latter we have a less-perfect product, but the ability to push the industry. You are right that the latter is a part of how we are operating. I
18:14:52 <dorotea> think it’s key. It does mean the market -ie consumers– pull us towards what they want to live online. And we’re taking steps to pull that desire towards the openness of our idealized world.
18:15:12 * dorotea can hear the rage flowing over the wire
18:17:18 <dorotea> comcast owns nbc universal, wants to buy time warner
18:17:23 <dorotea> I just
18:23:55 <joepie91> bow down to your content provider overlords
18:29:12 <joepie91> .wa 14:00 pst in gmt
18:29:16 <botpie91> convert 2:00 pm PST->February 14, 2014 to GMT;10:00:00 pm GMT -> Friday, February 14, 2014;3 hours 30 minutes 46 seconds in the future;GMT->+5 hours, PST->-3 hours;Greenwich, Mean Time, , 10:00:00 pm GMT, Friday, February 14 Los Angeles,, California, , 2:00:00 pm PST, Friday, February 14 New York City,, New York, , 5:00:00 pm EST, Friday, February 14;2 hours
18:29:33 <joepie91> not helpful
18:31:01 <dorotea> add 8 mang
18:31:06 <dorotea> 10pm
18:31:07 <dorotea> lol
18:31:45 <dorotea> 22:00 if you want that
18:31:57 <dorotea> I don't actually know what to call that, we used to call it military time
18:32:04 <dorotea> I suppose everyone else just calls it "time"
18:32:04 <dorotea> lol
18:32:32 <joepie91> dorotea: pretty much lol
18:34:52 <dorotea> all my shit is 24h time tho, and people look at me funny cause they can't tell time on my devices
18:34:52 <dorotea> lol
18:35:14 <dorotea> someday I'd like to also convert to celsius so I'm not fucked over when I travel abroad
18:35:25 <joepie91> celsius is easy
18:35:34 <dorotea> not really
18:35:39 <joepie91> 0 is freezing, 100 is boiling, 20 is comfortable outside temperature
18:35:40 <dorotea> I have to memorize new ranges
18:35:47 <joepie91> 16 is "chilly"
18:36:02 <joepie91> those are all anchor points you need, really
18:36:09 <joepie91> er
18:36:10 <joepie91> wait
18:36:10 <joepie91> sec
18:36:20 * dorotea converts 20 and 16 because "comfortable" and "chilly" are defined vastly differently
18:36:28 <joepie91> 37 celsius is body temp
18:36:32 <dorotea> does it snow at 10?
18:36:33 <dorotea> lol
18:36:38 <joepie91> wat, no
18:36:42 <joepie91> 0 is freezing
18:36:43 <dorotea> what's freezing
18:36:44 <dorotea> oh
18:36:48 <joepie91> so you won't get good snow at 10
18:36:48 <dorotea> hmm
18:36:52 <joepie91> shitty wet diarrhea snow at best
18:36:55 <dorotea> 0 or less
18:36:55 <dorotea> lol
18:37:01 * dorotea laughs
18:37:56 <dorotea> okay so 20c is 68f
18:38:05 <dorotea> and 16 is 60
18:38:07 <dorotea> got it
18:38:26 <joepie91> also, dorotea, celsius <-> fahrenheit is a straight scale
18:38:33 <dorotea> so under 16 I have to wear a coat, under 13 I have to wear my breaker
18:38:41 <joepie91> so if you take 0 as freezing anchor point and 100 as boiling anchor point
18:38:46 <joepie91> and whatever points for fahrenheit
18:38:54 <joepie91> you can just look at "how far across the scale"
18:38:55 <joepie91> for a quick estimate
18:39:09 <dorotea> my points in fahrenheit are 55/60/65/70+
18:39:12 <dorotea> that's it
18:39:21 <joepie91> .c 55 fahrenheit in celsius
18:39:22 <botpie91> IndexError: list index out of range (file "/home/phenny/phenny/modules/calc.py", line 80, in c)
18:39:22 <dorotea> but that's also the entire temperature range of my city
18:39:24 <joepie91> ...
18:39:29 <joepie91> VERY HELPFUL BOTPIE
18:41:51 <dorotea> lulz
18:42:08 <dorotea> so like
18:42:12 <dorotea> 13/16/18/20
18:42:16 <dorotea> or so
18:42:23 <joepie91> I suppose
18:42:25 <dorotea> not quite exactly, but those are round number
18:42:30 <dorotea> s
18:42:57 <dorotea> anything under 16 is all my coats, 13 and I've gotta wear hat too
18:43:15 <dorotea> probably want gloves if it's under 10
18:43:18 <dorotea> yeah
18:43:21 <dorotea> that's roughly accurate
18:43:29 <dorotea> kay kayyy
18:43:39 <dorotea> it appears to be 19 here right now
18:43:53 <dorotea> highs 16-17 for the next week
18:45:02 <dorotea> amazing! http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/us/study-finds-methane-leaks-negate-climate-benefits-of-natural-gas.html?hp&_r=0 "Although burning natural gas as a transportation fuel produces 30 percent less planet-warming carbon dioxide emissions than burning diesel, the drilling and production of natural gas can lead to leaks of methane, a greenhouse gas 30 times more potent than carbon dioxide."
18:50:15 <dorotea> huh, I reordered my music by length on accident and it's been a fun change
18:51:48 Zekka has quit (Ping timeout)
18:51:50 <dorotea> hahaha
18:52:13 <dorotea> For that matter, why is Big Dog a robot? It’s a small vehicle, with legs instead of wheels, but there’s no evidence it can choose its own route or mission. With a little help from Google, your Nissan can drive home without your touching the steering wheel, but that doesn’t seem to qualify it as a “robot” or entitle it to a fraction of the press Big Dog is getting.
18:52:17 <dorotea> Clearly it’s those gimmicky legs, that imitation of mammal gait. Not that this gait is very fast or efficient; your Nissan is faster, smoother, quieter and can carry far more cargo on its boring old wheels—but we don’t call it a robot.
18:52:20 <MK_FG> dorotea, systemd ran on arm linux since day-1
18:52:21 <dorotea> The rule seems to be that one sense of “robot” in contemporary English is something like “a machine that does a bad imitation of a living organism.” The Nissan isn’t trying to look or move like an animal, so we’re underwhelmed. Big Dog, clomping along like a bear designed by a Human Resources Department, is a robot and a delight.
18:52:29 <dorotea> MK_FG:) excellent!
18:52:32 <MK_FG> But *linux*, not anything else
18:52:39 <dorotea> yeah, no *bsd
18:52:43 <dorotea> which is what makes me a sad
19:14:33 <dorotea> oh fuck
19:14:43 <dorotea> 263 packages upgraded, 18 newly installed, 10 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
19:14:43 <dorotea> Need to get 255 MB of archives. After unpacking 4,520 kB will be used.
19:14:46 <dorotea> what happened, debian
19:14:50 <dorotea> that's a BIG package push
19:15:36 <dorotea> oooh, new dns infrastructure
19:15:39 <dorotea> and db
19:16:05 <dorotea> fucking shit man, it's like a whole new os
19:16:41 <dorotea> oooooh
19:16:52 <dorotea> it's cause I'm pulling in unstable
19:16:53 <dorotea> D:
19:17:36 <dorotea> fuckit :D
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19:35:16 <joepie91> dorotea: heh. it IS a whole new os!
19:37:27 <dorotea> :D
19:37:32 <dorotea> sid++
19:37:49 <dorotea> reboob time!
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20:10:31 <joepie91> dorotea
20:10:35 <joepie91> <joepie91>what are the problems with systemd
20:10:36 <joepie91> <lbft>it does too many things at once
20:10:36 <joepie91> <lbft>it's fixing something that isn't a real problem
20:10:36 <joepie91> <lbft>the mindset of the developers is actively harmful in dealing with outside opinions
20:10:37 <joepie91> thoughts?
20:22:22 <dorotea> that's a counter-argument, yeah. I read some whole article laying out that argument a week or so ago
20:23:04 <dorotea> to me it's an ideological argument. "Don't add more functionality here because it can fail", which resolves to "be unix, don't be monolith"
20:23:40 <dorotea> I've nothing to say on "actively harmful towards outside opinions" but systemd is /very/ monolith
20:23:51 <dorotea> if you aren't fine with that, something else should be used
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20:24:23 <dorotea> joepie91:) ^ (sorry, was cooking)
20:24:37 <dorotea> loggy, pointer?
20:24:37 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2014-02-14#T20-24-37
20:24:38 <monod> hello guyz
20:26:58 <dorotea> joepie91:) it's interesting because the solution most who make that argument "fixing something that isn't a problem" is to stick with rc init scripts or whatever. That system works, yes, but it's fucking horrible to work with. boilerplate slathered in boilerplate, and it's not very flexible without advanced knowledge. I'm not 100% sure a monolith is the answer, but as far as I'm concerned anything is better than that.
20:27:38 <joepie91> fair enough :P
20:29:34 <dorotea> even if it's a bit cumbersome (doesn't seem to be), it seems like being able to say "12 things depend on this daemon running, so launch it and then all 12 of them" would be nice. Perhaps it isn't worth the change, I don't know.
20:30:53 <dorotea> my only significant bias in this is that I love the fact that systemd autolocks a screen when you insert a mouse wiggler (which I think MK_FG told me upstart could do as well)
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21:09:58 <joepie91> dorotea: http://pando.com/2014/02/07/occupy-wall-street-leader-now-works-for-google-wants-to-crowdfund-a-private-militia/
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21:28:49 <MK_FG> dorotea, I think that was udev patch that came out of certain gnome conference ioerror visited ;)
21:29:06 <MK_FG> These days udev == systemd though, more of the monolith
21:31:38 <MK_FG> joepie91, "it does too many things at once" - kinda true, but many things there are swappable for custom stuff, if you want to (i.e. all systemd-* daemons, stock units, policies, etc) - most have well-defined interfaces, documented at systemd home (iirc there was a table of all these)
21:32:06 <djneubs> is anyone like amazing here with php and sql databases that does freelance projects?
21:34:52 <MK_FG> joepie91, "it's fixing something that isn't a real problem" - imho sane, fast, lean dependency-based boot and user session, plus reliable isolated services in cgroups is very much worth fixing ;)
21:35:14 <MK_FG> "the mindset of the developers is actively harmful in dealing with outside opinions" - just plain false, look at the ML
21:35:28 <joepie91> MK_FG: I believe the opinion thing had to do with platform support
21:35:30 <joepie91> amongst other things
21:35:35 <joepie91> but not sure
21:35:41 <joepie91> they're not my points after all ;)
21:35:44 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
21:35:44 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2014-02-14#T21-35-44
21:35:52 <MK_FG> Yeah, sure, and there was a huge extended reply on why that support is hard
21:36:08 <MK_FG> With like 20 points, and fairly large discussion
21:36:21 <MK_FG> (from a year or two ago, or so)
21:36:23 <djneubs> MK_FG: do you have an answer the ? i asked earlier?
21:36:28 <joepie91> djneubs: currently not available for freelance stuff (no time left), but I normally do open-source freelance stuff :P
21:36:32 <joepie91> MK_FG: aha
21:36:54 <djneubs> joepie91: when do u think ulll have time? i think my projects relativley simple
21:37:05 <joepie91> probably not any time soon
21:38:55 <joepie91> djneubs: if it's fairly simple, it shouldn't be hard to find people for it... afaik freenode has a channel for this, even
21:39:16 <djneubs> im a newb to IRC lol
21:39:25 <djneubs> afaik freenode = channel on this server?
21:39:43 <joepie91> no
21:39:46 <MK_FG> That thread was a bit of flame-war, but list is at the end of https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/07/msg00281.html
21:39:47 <joepie91> it's a different IRC network
21:39:50 <joepie91> irc.freenode.net
21:39:58 <joepie91> not sure what the channel was
21:40:56 <MK_FG> (no way I've read all that even back then... https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/07/threads.html#00269 )
21:43:08 <joepie91> MK_FG: are you using a custom RSS feed fetcher/parser/reader
21:43:08 <joepie91> lol
21:43:16 <joepie91> I saw one of your github repos come by in my access logs
21:43:54 <MK_FG> Well, not that "custom", it's a usual python feedparser module
21:44:03 <MK_FG> ...that does the fetching
21:44:15 <MK_FG> But otherwise it's github.com/mk-fg/feedjack/
21:45:28 <joepie91> ya
21:45:31 <joepie91> that's what I saw
21:45:32 <joepie91> :p
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21:51:06 <dorotea> joepie91:) yeah, I saw that article. I want to see what other people have to say about it, though, because pando has a very critical bent (reminds me of greenwald's)
21:51:28 djneubs has quit (Ping timeout)
21:51:55 <monod> ping timeouts
21:52:01 <dorotea> MK_FG:) and yeah, I heard it from ioerror's mouth on a video where he mentioned it as a security success
21:54:06 <dorotea> It's fascinating to watch our media attempt to kill tesla with "car fires" as if they don't happen all the fucking time
21:54:11 <monod> I'm going to sleep now guys
21:54:16 <monod> see you later :)
21:54:18 <monod> night!
21:54:21 <dorotea> night monod!
21:54:21 monod has parted #crytocc (Quit)
21:56:26 <joepie91> didn't even realize monod was here :o
21:56:43 <dorotea> :o
21:56:49 <dorotea> such a great friend you are
21:56:56 * dorotea giggles
21:57:02 <joepie91> :(
21:57:03 <dorotea> <3
21:57:08 <dorotea> <3<3
21:57:10 <joepie91> now I feel bad
21:57:16 <dorotea> awh :(
21:57:17 <joepie91> lol
21:57:53 <dorotea> YES
21:57:56 <dorotea> bootstrap 3.1.1
21:57:59 <dorotea> EXCELLENCE
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22:10:04 <joepie91> dorotea: https://pay.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/1xm8xa/clearskies_open_source_btsync_clone/
22:11:04 <dorotea> joepie91:) too bad they annihilated the usefulness of it by making it gplv3
22:15:07 mama has quit (Ping timeout)
22:15:52 <dorotea> I hope if they use bittorrent trackers that we can set which tracker to use
22:16:12 <dorotea> That's the thing I hate about btsync. It's like dudes I run a bittorrent tracker lemme use it
22:16:51 <joepie91> <dorotea>joepie91:) too bad they annihilated the usefulness of it by making it gplv3
22:16:54 <joepie91> could've been worse
22:16:57 <joepie91> could've been proprietary
22:16:58 <joepie91> :P
22:31:23 <dorotea> I'm unconvinced that proprietary is worse
22:31:36 <dorotea> either way it's massively exclusionary
22:32:11 <dorotea> I'm not sure I want to be in charge of trying to figure out how much of my leg I want to blow off with a shotgun. It sucks any way you cut it
22:32:50 <joepie91> hehe
22:32:59 <joepie91> dorotea: I agree in principle
22:35:25 <dorotea> I mean what we'd be looking at is "which is the lesser of two evils?" Which is fine in circumstances where you only have those choices, but we have bsd/mit/isc/wtfpl and co to choose from
22:35:45 <dorotea> We have LOTS of good choices
22:38:51 <joepie91> dorotea: perhaps contact the author and sugest?
22:38:54 <joepie91> suggest *
22:38:56 ox1 (ox1@ox1.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
22:39:07 <joepie91> it's early on in the dev process, so not much IP holder scatter to deal with yet
22:40:43 <dorotea> "Hi yes hello can you please actually support free software instead of enclosure of the public domain (satan)(GPL)?"
22:40:59 <joepie91> .welcome ox1
22:40:59 <botpie91> ox1: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
22:41:03 <dorotea> lmao
22:41:13 <dorotea> I actually said something like that in my class
22:41:16 <joepie91> dorotea: that, but perhaps some more politically correct language would be beneficial
22:41:17 <joepie91> :)
22:41:39 <dorotea> the book we were reading advocated a rewriting of the gpl for genetic material (to protect from monsanto et all patenting it)
22:41:45 <joepie91> unrelatedly, where the fuck are my document folders
22:41:48 <dorotea> and I went "well but that's bullshit and here's why"
22:41:52 <joepie91> like, seriously, where the hell have they gone
22:41:55 <dorotea> :O
22:41:57 <joepie91> dorotea: hehe
22:42:01 <dorotea> joepie91:) THEY GREW LEGS
22:42:07 <joepie91> apparently so
22:42:08 <joepie91> which sucks
22:42:14 <joepie91> because I need to make a CD scanning sleeve for somebody
22:42:15 <joepie91> tonight
22:42:18 <dorotea> I put my document folder in my sync folder
22:42:20 <joepie91> and I can't do that without document folders...
22:42:21 <dorotea> for great justice
22:42:26 <joepie91> dorotea: physical document folder
22:42:29 <dorotea> oh!
22:42:32 <joepie91> transparent sleeve things
22:42:38 * dorotea wishes those were the same thing
22:42:42 <joepie91> they are no longer in the place where I remember them being
22:42:45 <joepie91> which is a rare occurrence for me
22:42:47 <dorotea> ahh, problematic
22:42:51 <dorotea> those tend to be important
22:43:00 <dorotea> mine has like rental agreement and such
22:43:01 <dorotea> lol
22:43:03 <joepie91> lol
22:43:10 <joepie91> nah, these are the single-page transparent ones
22:43:20 <dorotea> oh the uh
22:43:23 <joepie91> those + sewing thread = CD scanning sleeve
22:43:27 <dorotea> like covers for a single page?
22:43:31 <joepie91> kinda
22:43:31 <joepie91> sec
22:43:54 <dorotea> I've got these things I put 8.5x11 photos in
22:44:15 <dorotea> (fuck you and your standard photo formats, I do what I want in the darkroom)
22:45:06 <joepie91> dorotea: http://owely.com/0PaKra
22:45:38 <joepie91> that's a CD scanning sleeve
22:45:40 <joepie91> the one I made
22:45:57 <joepie91> woo found em
22:46:16 <joepie91> they were in the place where I remembered them being
22:46:18 <joepie91> I just overlooked them
22:46:18 <joepie91> haha
22:46:44 <dorotea> oooooh
22:46:47 <dorotea> yeah that's cool
22:46:47 <dorotea> lol
22:53:39 iceTwy (iceTwy@iceTwy.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
22:54:14 <joepie91> ohai iceTwy
22:54:20 <joepie91> don't forget mitigation setup this weekend! :P
23:09:02 <dorotea> mm?
23:15:55 <joepie91> dorotea: ?
23:16:46 <dorotea> mitigation setup?
23:16:52 <joepie91> ah
23:17:01 <joepie91> cryto is going to have free ddos mitigation as one of the services
23:17:10 <joepie91> and icetwy is going to be guinea pig
23:17:11 <joepie91> lol
23:17:20 <dorotea> :D
23:18:01 * dorotea puts face in front of the fire hose
23:18:13 * dorotea whargharrrbls
23:18:20 * joepie91 watches dorotea smack against wall
23:18:36 <dorotea> no such thing :D
23:18:44 <joepie91> heh
23:18:47 <dorotea> I am hydrodynamic :D
23:18:53 <joepie91> anyway, the idea is a haproxy + openvpn setup
23:18:58 * dorotea swims like feesh
23:19:04 <dorotea> mm
23:19:11 <joepie91> caveat: only shared-IP SSL
23:19:13 <dorotea> vpn to origin?
23:19:14 <joepie91> that is, per-host certs
23:19:17 <joepie91> which will break in some browsers
23:19:21 <joepie91> ya
23:19:22 <joepie91> well
23:19:25 <dorotea> oh uh
23:19:27 <joepie91> VPN from origin to mitigation box
23:19:33 <dorotea> ahh
23:19:36 <iceTwy> joepie91: haha
23:19:37 <joepie91> no listening on origin
23:19:43 <iceTwy> joepie91: yeah no, I haven't forgotten, don't worry ;)
23:19:47 <joepie91> daemon would listen on openvpn interface
23:19:49 <joepie91> rather than public interface
23:19:58 <joepie91> which mitigates the "find origin server" attack pretty well
23:20:13 <iceTwy> wait
23:20:14 <joepie91> oh, btw
23:20:15 <iceTwy> per host SSL certs?
23:20:17 <iceTwy> hnng
23:20:19 <iceTwy> :/
23:20:23 <joepie91> iceTwy: if it's an openvz VPS
23:20:26 <iceTwy> shoulda said earlier
23:20:29 <joepie91> put in a ticket asking for tun/tap to be enabled
23:20:31 <joepie91> I did
23:20:33 <joepie91> lol
23:20:36 <joepie91> it's the first thing I asked
23:20:46 <joepie91> "is it okay if it has shared IP SSL certs, so it might break in older browsers"
23:20:49 <joepie91> you said yes
23:20:55 <iceTwy> god
23:20:59 <iceTwy> I didn't quite see "shared"
23:21:06 <iceTwy> er
23:21:08 <joepie91> ... what did you think I was asking >.>
23:21:09 <iceTwy> well okay anyway
23:21:15 <dorotea> you mean shitty old clients running on windows xp that don't support sni right
23:21:18 <joepie91> iceTwy: has to do with starttls or somesuch
23:21:21 <joepie91> SNI
23:21:22 <joepie91> that was it
23:21:26 <dorotea> :>
23:21:28 <joepie91> dorotea: pretty much
23:21:29 <iceTwy> meh
23:21:34 <dorotea> xp is only os which doesn't support
23:21:35 <joepie91> iceTwy: you still have your own cert, it's just only used for your vhost(s)
23:21:36 <dorotea> fuckem
23:21:36 <dorotea> lol
23:21:45 <iceTwy> joepie91: right that's perfect, lol
23:21:53 <iceTwy> and very much so dorotea
23:22:04 <iceTwy> they ought to move onto something else than XP ;P
23:22:04 <joepie91> so yeah
23:22:05 <dorotea> did you see my cipher line? :D
23:22:07 <joepie91> haproxy + openvpn :P
23:23:15 <dorotea> https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=explodie.org
23:23:30 <dorotea> I only ban xp and java
23:23:31 <dorotea> :D
23:23:41 <dorotea> (yes, it is purposeful)
23:23:42 <joepie91> Prefix handling Not valid for "www.explodie.org" CONFUSING
23:23:49 <joepie91> CONFUSING
23:23:49 <joepie91> lol
23:23:56 <dorotea> :D
23:24:01 <iceTwy> people don't use www
23:24:03 <iceTwy> so what
23:24:05 <iceTwy> SO WHAT
23:24:05 <dorotea> www is a redirect lol
23:24:07 <iceTwy> www is so 1990's
23:24:22 <dorotea> www redirects to hsts non-www
23:24:28 <dorotea> 301<3
23:24:35 <iceTwy> plain 404 here
23:24:41 <iceTwy> on all of my domains
23:25:08 <iceTwy> https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=iceb.in
23:25:35 <joepie91> my god these CD scanning sleeves take forever to make
23:25:36 <joepie91> :(
23:26:02 <dorotea> server {
23:26:02 <dorotea> listen 80;
23:26:02 <dorotea> server_name www.explodie.org;
23:26:02 <dorotea> expires max;
23:26:02 <dorotea> return 301 https://explodie.org$request_uri;
23:26:03 <dorotea> }
23:26:19 <dorotea> such redirect. many expires. wow.
23:26:40 <dorotea> your cert list is hueg
23:26:43 <dorotea> cipher, rather
23:26:58 <iceTwy> yup
23:27:00 <dorotea> hint
23:27:02 <dorotea> uh
23:27:05 <joepie91> lol
23:27:15 <joepie91> hint hint :D
23:27:33 <dorotea> no version of IE ships with ssl_ecdh_curve secp521r1; enabled
23:27:45 <dorotea> they only ship ssl_ecdh_curve secp384r1; enabled by default
23:27:55 <dorotea> you can knock all of IE out with that line
23:27:59 <dorotea> without changing ciphers
23:28:12 <dorotea> (and first prio ecdh/e cipher)
23:28:33 <dorotea> I used to have 2 ciphers, but I added the third for IE
23:28:47 <dorotea> ssl_ciphers ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA;
23:28:48 <joepie91> FINALLY
23:28:50 <joepie91> FINISHED ONE
23:29:03 <dorotea> (the last one is for IE)
23:29:07 <dorotea> finished a one
23:29:12 <dorotea> oh, sleeve
23:29:12 <dorotea> :D
23:29:30 <dorotea> additionally, check my headers
23:29:35 <dorotea> they're lulz
23:30:37 <joepie91> yup, a sleeve
23:30:41 <joepie91> took 45 goddamn minutes
23:30:41 <joepie91> :(
23:31:18 <dorotea> NP: [Tinariwen - Oualahila ar Tesninam] [Amassakoul] [786kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.6.0
23:31:38 <dorotea> wadija!
23:31:40 <dorotea> I heard that word
23:31:42 <dorotea> hahahaha
23:31:47 <dorotea> or wadiya
23:31:52 <dorotea> however you spell it
23:31:58 <dorotea> it's their home land
23:34:36 <dorotea> E1b1b1b (E-M81), the major haplogroup in Tuaregs, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago. The parent clade E1b1b originated in East Africa.[51][52] Colloquially referred to as the Berber marker for its prevalence among Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle people and other Berber groups, E-M81 is also predominant among other North
23:34:36 <dorotea> African groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 100 percent in some parts of the Maghreb.
23:34:51 <dorotea> fuck yeah
23:34:56 <dorotea> 5600 year old genetics
23:35:30 <joepie91> right then
23:35:32 <joepie91> sleeve done
23:35:34 <joepie91> time to sleep
23:35:36 <joepie91> goodnight :P
23:35:46 <iceTwy> night!
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23:37:03 <dorotea> night!
23:37:29 <dorotea> NP: [Parov Stelar - Libella Swing] [Coco] [928kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.6.0
23:37:44 <iceTwy> wait what
23:37:52 <iceTwy> my friend and I were listening to Parov Stelar this afternoon
23:38:02 <dorotea> welcome to my library
23:38:09 <iceTwy> such copy
23:38:14 <iceTwy> much unimpressed
23:38:15 <iceTwy> unwow
23:38:25 <dorotea> fine
23:38:25 <dorotea> NP: [Ozomatli - (Who Discovered) America?] [Street Signs] [974kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.6.0
23:38:53 <dorotea> (if you've seen mr and ms smith, it's in that movie)
23:39:02 <iceTwy> oh really?
23:39:05 <dorotea> yep
23:39:12 <dorotea> when they leave bogotá
23:39:14 <iceTwy> when does it play in the movie
23:39:15 <iceTwy> oh
23:39:17 <iceTwy> right
23:39:28 <dorotea> and it transitions to a helicopter flight over nyc
23:39:36 <dorotea> well, helo mounted camera
23:39:37 <dorotea> lol
23:39:47 <dorotea> soon: drone mounted camera
23:39:52 <iceTwy> Mr and Mrs Smith is a funny film
23:39:53 <dorotea> much cheaper
23:39:56 <dorotea> yes!
23:39:57 <iceTwy> yeah definitely
23:40:01 <dorotea> It's one of my favorites
23:40:13 <iceTwy> "so how was your day honey"
23:40:20 <iceTwy> "u wot m8"
23:40:52 <dorotea> I cross the ocean in a tiny ship, with her image in my mind and her name on my lips
23:41:10 <dorotea> and, yeah
23:41:14 <dorotea> that's like american culture right there
23:41:16 <dorotea> it's why I love it
23:41:23 <dorotea> that and uh
23:41:27 <dorotea> have you seen american beauty?
23:41:42 <iceTwy> nope
23:41:45 <dorotea> cause that movie NAILS american culture
23:41:48 <iceTwy> it definitely is one film I should see
23:41:49 <dorotea> absolutely slaughters it
23:41:50 <dorotea> it's great
23:41:53 <dorotea> yeah
23:41:54 <iceTwy> izzit
23:41:59 <dorotea> highly highly recommend
23:42:06 <iceTwy> yeah well
23:42:10 <iceTwy> I got Citizen Kane the other day
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23:42:13 <iceTwy> need to watch that first
23:42:15 <dorotea> excellent!
23:42:23 <dorotea> that one has a very very good script
23:42:29 <iceTwy> so I hear.
23:42:31 <dorotea> :P
23:42:40 <dorotea> we had to critique it in film :D
23:42:44 <iceTwy> hah :p
23:42:48 <dorotea> but ooooh many moons ago
23:42:50 <iceTwy> oh, I almost forgot
23:43:03 <iceTwy> when I'll be older I'll rewatch 2001
23:43:10 <dorotea> wassat
23:43:11 <iceTwy> the movie utterly bored me
23:43:20 <iceTwy> 2001: A Space Odyssey by Kubrick
23:43:30 <dorotea> when I get older I'm gonna rewatch bumgarner's redbull jump
23:43:40 <dorotea> huh, haven't seen it
23:43:55 <iceTwy> baumgartner's jump? crazy, man
23:43:59 <dorotea> yes!
23:44:11 <iceTwy> but by that time jumping from the stratosphere will have turned into some kind of commercial activity/extreme sport
23:44:13 <iceTwy> so yeah
23:44:13 <dorotea> corporate sponsorship or not, symbolic of the amazing that we can do
23:44:36 <iceTwy> well Red Bull do sponsor a lot of sports team/people, so I don't mind
23:44:39 <dorotea> which reminds me
23:45:02 <dorotea> .tw https://twitter.com/anildash/status/378222060662947840
23:45:03 <botpie91> A 160 baud modem hooked up to a 23-watt transmitter told us that a machine we built left our solar system last August 25th. So, so great. (@anildash)
23:45:48 <dorotea> a machine built 36 years ago with 40k of ram
23:46:04 <dorotea> like, fuck you your argument is invalid
23:47:27 <dorotea> here you go, some iceTwy music
23:47:29 <dorotea> NP: [Stone Temple Pilots - Dead And Bloated] [Core] [1037kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.6.0
23:47:31 <iceTwy> aka: what the fuck is a 160 baud modem hooked up to a 23-watt transmitter
23:48:16 <dorotea> voyager 1
23:49:12 <dorotea> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/science/in-a-breathtaking-first-nasa-craft-exits-the-solar-system.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
23:49:14 <dorotea> .t
23:49:15 <botpie91> Fri, 14 Feb 2014 23:49:14 GMT
23:49:18 <dorotea> .title
23:49:20 <botpie91> Can't connect to http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/science/in-a-breathtaking-first-nasa-craft-exits-the-solar-system.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
23:49:23 <dorotea> bah
23:49:32 <dorotea> .title
23:49:35 <botpie91> Can't connect to http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/science/in-a-breathtaking-first-nasa-craft-exits-the-solar-system.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
23:49:53 <dorotea> oh, right, he's in blackhole still
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23:57:57 <dorotea> .welcome Natt
23:57:58 <botpie91> Natt : welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
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