Cryto! 3 December 2013
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05:39:20 <MrPinky> hey
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06:07:19 <cayce> nope.
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07:20:05 <MrPinky> hi joepie91
07:21:02 <joepie91> hai
07:21:05 <joepie91> will be gone in a bit
07:21:23 <MrPinky> what u are up too?
07:22:59 <MrPinky> when u get the time will u check my wiki problem :)
07:23:27 <joepie91> MrPinky: DISH
07:23:36 <joepie91> http://dish2013.nl/
07:24:05 <MrPinky> ah cool
07:24:08 <MrPinky> have fun
07:27:50 <MrPinky> brb
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11:46:01 <lysobit> joepie91: so I've been reading about the SQRL stuff. it really ticks me off
11:46:33 <lysobit> There has been a lot of critism about it, and apparantly Steve Gibson a shady salesman type person. which is a shame
11:46:56 <lysobit> The protocol has many of the problems that I thought of when I was starting out
11:47:05 <lysobit> with keypairauth
11:47:14 <lysobit> hold on
11:47:40 <lysobit> http://grymoire.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/the-problem-with-sqrl/
11:48:03 <lysobit> "SQRL:// is a bad idea" and "SQRL should not rely on a human to authenticate a domain" are problems we discussed a few months ago if you remember
11:49:48 <lysobit> I'll continue working on KeypairAuth as an alternative if SQRL doesn't take off
11:53:06 <lysobit> (using SQRL:// essentially means that *all* connections will have to be using HTTP because there is no option to specify HTTPS in the protocol by its current design, which is no more secure than sending your password over plaintext, we discussed MITM a while back)
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12:42:54 <lysobit> https://blockchain.info/en/block-index/444238/0000000000000004db1cdf5c8e0440e38a635f476c65ebe7923ac697af3002c5
12:42:59 <lysobit> A block with one transaction! heh
12:43:27 <lysobit> with 0 transactions, technically
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13:02:09 <monod> I'm so stupid guys
13:02:17 <monod> (hello everyone)
13:39:06 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 3 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02"ngdoc-snippets" - added', '02ngdoc snippets', '02Merge pull request #2447 from iamsebastian/master"ngdoc-snippets" - added' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/a0b134185c...b45b160f61)
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14:22:10 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Add SublimePackageSync.', '02Merge pull request #2444 from erbridge/masterAdd SublimePackageSync.' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/b45b160f61...1b142504c7)
14:23:11 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Add Better OCaml package.', '02Merge pull request #2448 from whitequark/masterAdd Better OCaml package' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/1b142504c7...dbe9077bb0)
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14:37:53 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02SublimeFunctionNameDisplay works with ST3, so needs to be marked as such', '02Merge pull request #2449 from akrabat/function-name-display-st3Mark SublimeFunctionNameDisplay as supporting ST3' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/dbe9077bb0...5ee3792edb)
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17:13:37 <beowulf> Rather quiet today
17:14:05 <orbit> yeah lol
17:14:07 <orbit> sup
17:14:38 <beowulf> Not much, getting rather hungry though..
17:15:35 <orbit> Ahh damn :/ you should go get something to eat xD
17:17:14 <beowulf> Yea...should being the key word lol
17:17:29 <orbit> xD can you not be bothered or are you working?
17:17:56 <beowulf> More so not wanting to get up...so laziness? lol
17:18:06 <orbit> Ahh fair enough lol
17:18:11 <orbit> How's your day been?
17:18:14 <beowulf> I'm enjoying my 'weekend'
17:18:19 <orbit> Ahh nice!
17:18:29 <orbit> 2 days off?
17:18:33 <beowulf> Work wed-sun
17:18:45 <orbit> Ahh fair enough
17:19:34 <beowulf> While the girlfriend is gone at work, I just chill and play on the computer. Don't have much time otherwise lol
17:19:54 <orbit> Ahh lol fair enough
17:20:01 <orbit> do you code?
17:20:39 <beowulf> Not really. I've wrote one but it was nothing really. Im more of a network guy
17:21:20 <beowulf> But i've been having some troubles with mine so it seems that Im in a catch 22 at the moment
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17:22:02 <orbit> Ah fair enough
17:22:12 <orbit> This is completley unrealted
17:22:15 <orbit> *related
17:22:24 <orbit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Zx02qAacA
17:22:27 <orbit> chec this out
17:22:32 <orbit> ugh this shell makes me lag like a bitch
17:24:44 <orbit> What problems you been having? :)
17:25:27 <beowulf> is it magnetized?
17:25:45 <beowulf> Trying to have a vpn over tor
17:26:12 <orbit> Nope :P
17:26:15 <orbit> hrrrm
17:26:29 <orbit> what os?
17:27:20 <beowulf> xubuntu
17:27:41 <beowulf> .bitcoin
17:27:41 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $1059.70, 1 BTC = €825.10
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17:33:09 <beowulf> I have to have a VM to do it correctly
17:33:18 <beowulf> WASTED TIME!
17:33:50 <orbit> Hrm
17:33:55 <orbit> did you try googling it?
17:34:12 <orbit> I don't really know a lot about vpns
17:34:16 <orbit> I probably should but meh
17:34:49 <orbit> ?
17:34:51 <orbit> http://torvpn.com/
17:34:56 <beowulf> I'm on the torprojects.org sites
17:35:08 <beowulf> I've gotta get a VM to do it.
17:35:10 <orbit> ahh hrm
17:35:14 <orbit> What for may I ask?
17:35:17 <beowulf> I just want to use TOR but hide that Im using TOR
17:35:37 <beowulf> So I can join the other servers that TOR is banned on
17:35:40 <orbit> Ahhh
17:35:49 <orbit> Connect to a vpn
17:35:49 <beowulf> I used to go on AnonOps and Anonradio
17:35:53 <orbit> infact wiat
17:35:55 <orbit> wait
17:36:10 <orbit> I'm unsure if this is possible
17:36:13 <orbit> but you could always
17:36:55 <beowulf> Yea but you need VMs to do it
17:37:03 <orbit> I don't think you do
17:37:06 <orbit> I mean
17:37:07 <orbit> all you relly need to do
17:37:14 <orbit> is set up a transparent proxy
17:37:15 <beowulf> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorPlusVPN
17:37:18 <orbit> and then connect to a vpn
17:37:45 <beowulf> I have my whole system torified by using polipo
17:38:02 <orbit> then you just need to connect to a vpn
17:38:03 <beowulf> so Im already using a socks proxy
17:38:09 <beowulf> thats the problem
17:38:11 <orbit> yeah
17:38:14 <beowulf> it wont freaking connect
17:38:19 <orbit> so just download a free shitty vpn or something
17:38:22 <orbit> hrm
17:38:26 <beowulf> lol thats what i did
17:38:30 <beowulf> I tried vpnbook
17:38:36 <beowulf> and it doesnt work
17:38:37 <orbit> Try VPNIum
17:40:29 <beowulf> is there a limit on data usage?
17:40:48 <orbit> Nope
17:40:53 <orbit> Not as far as I'm aware
17:41:51 <beowulf> doesnt log, that's nice
17:42:15 <beowulf> What operating systems do you support?
17:42:15 <beowulf> You may use VPNium for Windows now.
17:42:23 <beowulf> Will it work for linx?
17:43:02 <orbit> I'm pretty sure it does log and yeah t should do
17:44:08 <beowulf> It says it doesn't log because where they are located there aren't laws requiring it. It stated it logged certain 'technical information which is necessary for ensuring operability of our service.'
17:44:25 <beowulf> but it is a .exe
17:45:32 <orbit> heem
17:45:36 <orbit> *hrm
17:45:38 <orbit> wine>?
17:46:18 <beowulf> yea thats what im reading is the only option
17:47:19 <orbit> hrm
17:47:37 <beowulf> Installing
17:47:58 <beowulf> Figures a Windows emulator takes so long to install
17:48:36 <orbit> ahh fair enoough
17:52:31 <beowulf> Doesn't work. When trying to install stays that VPNIum is running and to close it. Hows it running when its not installed?
17:52:51 <beowulf> ps -A | grep openvpn
17:52:55 <beowulf> lol woops
17:55:10 <beowulf> yea, nothing
17:55:49 <orbit> hrrm I'm not sue :c
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18:02:42 <complex> if someone asked what how many bytes 1 kilobyte is, what would you answer?
18:02:57 <complex> *asked how
18:03:43 <lysobit> 1,000 by SI units, but actually 1,024 in its binary representation as on a computer.
18:04:06 <complex> well, if you had to say either 1000 or 1024
18:04:09 <lysobit> They can mean either
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18:04:12 <complex> right
18:04:23 <complex> and my fucking question on this exam have both alternatives
18:04:33 <lysobit> Hard drive manufacturers ofter use 1000 to give the impression that the HD has more space than it really does
18:05:05 <lysobit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobyte
18:05:10 <complex> yeah, i know :D
18:05:11 <lysobit> "The kilobyte for 1000 bytes (symbol: kB) or Kilobyte (kibibyte) for 1024 bytes "
18:05:23 <lysobit> kB = 1000, KB = 1024 it seems
18:05:56 <lysobit> So I guess the answer to your question is 1000
18:06:20 <complex> no, my university says it is 1024 bytes in 1 kilobyte
18:06:31 <complex> :|
18:06:33 <lysobit> lol
18:07:32 <lysobit> Well according to http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kilobyte your university is right anyway
18:11:40 <beowulf> I've got one to MAYBE work?
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18:57:38 <orbit> what the fuck did I just read NSFW http://i.imgur.com/CChUbvx.jpg
18:58:31 <beowulf> Sounds fun
18:59:08 <orbit> ....s..s..s..sure..
18:59:11 <complex> nice
18:59:13 <beowulf> lol
19:01:21 <pzuraq> oh fuck dude
19:01:21 <botpie91> pzuraq: 28 Nov 07:55Z <joepie91> tell pzuraq that we're archiving Hyves, a Dutch social network that's about to shut down
19:01:23 <pzuraq> that is
19:01:30 <pzuraq> straight fucked
19:01:45 <pzuraq> joepie91: Sweet :)
19:02:42 <orbit> Yupp...
19:02:46 <orbit> and yeah that's pretty damn cool
19:05:56 <joepie91> well that's a bit late lol
19:06:00 <joepie91> the archiving finished yesterday
19:06:05 <joepie91> @ pzuraq
19:06:06 <joepie91> but hai :P
19:06:11 <pzuraq> hai :)
19:06:39 <pzuraq> glad you did it though. Always doing something for the good of the people.
19:06:54 <joepie91> pzuraq: I actually -just- got back from a conference
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19:07:04 <joepie91> on "digital heritage" (read: archiving stuff digitally)
19:07:48 <pzuraq> ooh, do tell
19:07:49 <joepie91> was quite surprised that the dominant opinion around the people present there (from cultural institutions etc.) was basically "copyright has no right of existence anymore"
19:08:01 <joepie91> and quite some moves towards open stuff
19:08:26 <pzuraq> that's good to hear :)
19:08:31 <joepie91> turns out that the Dutch National Museum is releasing all their data under CC-BY, for example
19:09:10 <joepie91> .tw https://twitter.com/mpedson/status/407902360749756416
19:09:11 <botpie91> "Copyrights are of another era…We would rather have people using our images, in high quality." Taco Dibbits, @rijksmuseum /#dish13 #openGLAM (@mpedson)
19:09:19 <pzuraq> :D
19:09:21 <joepie91> (national museum guy)
19:12:33 <pzuraq> damn
19:12:35 <pzuraq> need a pen
19:23:20 <zozo> ohai joepie91, how are you?
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19:28:20 <joepie91> exhausted :P
19:28:22 <joepie91> ..
19:41:17 <pzuraq> :(
19:42:39 <joepie91> I should probably grab a movie or something
19:42:41 <joepie91> and go to sleep
19:45:41 <pzuraq> joepie91: You watch continuum?
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19:47:04 <joepie91> doesn't ring a bell
19:47:18 <pzuraq> it's a show, an Netflix now
19:47:25 <pzuraq> in 'murica at least
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19:48:29 <pzuraq> it's about a future where corporations rule the world after they bailed out the government
19:48:44 <pzuraq> and there's terrible injustice, lack of free speech, etc
19:49:30 <pzuraq> so this one group called Liber8 (campy I know) blows up a couple buildings to kill some corporate leaders
19:49:40 <pzuraq> kill like 20,000 people in the process
19:50:18 <pzuraq> a year later, they're to be executed, and they manage to somehow send themselves back in time to today
19:50:34 <pzuraq> along with the main character, who is a Protector (corporate police)
19:50:53 <pzuraq> she's trying to catch them, they're trying to start a revolution
19:51:15 * joepie91 fires up a torrent
19:51:40 <pzuraq> it's interesting how the show is evolving. Doesn't come down on one side or the other yet. But it's not super favorable to one or the other either.
19:52:06 <pzuraq> figured you might like ;)
19:53:49 <joepie91> probably, yes :)
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20:07:44 <MrPinky2> hey guys
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20:26:29 <cayce> morning joepie91 :D
20:32:32 <cayce> oh oh oh, continuum
20:32:39 <cayce> I watched like 3 episodes of that!
20:33:17 <cayce> good show, recommend
20:33:28 <joepie91> evening cayce
20:33:53 <cayce> evening joepie91 :D
20:34:00 <cayce> I came home for lunch
20:34:06 <cayce> because, like, I need a break
20:34:13 <cayce> fucking dmv sapping my res
20:34:14 <cayce> lol
20:36:31 <joepie91> cayce: you would've probably loved DISH
20:36:48 <cayce> fish?
20:36:53 <cayce> *dish? >_>
20:37:23 <joepie91> bunch of cultural "heritage" (archiving, art, blah) institutions and interested people, discussing how to open up shit, how copyright is basically stupid and shouldn't exist, how to creative commons, and how to link catalogs of objects all across the world together
20:37:42 <joepie91> along with generally making stuff more accessible to people
20:37:53 <joepie91> strong developer focus also, but plenty of non-techies
20:38:56 <cayce> oh, yes I would have enjoyed that
20:39:15 <cayce> I'm giving a preso in 1.5hours about gpl vs mit licenses to non-techies
20:39:15 <joepie91> oh, and Jason Scott of course
20:39:16 <joepie91> lol
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20:39:26 <joepie91> I'm actually considering writing up a short report on my blog
20:39:27 <joepie91> about DISH
20:39:33 <joepie91> quite a lot of actual substance
20:39:48 <joepie91> cayce: might want to compare it to CC-BY-SA vs CC-BY
20:39:57 <cayce> there's a movement that calls itself food sovereignty and they're appropriating the gpl and applying it to seed germ material
20:39:59 <joepie91> which are pretty much the non-code equivalents
20:40:01 <cayce> yeah
20:40:12 <cayce> I know, I'm going to try and suss out those differences
20:40:16 <joepie91> taking away the code tends to make people suddenly understand, because they no longer believe that they can't understand it :)
20:40:28 <cayce> yeah, I'm not using the code bits
20:40:45 <cayce> they even call their licenses the GPLGL or something
20:40:58 <cayce> gpl (germplasm license) or so
20:41:07 <cayce> it's for an ecology course
20:41:22 <cayce> but the teacher is letting me critique the gpl, which is nice
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20:42:07 <joepie91> I see
20:42:08 <cayce> and the book uses the terms foss and gpl licensed interchangeably
20:42:11 <joepie91> that's an... unusual topic
20:42:11 <joepie91> :P
20:42:11 <cayce> which concerns me
20:42:13 <joepie91> and hrm
20:42:14 <cayce> yes
20:42:27 <cayce> but it's presented as a potential solution to gmo's and the privatization thereof
20:42:35 <cayce> which is very fucking relevant to this class
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20:43:11 <cayce> and I happen to be the one person who has actually looked at the licenses available and analyzed them
20:43:17 <cayce> (in the class)
20:43:37 <cayce> do uh
20:43:47 <joepie91> cayce: perhaps my blog article will be of use, http://joepie91.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/licensing-for-beginners/
20:43:50 <joepie91> as a reference
20:44:01 <cayce> cc-by is sorta MIT, right? You can relicense later?
20:44:14 <joepie91> CC-BY means "as long as you give me credit"
20:44:17 * cayce hasn't ever actually used cc
20:44:20 <cayce> ahhh
20:44:23 <joepie91> you can always relicense as long as you don't dedicate to public domain
20:44:24 <cayce> and sa share alike
20:44:25 <joepie91> however
20:44:29 <joepie91> you cannot take back an existing license
20:44:33 <joepie91> in most jurisdictions
20:44:37 * cayce nods
20:44:39 <joepie91> as in
20:44:44 <joepie91> for a particular piece of $thing
20:44:54 <joepie91> if MyThingie 1.0 is GPL-licensed
20:45:01 <joepie91> er
20:45:02 <joepie91> sorry
20:45:08 <joepie91> if Mythingie 1.0 is MIT-licensed
20:45:14 <joepie91> you can release MyThingie 2.0 under GPL
20:45:32 <cayce> you can't apply a less-restrictive license, only equivalently restrictive (or more so), right?
20:45:33 <joepie91> and you -can- license 1.0 under GPL as well, retroactively, but people will still be able to use it under MIT terms
20:45:40 <joepie91> 2.0, however, can NOT be used under MIT
20:45:44 <joepie91> since it was never MIT to begin with
20:45:47 <cayce> hmm
20:45:51 <cayce> mmk
20:45:54 <joepie91> cayce; I would word it differently
20:46:00 <joepie91> you can't take away irrevocably granted rights
20:46:04 <joepie91> which is basically what a license gives you
20:46:06 <joepie91> er
20:46:08 <joepie91> public license *
20:46:20 <cayce> this is mostly for my clarity, none of this will be presented, heh. I'm going to cover the restrictions on reuse the gpl has versus mit
20:46:23 <joepie91> that 'security' is why a license is better than somebody saying "yeah whatever"
20:46:28 <cayce> mostly philosophy, less legal
20:46:32 <joepie91> knowing that they won't bitch at you later on
20:46:42 <joepie91> and force you to cut off whatever now relies on the licensed work
20:46:45 * cayce nods
20:48:35 <joepie91> okay
20:48:36 <joepie91> torrent done
20:48:41 <joepie91> time to watch and sleep
20:49:03 * cayce grins
20:49:12 <joepie91> goodnight :)
20:49:17 <cayce> yeah I'm mostly going to stick to difference between types of freedom lol
20:49:33 <cayce> "freedom to do what you want with this" versus "license that tells adults what to do"
20:49:39 <joepie91> cayce:
20:49:40 <cayce> I have no bias here at all, nooooo
20:49:42 <cayce> :3
20:49:44 <joepie91> how I usually word it is
20:50:03 <cayce> the book covers "virus like" nature of gpl
20:50:04 <joepie91> "how is forcing somebody to share, any more right than forcing somebody NOT to share?"
20:50:11 <joepie91> it's still force
20:50:14 <cayce> yeah
20:50:20 <cayce> that's essentially what I'm getting at
20:50:25 <joepie91> anyway
20:50:28 <joepie91> sleep!
20:50:29 <joepie91> night
20:50:30 <joepie91> :P
20:50:35 <cayce> coerced freedom vs actual freedom
20:50:36 <cayce> yeah
20:50:38 <cayce> sleep well!
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21:11:32 <iceTwy> so
21:11:45 <iceTwy> The Guardian has put a poll to nominate the person of the year
21:11:57 <iceTwy> the three interesting nominees are
21:12:05 <iceTwy> Snowden, Satoshi, Marco & Sini from Greenpeace
21:12:17 <iceTwy> Greenpeace is cool but they have had other remarkable courses of action
21:12:30 <iceTwy> so if anyone has to get some attention from this vote, it'd be Snowden or Satoshi
21:12:39 <iceTwy> now you may argue that Satoshi might need publicity the most
21:12:42 <iceTwy> but he's gone
21:12:44 <iceTwy> so..
21:12:46 <iceTwy> Snowden
21:12:50 <iceTwy> for the righteousness of his actions
21:15:39 <iceTwy> cc joepie91 cayce ^
21:15:48 <iceTwy> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/03/person-of-year-2013-who-gets-your-vote
21:15:50 <iceTwy> .title
21:15:51 <botpie91> iceTwy: Person of the year 2013 – who would get your vote? | World news | theguardian.com
21:19:34 <cayce> bye iceTwy
21:21:05 <lysobit> iceTwy is the person of the year 2013?
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21:25:45 <iceTwy> lysobit: heh
21:25:47 <iceTwy> cayce: hmm?
21:26:05 <iceTwy> lysobit: well I have done nothing worthy of being tpoty 2013
21:26:07 <iceTwy> ;p
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21:44:11 <iceTwy> wtf America? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html?src=me&ref=general
21:44:14 <iceTwy> .title
21:44:16 <botpie91> Can't connect to http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html?src=me&ref=general
21:44:26 <iceTwy> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html
21:44:28 <iceTwy> .title
21:44:30 <botpie91> Can't connect to http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html
21:44:40 <iceTwy> hm. "As Hospital Prices Soar, a Stitch Tops $500
21:44:42 <iceTwy> "
21:44:53 <iceTwy> I'm rather happy to have free health care in France
21:44:55 <iceTwy> jus sayin
21:46:35 <tintin> `free'
21:48:42 <iceTwy> tintin: free for the customer
21:49:51 <tintin> `we' all pay for it, I'm happy with that.
21:52:40 <iceTwy> tintin: indeed
21:53:01 <iceTwy> but then, if you are able to pay your regular taxes
21:53:11 <iceTwy> i.e. tax reports, bills, etc
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21:53:17 <iceTwy> you're funding a public health care system
21:53:23 <iceTwy> here, in France, at least
21:53:26 <iceTwy> and that is just good
21:53:40 <tintin> I agree
21:53:42 <iceTwy> I mean I know I won't restrain from going to the hospital if I'm injured just b/c of the cost
21:53:52 <iceTwy> "cardiac arrest? noooope. the hospital's too expensive!"
21:54:15 <iceTwy> a special field in economics is dedicated to health
21:54:19 <iceTwy> it's called health economics
21:54:26 <iceTwy> the two words put together makes me cringe
21:55:07 <tintin> i put economics down there with marketing and advertising
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21:55:20 <tintin> shameful occupations
21:55:24 <tintin> :)
21:55:46 <iceTwy> haha
21:55:57 <iceTwy> tintin: do you have access to public health care
21:56:00 <iceTwy> in your country?
21:56:21 <tintin> yes
21:56:29 <iceTwy> nice, heh
21:57:25 <tintin> not France :)
21:58:15 <iceTwy> :P
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