Cryto! 1 December 2013
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06:56:26 <John_Smith> Hey
06:56:32 *** John_Smith is now known as macbeth
06:57:04 <macbeth> Anyone know how to write an ISO to a CD w/ persistence?
06:57:25 <macbeth> I have used Google they only have tutorials on how to do it with USB
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06:58:31 <Guest24418> phuck...
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08:09:55 <Charles> .bitcoin
08:09:56 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $1075.23, 1 BTC = €840.00
08:10:07 <Charles> oooooooooh
08:10:12 <Charles> Q_o
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08:29:21 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
08:29:21 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-12-01#T08-29-21
08:29:22 <botpie91> joepie91: 01:29Z <frosty> tell joepie91 it's important and if he could contact me asap
08:30:15 <joepie91> weird stuff...
08:33:39 <macbeth> joepie91 Do you know of good ISO to CD software that I can use that has persistence?
08:34:41 <joepie91> macbeth: what?
08:34:48 <joepie91> "ISO to CD"?
08:34:51 <joepie91> "persistence"?
08:34:53 <macbeth> I need software to write Linux to a disc.
08:35:12 <macbeth> You know what persistence is, yes? You are a linux user.
08:35:33 <joepie91> macbeth: "persistence" isn't a word related to either CD burning or Linux, as far as I am aware
08:35:37 <joepie91> so explain what you mean
08:36:25 <macbeth> If there is 4GB persistence, then the CD/USB will remember that much memory. Rather then it being a LiveCD that doesn't keep installed programs or files.
08:36:58 <joepie91> what?
08:37:12 <macbeth> I really don't understand how I can make this easier to read.
08:37:28 <joepie91> macbeth; are you talking about savefiles like what puppy linux does, or what?
08:37:42 <joepie91> because that is not -at all- a common occurrence for Linux distros
08:37:54 <macbeth> That it would be able to save files?
08:38:45 * joepie91 sighs
08:38:52 * macbeth also sighs
08:38:56 <joepie91> macbeth, it helps if you make an effort
08:38:57 <joepie91> http://puppylinux.org/wikka/SaveFile
08:38:58 <joepie91> there
08:38:59 <joepie91> go read it
08:39:05 <joepie91> and tell me whether that is what you're trying to do
08:40:38 <macbeth> I'm pretty sure that that is not what I want to do. I just want to be able to click "Save as" on text docs and install software to my linux CD and have it stay. Because right now, when I shut down the CD and boot up to my normal OS, then go back to the CD it is just a Live CD that won't retain anything.
08:41:07 <joepie91> macbeth: that's exactly what I just linked you to
08:41:30 <joepie91> and without knowing what Linux distro you're trying to use - as very few support this and they might implement it differently - I can't possibly tell you how to use it
08:42:15 <macbeth> So "persistence" is how much memory the CD/USB will allow you to save to it.
08:42:31 <macbeth> What program do you recomend to put an ISO on a CD?
08:42:41 <joepie91> .........
08:42:45 <joepie91> <macbeth>So "persistence" is how much memory the CD/USB will allow you to save to it.
08:42:47 <joepie91> no, no it isn't
08:42:52 <joepie91> .wik persistence
08:42:53 <botpie91> "Image persistence, in LCD monitors" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence
08:42:56 <joepie91> urgh
08:42:59 <joepie91> .w persistence
08:43:00 <botpie91> persistence — noun: 1. The property of being persistent, 2. (computer science) Of data, continuing to exist after the execution of the program, 3. (meteorology) Continuation of the previous day's weather (particularly temperature and precipitation statistics)
08:43:17 <macbeth> 2 is what I'm talking about
08:43:34 <joepie91> macbeth: and you didn't even specify what OS you're CURRENTLY using that you want to burn a disc from
08:43:53 <joepie91> macbeth: except that refers to applications storing data in general, INCLUDING JUST SAVING SHIT TO A HDD.
08:43:59 <joepie91> which is why your initial question was completely unclear
08:44:05 <joepie91> and you really need to make an effort to clarify what you mean
08:44:14 <joepie91> instead of going "YEAH WELL DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN"
08:44:21 <joepie91> because if I have to ask, I clearly don't
08:44:42 <macbeth> Alright
08:44:43 <joepie91> you've also managed to spoil my mood pretty much minutes after getting out of bed
08:45:09 <joepie91> this would've been such a simple question if asked correctly...
08:45:37 <macbeth> Alright
08:45:52 <joepie91> "I'm currently on OS/distro X, I want to use distro Y that can save stuff to the CD it runs from, what application should I use to burn a CD that can do that"
08:46:09 <macbeth> Exactly
08:46:19 <joepie91> macbeth: yes, except that's not what you asked
08:46:34 <joepie91> instead, it cost two screens and 13 minutes of questions and confusion
08:46:38 <joepie91> to understand that the above is your question
08:46:55 <joepie91> and I still don't even know what OS/distro X is
08:47:04 <joepie91> or Y, for that matter
08:47:53 <macbeth> I am on Windows... I jsut want to use any Linux distro that I can put security tools on and personalize and put shit on that will help me to things. I will figure out what it is. All I need is the name of a burner. ATM: I am thinking that I will be using Puppy
08:53:00 <joepie91> macbeth: no, not "all you need is the name of a burner"
08:53:16 <joepie91> there are very few distros that -can- even save to CD
08:53:20 <joepie91> puppy is one of them
08:53:27 <joepie91> there are a few others, but most can't do it
08:53:31 <joepie91> so decide on a distro first
08:53:40 <macbeth> puppy
08:54:00 <joepie91> after that, if you do decide to go with Puppy Linux, you can use any application that allows you to burn multi-volume discs (ie. not close the disc)
08:54:07 <joepie91> and I'm pretty sure that CDBurnerXP at least supports that
08:54:12 <joepie91> but pretty much every application does
08:54:29 <joepie91> and you'll also want to use a DVD, not a CD
08:54:32 <joepie91> for space reasons
08:55:35 <macbeth> are there other words that mean "multi-volume"?
08:56:02 <joepie91> "don't close the disc" is the only other one I've seen
08:56:34 <macbeth> So, are you telling me I can not eject the disc from my computer when I'm done w/ it?
08:57:18 <macbeth> I do apolizige. It is very late where I am.
08:59:28 <joepie91> macbeth: wha?
08:59:34 <joepie91> <macbeth>are there other words that mean "multi-volume"?
08:59:34 <joepie91> <joepie91>"don't close the disc" is the only other one I've seen
08:59:38 <joepie91> I just answered your question
08:59:43 <joepie91> that is how it's sometimes put
08:59:46 <joepie91> "don't close the disc"
09:00:17 <macbeth> So it's just called that? I can actually shut down the disc?
09:04:46 <joepie91> ...
09:04:49 <joepie91> macbeth
09:05:04 <joepie91> you asked if there are other words for "multi-volume"
09:05:23 <joepie91> I tell you that sometimes, in burning applications, it is called "don't close the disc"
09:05:28 <joepie91> that is what it says in the burning application
09:05:30 <joepie91> with a checkbox
09:05:32 <joepie91> an option that you can check
09:05:41 <joepie91> I'm really not sure what is unclear about this
09:05:49 <joepie91> macbeth: just go burn the damn thing, at this point we're just both wasting our time
09:06:21 <macbeth> What is hard about this:
09:06:23 <macbeth> 1) I am stupid. 2) It is beyond 4am where I live 3) I am starving.
09:06:35 <joepie91> macbeth: then go the fuck to sleep and do this when you're more awake...
09:06:58 <joepie91> right now I am getting frustrated because you're not understanding things I say, because you're tired and hungry
09:07:06 <joepie91> I don't see how it makes sense for you NOT to go to sleep
09:07:11 <joepie91> you're not getting anything done
09:07:16 <macbeth> true
09:07:17 <joepie91> you're frustrating me
09:07:19 <macbeth> good night
09:07:19 <joepie91> why are you not asleep?
09:07:26 <joepie91> goodnight, and we'll talk about this tomorrow
09:07:28 <macbeth> i have actual work to do
09:07:30 <macbeth> that is why
09:07:33 <joepie91> do work when you're awake
09:07:35 <joepie91> not when you're tired
09:07:35 <macbeth> but yeah, nothing is working well
09:07:38 <macbeth> cya
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09:07:41 <joepie91> night
10:03:32 <joepie91> .title http://grahamcluley.com/2013/11/free-wifi-proxy-revealed-sneakily-bitcoin-mining-unsuspecting-users-computers/
10:03:33 <botpie91> joepie91: Free WiFi proxy sneakily mines for Bitcoins on unsuspecting users' PCs
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11:12:32 <DrWhat> .bitcoin
11:12:33 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $1055.00, 1 BTC = €818.00
11:17:09 <iceTwy> ugh..
11:17:10 <iceTwy> Amazon.
11:17:15 <iceTwy> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazon-insider-feature-treatment-employees-work
11:17:17 <iceTwy> .title
11:17:18 <botpie91> iceTwy: My week as an Amazon insider | Technology | The Observer
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12:00:53 <DrWhat> sheeeeeet
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12:50:08 <Cryto868> BOOOO
12:50:53 <Cryto868> QUALCUNO SA DIRMI DOVE POSSO CAMBIARE I MIEI BITCOIN IN EURO
12:51:46 <joepie91> Cryto868: http://howtobuybitcoins.info/, and this is an English-speaking channel
12:51:48 <joepie91> also,
12:51:51 <Cryto868> CE QUALCUNO CHE MI RISPONDE??
12:51:51 <joepie91> .welcome Cryto868
12:51:52 <botpie91> Cryto868: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off].
12:52:07 <joepie91> and turn off your caps lock
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12:53:24 <connor> lol
12:53:36 <joepie91> he was -this- close to getting a kick
13:09:17 <connor> bitcoin price seems to be going down :D
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14:31:55 <joepie91> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/aronets
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14:39:53 <connor> joepie91, what is that ustream chan
14:44:02 <joepie91> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25164990
14:44:23 <connor> ah
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14:48:37 <connor> it's getting worse
14:49:10 <connor> joepie91, wow check it now
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15:33:08 <joepie91> kinda cool: http://doc.opensuse.org/projects/libyui/HEAD/
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17:25:00 <MrPinky> joepie91 dns is done thanks
17:30:52 <joepie91> :D
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19:03:02 <macbeth> botpie91, tell joepie91 that I am sorry I was pretty thick. I'm moving over to Puppy Linux after it is finished downloading and burning. Thank you for your help it would have not been done with out it :)
19:03:02 <botpie91> macbeth: I'll pass that on when joepie91 is around.
19:03:57 <joepie91> good morning macbeth
19:03:57 <botpie91> joepie91: 19:03Z <macbeth> tell joepie91 that I am sorry I was pretty thick. I'm moving over to Puppy Linux after it is finished downloading and burning. Thank you for your help it would have not been done with out it :)
19:03:58 <joepie91> :P
19:04:12 <macbeth> He he
19:04:13 <macbeth> Hai
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19:36:15 <orbit> Hai
19:36:22 <orbit> joepie91 have you seen corelinux?
19:36:58 <joepie91> name vaguely rings a bell
19:37:26 <orbit> It's like a 12MB linux distro
19:37:56 <orbit> www.tinycorelinux.net/downloads.html
19:38:16 <orbit> distrowatch.com/tinycore
19:51:22 <joepie91> ah, tinycore
19:51:23 <joepie91> yes
19:51:25 <joepie91> heard of it
19:51:34 <joepie91> I always used puppy linux on low-resource systems
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20:01:28 <orbit> Puppy is alright I guess but I prefer core imho
20:02:01 <orbit> Oh wow puppy has changed a lot...
20:02:25 <orbit> Nope point taken I'll use puppy in future
20:02:58 <orbit> Ohh puppy even has persistance for USB's
20:07:10 <macbeth> yeah
20:07:17 <macbeth> thts why im downloading it now
20:07:31 <orbit> :D nice
20:11:03 <joepie91> orbit: more impressively, it does that for CDs as well
20:11:13 <joepie91> burning your savefile to the remainder of the CD/DVD
20:11:29 <orbit> Yeah hat is very imopressive
20:11:37 <joepie91> and encrypted, ofc
20:11:38 <macbeth> says 13 mins left in the download
20:11:44 <orbit> *impressive
20:12:05 <orbit> Encrypted? DamnnDamn I never thought it would be encrypted
20:19:04 <lysobit> Anyone who has be looking for a dip in BTC price
20:19:05 <lysobit> .bitcoin
20:19:06 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $837.76, 1 BTC = €678.23
20:19:25 <orbit> Holy fuck 800$?
20:20:49 <joepie91> wow, people are actually panicking over directory.io
20:20:50 <joepie91> rofl
20:21:44 <lysobit> I don't think that's related to this
20:22:45 <macbeth> .wik directory.io
20:22:47 <botpie91> "IO.SYS is an essential part of MS-DOS and Windows 9x." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IO.SYS
20:22:51 <macbeth> ...
20:22:54 <lysobit> "Page 1 out of 904625697166532776746648320380374280103671755200316906558262375061821325312"
20:22:55 <lysobit> haha
20:22:59 <joepie91> macbeth: http://directory.io/
20:23:03 <joepie91> it's kinda funny
20:23:10 <joepie91> lysobit: no, but people -are- panicking over it
20:23:13 <joepie91> on twitter and reddit
20:23:13 <joepie91> lol
20:32:16 <orbit> what?
20:32:39 <orbit> Did it get owned?
20:32:53 <orbit> Wait wut
20:33:10 <orbit> Seriouskly...?
20:33:18 <orbit> the private key to every bitcoin account?
20:33:23 <orbit> *wallet
20:34:07 <orbit> How the fuck did they have the resources to get ahthat?
20:35:21 <lysobit> Basically, someone heat sink'd the entire universe into one CPU to generate all 904625697166532776746648320380374280103671755200316906558262375061821325312 possible private/public key pairs
20:35:56 <orbit> I'm not even kidding is thtat even possible?
20:37:11 <orbit> Oh it's a joke
20:38:02 <orbit> Ohh I get it
20:38:57 <orbit> "Yes, and all PINs have also been leaked...
20:39:00 <orbit> " best cpomment ever
20:39:07 <orbit> *comment
20:39:51 <joepie91> .tw https://likeinamirror.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-nick-szabo/
20:39:51 <botpie91> joepie91: Give me a link, a username, or a tweet id
20:39:55 <joepie91> er
20:39:57 <joepie91> oops
20:39:58 <joepie91> .title https://likeinamirror.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-nick-szabo/
20:39:59 <botpie91> joepie91: Satoshi Nakamoto is (probably) Nick Szabo | LikeInAMirror
20:40:11 <joepie91> lysobit, orbit....
20:40:20 <lysobit> Yeah, saw it
20:40:23 <joepie91> do you understand how directory.io works?
20:40:23 <joepie91> :P
20:40:40 <lysobit> Probably the front page is static, and all the other pages generate keypairs on the spot
20:40:51 <joepie91> well, actually
20:40:57 <joepie91> I suspect nothing is static
20:40:58 <joepie91> just cached
20:41:03 <joepie91> and yes
20:41:03 <lysobit> I suppose so
20:41:07 <joepie91> it generates on the spot
20:41:11 <joepie91> that's why it takes so long to load a page
20:41:11 <joepie91> :P
20:41:13 <lysobit> but technically
20:41:22 <lysobit> then technically it really is every keypair
20:41:34 <lysobit> you just have to wget 904625697166532776746648320380374280103671755200316906558262375061821325312 pages to get it
20:41:36 <orbit> Yeah
20:41:43 <joepie91> lysobit: he still doesn't -have- every keypair
20:41:43 <orbit> lool
20:41:49 <joepie91> he is just -able- to generate every keypair
20:41:51 <joepie91> as is anybody
20:41:57 <lysobit> no, but he can generate them on the spot :P
20:41:59 <joepie91> whether that's triggered through a HTTP request is irrelevant
20:41:59 <joepie91> :p
20:42:04 <lysobit> I know
20:43:53 * lysobit tries MultiBit
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20:55:01 <orbit> Have you guys een the youtube bideo
20:55:30 <orbit> Microsoft Vista Speech Recognition Rested - Perl scripting
20:55:42 <orbit> It's quite funny
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21:34:36 <iceTwy> lysobit: you do not want a Java Bitcoin client
21:34:38 <iceTwy> believe me
21:34:40 <iceTwy> you do not
21:37:22 <joepie91> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3EvpRHL_vk
21:37:43 <joepie91> iceTwy: Java?
21:37:51 <joepie91> aaaaaand that just removed any chance of me switching away from Electrum
21:37:57 <joepie91> towards multibit anyway
21:42:45 <iceTwy> joepie91: multibit is written in Java
21:43:18 <iceTwy> and, joepie91, you really are everywhere on IRC
21:44:01 <iceTwy> "I'm the guy that makes you go "jesus, this guy is everywhere" when you join some random IRC channel and see me idling there. Still not sure if this is a good or a bad thing."
21:44:03 <iceTwy> hahaha
21:47:01 <joepie91> iceTwy: lol
21:47:03 <joepie91> where'd you see me?
21:47:49 <iceTwy> joepie91: ##crypto on Freenode
21:47:51 <iceTwy> :p
21:47:56 <iceTwy> though I sort of expected it
21:47:58 <iceTwy> ^^
21:48:21 <joepie91> lol
21:48:24 <joepie91> mostly idling there though
21:48:28 <iceTwy> ye ikr
21:48:37 <iceTwy> oh god
21:48:42 <iceTwy> I should stop saying "YE IKR"
21:48:51 <iceTwy> that sounds just as bad as it looks
21:48:52 <iceTwy> :/
21:49:15 <joepie91> hahaha
21:49:46 <iceTwy> as in..
21:50:03 <iceTwy> "ye ikr m8. wrek this shit"
21:50:32 <joepie91> iceTwy: don't do that
21:50:36 * joepie91 cringes
21:50:44 <iceTwy> mwhaha
21:50:57 <iceTwy> I like to laugh at chavvy language
21:51:19 <iceTwy> eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwpiHe6JNvg
21:51:21 <iceTwy> .title
21:51:22 <botpie91> iceTwy: U WOT M8? (Dead Space) - YouTube
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22:03:43 * joepie91 going to sleep
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22:12:34 <connor> .bitcoin
22:12:34 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $920.86, 1 BTC = €719.00
22:12:38 <connor> yay
22:17:24 <lysobit> iceTwy, joepie91: I couldn't care less what language the client is written in, as long as the low-level machine code works as it should, and frankly MultiBit is the only client that supports SPV. I'm not going to rely on third parties for the block chain like Electrum does, which defeats the purpose of Bitcoin.
22:18:15 <lysobit> also, MultiBit is recommended over Bitcoin-QT by the Bitcoin developers
22:18:46 <iceTwy> lysobit: Multibit is not the only client that supports SPV
22:18:54 <iceTwy> and, uh
22:19:05 <iceTwy> reread what you just said about not trusting a node, and using SPV
22:19:07 <lysobit> What other client does?
22:19:09 <iceTwy> Electrum
22:19:16 <lysobit> Electrum supports SPV?
22:19:28 <iceTwy> it is a SPV client, yes
22:19:46 <lysobit> On the website it states it connects to a central server to get info about the blockchain...
22:20:31 <iceTwy> not really central
22:20:34 <iceTwy> erm
22:20:38 <lysobit> oh wait
22:21:09 <iceTwy> lysobit: definition of a SPV client: A Bitcoin implementation that does not verify everything, but instead relies on either connecting to a trusted node, or puts its faith in high difficulty as a proxy for proof of validity. BitCoinJ is an implementation of this mode.
22:21:25 <lysobit> Is that new? Last time I looked into Electrum it connected to a central server.
22:21:35 <iceTwy> well, the community sets up servers
22:21:43 <iceTwy> I have set one up myself
22:22:09 <iceTwy> and by default, Electrum connects to a random server when it launches
22:22:27 <lysobit> iceTwy: doesn't MultiBit integrate with the main Bitcoin network rather than requiring a seperate set of servers?
22:23:06 <lysobit> http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet warns about Electrum being untrustwothy, but notso for MultiBit
22:23:08 <iceTwy> I actually have no idea
22:23:32 <iceTwy> well here's a thing to actually get full trust out of Electrum
22:23:45 <iceTwy> connect to an Electrum node via Tor
22:24:09 <iceTwy> since the Electrum server side implementation only saves the client's IP, their address(es) and their transactions
22:24:22 <iceTwy> you're pretty much anonymous if you use Tor + a new address
22:24:42 <lysobit> Hm? That's anonymity not trust
22:24:58 <iceTwy> uh
22:25:05 <iceTwy> what else do you want the node to do? ;)
22:25:06 <lysobit> The trust issue is the centralised servers you rely on for blockchain might give you bullshit info
22:25:13 <iceTwy> oh
22:25:18 <lysobit> Thus "forging" a transaction
22:25:30 <iceTwy> tbh what the relay does is that it passes on info
22:25:34 <iceTwy> about the blockchain
22:25:36 <iceTwy> no more no less
22:25:46 <iceTwy> all it does is to relay your transactions and blockchain headers
22:25:55 <iceTwy> /you/ create the transaction, /you/ sign it
22:26:01 <iceTwy> so Electrum nodes can in no way modify a tx
22:28:54 <lysobit> It's not about modifying a tx
22:29:31 <lysobit> It's about the Electrum node telling you that a transaction exists that doesn't
22:30:34 <iceTwy> and?
22:30:43 <lysobit> 'As Satoshi writes, "[the thin client] can't check the transaction for himself, but by linking it to a place in the chain, he can see that a network node has accepted it, and blocks added after it further confirm the network has accepted it." If we take "X" to be the "number of blocks added after it", then SPV essentially trusts that a transaction X blocks deep in the chain does not have inputs
22:30:43 <lysobit> which were already spent further back in the chain. Therefore, the validity of a transaction is determined by its depth -- i.e. how many blocks come after it. Other thin client protocols also include this assumption. '
22:30:57 <iceTwy> well
22:31:05 <lysobit> iceTwy: so someone can pretend that he payed you when he really didn't
22:31:08 <lysobit> paid
22:31:10 <iceTwy> it only impacts you --
22:31:13 <iceTwy> was about to say that
22:31:29 <iceTwy> but then the node would essentially diverge from the rest of the blockchain
22:31:34 <iceTwy> if it forges transaction
22:31:37 <iceTwy> s
22:33:21 <lysobit> "The attacker would not need to overpower "the rest of the network" because the client is unable to communicate with it. "
22:33:27 <lysobit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Thin_Client_Security
22:33:36 <lysobit> ("In an attack-by-ISP scenario")
22:33:59 <lysobit> I suppose typically it's not a major issue
22:34:41 <lysobit> but Electrum is not even as secure as that
22:34:57 <lysobit> Electrum is a "server-trusting client": All thin clients listed below currently connect to a single server, and are vulnerable to an attack similar to a double-spend. The attack can be run by that single server - the server can just lie to them that they received a Bitcoin transaction, and they, assuming the server does not lie, perform some service, transfer funds or send goods without actually
22:34:58 <lysobit> receiving any Bitcoin in exchange. Therefore, they are implicitly trusting it.
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22:36:10 <iceTwy> indeed they are
22:36:12 <iceTwy> good point
22:36:16 <lysobit> I'm guessing that's why there is a warning about Electrum but not MultiBit on http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet
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22:36:58 <lysobit> (that was not my point, it was copypasta from the wiki :P)
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