Cryto! 16 November 2013

00:02:54 <iceTwy> (60 + 7) * (80 + 2) = 4800 + 120 + 560 + 14 = 4934 + 500 + 60 = 5434 + 60 = 5494
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00:08:07 <lysobit> .bitcoin
00:08:08 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $412.03, 1 BTC = €325.60
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00:08:12 <lysobit> bubble, bubble, bubble... POP!
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00:09:32 <joepie91> wow.
00:09:34 <joepie91> just wow.
00:09:43 <joepie91> I think Dynadot just lost a (rather important) domain of mine
00:09:45 <joepie91> the last one I had with them
00:09:58 <joepie91> it expired like two days ago and I didn't get a single e-mail about it
00:10:11 <iceTwy> egh :/
00:10:13 <iceTwy> dynadot..
00:11:05 <iceTwy> my fucking god
00:11:05 <joepie91> iceTwy: and as far as I can tell, they have somehow reset my account e-mail to my old e-mail
00:11:07 <iceTwy> I HATE SCREEN
00:11:12 <joepie91> because I cannot recover my account either
00:11:41 <joepie91> wow.
00:15:58 <joepie91> well, e-mail sent
00:16:00 <joepie91> let's see what happens
00:19:16 <joepie91> iceTwy, y u no xmpp
00:20:29 <iceTwy> joepie91: because I'm busy being angry at screen
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03:02:03 <pzuraq> what's a good openvpn client for osx?
03:08:46 <probably> yay
03:08:57 <probably> joepie91 iceTwy ma skype music bot = amazing
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03:40:38 <Riddler> hello
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05:00:48 <Riddler> charles?
05:01:04 <Charles> hello Riddler
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05:01:16 <Riddler> Did you get my pm?
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05:01:44 <Riddler> okay
05:01:58 <Riddler> charles did you get the link in the pm about my article?
05:02:03 <Charles> no
05:10:55 <Charles> .bitcoin
05:10:56 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $429.44, 1 BTC = €329.22
05:12:22 <Riddler> .bitcoin
05:12:23 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $425.93, 1 BTC = €329.42
05:13:44 <cayce> dat wobble
05:14:14 <Charles> ya
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05:41:27 <pzuraq_> w00t
05:41:37 <pzuraq_> VPN
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06:07:03 <Charles> when will they be replenishing the btc?
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06:47:10 <Riddler> hello
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12:44:37 <probably> icetwy
12:44:37 <probably> -,-
12:44:42 <probably> fix ur tor addr for irc
12:44:43 <probably> -,-,-
12:56:30 <iceTwy> probably: is it down?
12:56:32 <iceTwy> shizzle
12:56:39 <iceTwy> probably: one sec I'm finishing up an article
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13:13:39 <MK_FG> iceTwy, Why were you angry at gnu screen?
13:15:03 <joepie91> AAAAAAND WE'RE OFF:
13:15:12 <joepie91>
13:17:37 <iceTwy> MK_FG: Silly mistake
13:17:51 <iceTwy> MK_FG:
13:20:07 <MK_FG> Hmm, why not get something like systemd, upstart, supervisord, runet or even ancient djb daemontools instead of screen?
13:20:33 <MK_FG> Unlike screen/cron, they are designed to start and monitor stuff
13:20:41 <MK_FG> And capture logging like you do with screen
13:21:15 <MK_FG> *runit
13:21:31 <iceTwy> MK_FG: iunno really. just wanted to give screen/sudo a go
13:21:53 <iceTwy> an Electrum server owner has pointed me to some start scripts for bitcoind & electrum-server
13:22:11 <iceTwy> might set it up in a while
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14:52:24 <probably> iceTwy
14:52:24 <probably> fix it
14:52:25 <probably> nao
14:52:52 <Charles> iceTwy, i saw ur twitter
14:53:25 <Charles> i couldnt understand the language :/
15:02:04 <iceTwy> Charles: like
15:02:05 <iceTwy> erm
15:02:09 <iceTwy> the tweet about Guthrie Govan?
15:03:16 <Charles> coz ur tweets r in french...
15:03:21 <Charles> or some other language
15:03:33 <iceTwy> yeah
15:03:37 <iceTwy> they are ;p I'm French
15:03:50 <iceTwy> hence why all my personal tweets are in French pretty much
15:04:02 <Charles> france has good opera singers :)
15:04:12 <iceTwy> I guess so ;p opera is not really a genre I listen to
15:04:21 <iceTwy> as you may understand from my tweets I'm more of a metal guy
15:04:26 <Charles> :o
15:04:47 <Charles> wow okay. i find metal devoid of emotion..
15:04:57 <iceTwy> Charles: oh. not that kind of metal
15:05:03 <Charles> its like hitting drums and screaming
15:05:03 <Charles> lol
15:05:19 <iceTwy> Charles: I almost exclusively listen to progressive/technical instrumental metal
15:05:30 <Charles> i like electropop :)
15:05:34 <iceTwy> as an example..
15:05:45 <iceTwy> listen to that and tell me whether it's devoid of emotion
15:05:46 <iceTwy> ;p
15:06:18 <iceTwy> I find beauty in technique - when musicians can express themselves through technique
15:06:37 <iceTwy> (and I don't really enjoy vocals in songs)
15:07:39 <Charles> oooh okay sounds good :)
15:09:43 <iceTwy> Charles: surprisingly this is metal
15:09:46 <iceTwy> ;p
15:10:17 <Charles> yeah very surprising xP
15:12:42 <iceTwy> got to "baaaawns"
15:12:46 <iceTwy> gotta go, yeah
15:12:50 <iceTwy> bbl
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15:20:08 <cayce> lol
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17:51:56 <Riddler> hello
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20:09:26 <probablyx> the tor node is strong in this one.
20:09:38 <probablyx> gosh I love this nice tor exit node :)
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20:10:29 <probablyx> not bad bandwidth usage though, lol
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21:18:12 <joepie91> third known subway taking Bitcoin:
21:21:12 <iceTwy> joepie91: what's the whole story about CoinValidation?
21:21:32 <iceTwy> apparently Walmart say that they're only going to accept Bitcoins from addresses that are "cointrusted
21:21:34 <iceTwy> "
21:21:40 <iceTwy> and the btc community has been raging
21:21:43 <iceTwy> what's it all about
21:21:54 <cayce> so, publicly ID'd?
21:22:13 <cayce> so they're enforcing KYC and AML on bitcoins coming into walmart?
21:22:15 <cayce> basically?
21:23:01 <iceTwy> hahahaha
21:23:05 <iceTwy> cayce: think so
21:23:30 <iceTwy> so then CoinValidation is all about trusting a central authority that links BTC addresses to customers via ID'ing?
21:23:46 <iceTwy> wattafuk
21:23:51 <cayce> I have no idea, answer your own question
21:23:53 <joepie91> iceTwy: tl;dr centralized for-profit organization saying what BTC are 'clean' and what ones aren't
21:24:04 <cayce> ahh
21:24:07 * joepie91 can't wait to see this blow up in their face
21:24:16 <cayce> reduces implied risk profile of btc
21:24:23 <iceTwy> aaah
21:24:24 <iceTwy> LOL
21:24:25 <cayce> reduces regulatory hassle for aml/kyc for walmart
21:24:26 <cayce> basically
21:24:48 <cayce> they can blame coinvalidation if the coins are "stolen" or whatever, somehow bad
21:24:50 <cayce> "bad"
21:24:57 <iceTwy> joepie91: but from what I've understood, coinvalidation is actually software
21:25:08 <iceTwy> and they aim to push it into the main bitcoin branch
21:25:19 <cayce> neat
21:25:25 <joepie91> iceTwy: more likely that coinvalidation has* software
21:25:26 <iceTwy> lololol
21:25:28 <joepie91> not is software
21:25:30 <iceTwy> yeah
21:25:32 <iceTwy> that
21:25:35 <joepie91> and eh
21:25:37 <joepie91> good luck witth that lol
21:25:43 <iceTwy> lolol
21:25:53 * joepie91 prepares the popcorn
21:26:04 <cayce> there's enough mixers around to make their job not overly easy
21:26:14 <MK_FG> It sounds like altcoin woven into btc blockchain
21:26:16 <iceTwy> if they test BTCs on the basis of taint
21:26:31 <cayce> yep
21:26:31 <iceTwy> (i.e. taint analysis) to find out whether BTCs are clean or not
21:26:34 <iceTwy> LOL
21:26:36 <iceTwy> really
21:26:38 <iceTwy> so what
21:26:42 <iceTwy> must it be tainted or not tainted
21:26:45 <iceTwy> to be validated?
21:26:55 <cayce> probably verified not-tainted
21:27:04 <iceTwy> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
21:27:05 * cayce shrugs
21:27:07 <iceTwy> hahahahahahahahahahahaha
21:27:15 <cayce> aka they'll never accept a single btc
21:27:17 <joepie91> have a look at blockchain taint analysis to see how well that works
21:27:18 <joepie91> :)
21:27:28 <cayce> cause they're all tainted
21:28:07 <joepie91> lol
21:28:10 <iceTwy> and the worst thing is that, if coinvalidation gets widespread
21:28:23 <iceTwy> MORE of those services will develop
21:28:25 <iceTwy> oh lol
21:28:28 * iceTwy prepares MOAR popcorn
21:28:39 <joepie91> I'm kinda excited about this
21:28:49 <iceTwy> joepie91: sweet or salty popcorn
21:28:50 <iceTwy> tell me
21:28:52 <iceTwy> :D
21:28:57 <MK_FG> btc dev people can also merge zerocoin
21:28:59 <cayce> I think it means we get to watch companies collapse
21:29:03 <joepie91> I suspect coinvalidation is going to be the first documented textbook instance of "this is why you do not try to fuck with BTC taint analysis"
21:29:12 <joepie91> :)
21:29:15 <MK_FG> "@matthew_d_green: We designed a new version of Zerocoin that reduces proof sizes by 98% and allows for direct anonymous payments that hide payment amount." \o/
21:29:16 <iceTwy> mwhahahahaha
21:29:22 <cayce> MK_FG:) is zerocoin a patch?
21:29:26 <iceTwy> ohmygod zerocoin
21:29:48 <cayce> MK_FG:) like, can it actually be merged into mainline
21:29:52 <MK_FG> cayce, Yes, I think they had code on top of bitcoin-qt or something
21:30:03 <cayce> MK_FG:) dude, sweet. I await for bitcoin-qt 1.0
21:30:32 <cayce> is 0.9 going to be the partial block thing?
21:30:41 <joepie91> block headers, yes
21:30:49 <MK_FG> I'd think they sould wait a bit till someone else than Matt Green looks at it or something ;)
21:30:50 <cayce> kk
21:31:09 <cayce> oh they will, mainline is slower than shit
21:31:12 <cayce> and that's a good thing
21:31:40 <joepie91> cayce: it is now
21:31:47 <iceTwy> I don't get how Zerocoin works though
21:31:49 <joepie91> it was a problem when wallet encryption was not a thing yet :)
21:31:54 <iceTwy> tl;dr crash course someone?
21:32:35 <MK_FG> iceTwy, You spend N btc to "mint" zerocoin and get a key for it
21:33:07 <MK_FG> iceTwy, When you spend it, you give use that key and other guy gets btc
21:33:18 <iceTwy> er
21:33:19 <iceTwy> so like
21:33:24 <MK_FG> iceTwy, But no one knows which "minted" zerocoin that key is from
21:33:36 <iceTwy> what?
21:33:51 <iceTwy> point the flaws in the following plan:
21:34:06 <iceTwy> spend BTC => they are converted to Mint Zerocoin, you're giving its key
21:34:12 <MK_FG> It can be proven that zerocoin with that key was minted and was not yet spent
21:35:05 <iceTwy> nah but
21:35:07 <iceTwy> I don't even understand the basic system around it
21:35:25 <MK_FG> iceTwy,
21:36:01 <MK_FG> I don't know anything about math behind it either
21:36:25 <MK_FG> Though have general idea of accumulators and how you can think of one
21:37:58 <iceTwy> so, essentially, zero knowledge proof
21:38:15 <iceTwy> A sends BTC to B
21:38:28 <iceTwy> B verifies that he has received BTC
21:38:32 <iceTwy> but he doesn't know that it's from A?
21:39:16 <iceTwy> OH right
21:39:38 <iceTwy> you buy Zerocoin from BTC, then you redeem Zerocoins to get back your BTC
21:40:31 <MK_FG> Yes, you know who used zerocoin at the moment, you just don't know which btc key it corresponds from
21:41:05 <MK_FG> I.e. can be passed on a piece of paper or something and no one knows where it's been before
21:41:14 <iceTwy> yeah
21:41:24 <MK_FG> (unlike btc, where all keys are linked into one chain)
21:41:37 <iceTwy> but here's the thing I don't get from what you said
21:41:59 <iceTwy> yes, assume you send BTC to a 'new' Zerocoin address that has never been used
21:42:23 <iceTwy> then it will be known that you
21:42:28 <iceTwy> 1. sent BTC to the Zerocoin address
21:42:57 <iceTwy> 2. if you retrieve the exact same amount (i.e. same one sent before & after), people can guess pretty easily that you redeemed your BTC from this Zerocoin address
21:42:59 <iceTwy> no?
21:43:23 <MK_FG> Yep, that's why they propose that all zerocoins are same amount
21:43:28 <MK_FG> I.e. 0.001 btc
21:43:36 <MK_FG> So you mind 1000 zerocoins
21:43:53 <MK_FG> And 9000 other people mint 1000000 more
21:44:01 <MK_FG> And you spend 400 zerocoins
21:44:07 <MK_FG> Where did they came from?
21:44:18 <iceTwy> aaaah
21:44:20 <MK_FG> *mint
21:45:16 <iceTwy> so essentially, Zerocoin lets you spend other people's BTC
21:45:23 <iceTwy> well you've paid for it obviously
21:45:44 <MK_FG> Guess it can be thought of as one huge mix node
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21:45:53 <MK_FG> Everyone puts their btc in
21:46:00 <MK_FG> Gets same amount in zerocoin out
21:46:11 <MK_FG> And then puts 0s in, gets btc back
21:47:22 <iceTwy> hmye
21:48:00 <iceTwy> well so essentially it works like currently implemented systems
21:48:03 <iceTwy> i.e. bitcoinfog/etc
21:48:17 <iceTwy> but it works within the bitcoin protocol and does not depend on a central authority
21:49:04 <MK_FG> Yeah, main difference I see is that there's no place where it can possibly be traced like these sites' logs
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21:49:13 <iceTwy> yeah
21:49:15 <iceTwy> nice
21:49:17 <iceTwy> bu
21:49:19 <iceTwy> t
21:49:21 <iceTwy> afaik
21:49:27 <iceTwy>'s implementation is open source
21:49:56 <iceTwy> buuuut who says they're not running a modified version
21:50:16 <MK_FG> What's and why does it matter?
21:50:55 <iceTwy> you
21:50:59 <iceTwy> have never heard of
21:51:04 <iceTwy> wat
21:51:40 <MK_FG> So you imply it matter because "it is common knowledge that it does"? ;)
21:52:04 <MK_FG> I mean, looks like a generic btc web frontend
21:52:07 <iceTwy> no
21:52:08 <iceTwy> lol
21:52:09 <complex> when was it since the last big bubble in the bitcoin market bursted?
21:52:17 <iceTwy> it's a HUGE bitcoin service MK_FG!
21:52:37 <complex> maybe its not a bad idea to invest a thousand dollars in BTC
21:52:49 <iceTwy> complex: indeed
21:52:58 <iceTwy> complex: afaik the last bubble was in April '13
21:52:58 <complex> but as my father said
21:53:22 <complex> i am then a part of the sheeps
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21:53:56 <complex> there are probably some guys that are having huge impact on the BTC currency, and can regulate it the way they want
21:54:05 <iceTwy> complex: miners
21:54:21 <iceTwy> they are the only ones who can influence the currency itself
21:54:36 <complex> you serious?
21:54:43 <complex> people can buy a lot
21:54:47 <complex> and then sell it
21:54:52 <iceTwy> that doesn't matter
21:54:53 <MK_FG> If it's investment into speculation of its value growth over some usd or eur...
21:54:54 <iceTwy> at all
21:55:05 <MK_FG> Then I'd think a lot of things can influence that
21:55:25 <MK_FG> Major players, media, devs, random experts, etc
21:55:26 <iceTwy> if we're talking about that, yeah
21:55:31 <iceTwy> it's all about the buyers
21:55:44 <iceTwy> but I'm talking exclusively about BTC itself
21:55:52 <complex> of course it does matter, if some people invest 20 billion dollars in bitcoins over 3 years, and then sell all of it, then the price will crack
21:55:54 <iceTwy> effectively, only miners can impact the currency itself
21:56:01 <MK_FG> Then you two are talking about totally different things
21:56:31 <iceTwy> yes
21:56:32 <iceTwy> we are
21:56:36 <iceTwy> that was a misunderstanding MK_FG
21:56:53 <iceTwy> I was talking about BTC itself, complex was talking about BTC compared to other currencies
21:56:56 <complex> so miners are keeping the prices low to a certain degree, right?
21:57:07 <MK_FG> No
21:57:18 <joepie91> awesome
21:57:27 <joepie91> looks like my random crashes are nvidia-related
21:57:30 <joepie91> either the hardware or the drivers
21:57:30 <joepie91> ffs
21:57:44 <complex> so miners doesnt produce BTC?
21:57:44 <joepie91> this kind of shit is why I hate nvidia so fucking much
21:58:38 <MK_FG> complex, They don't produce like +10%/week, and if they did, price would only go down by more than 10%
21:58:54 <MK_FG> (and not up 10%)
21:59:39 <iceTwy> joepie91: AMD be cool
21:59:55 <iceTwy> joepie91: I'm realizing that my i5-3570k is completely useless
22:00:02 <iceTwy> I played less than what, 10 games in 1 year?
22:00:04 <joepie91> iceTwy:
22:00:07 <MK_FG> Wat, amd is same crap
22:00:13 <joepie91> iceTwy: AMD isn't holy either
22:00:17 <MK_FG> With binary drivers at least
22:00:17 <iceTwy> no it isn't
22:00:22 <complex> MK_FG: is there any control over how much btc there is in total in the world?
22:00:25 <joepie91> but at least I don't experience random inexplicable fucking crashes
22:00:28 <joepie91> with every single card
22:00:31 <joepie91> regardless of OS
22:00:33 <joepie91> like I do with nVidia
22:00:47 <iceTwy> had some issues with Nvidia too..
22:01:04 <joepie91> MK_FG: AMD drivers behave notably better than nVidia ones
22:01:06 <joepie91> (proprietary)
22:01:06 <iceTwy> from my own experience, managing the installation of AMD drivers is easier than Nvidia's
22:01:13 <iceTwy> yeah, that
22:01:18 <iceTwy> because they don't mess up all the way
22:01:27 <MK_FG> complex, Depends on what you call "total" - you can destroy btc, like in satoshi dice or embedding bible into blockchain instead of ec keys
22:01:47 <MK_FG> complex, But aside from that - yes, totally predictable and fixed in the protocol
22:01:56 <joepie91> complex:
22:02:30 <MK_FG> complex, As in "each block gives 50 / 25 / 12.5 / less btc", starting from some block number and halving after N more
22:03:24 <iceTwy> the way Satoshi coded difficulty in Bitcoin is just smart imo
22:03:24 <MK_FG> Since my laptop died, I actually have amd card here, but with open drivers
22:03:27 <iceTwy> BUT
22:03:32 <iceTwy> it was based on one assumption
22:03:33 <MK_FG> Not a single issue so far
22:03:45 <complex> i guess everyone here thinks mining is a waste of time?
22:03:54 <iceTwy> that Bitcoin would become popular and that its exchange rate with other concurrencies would increase over time
22:04:00 GHOSTnew has quit (Ping timeout)
22:04:09 <iceTwy> complex: mining by yourself? yes, unless you've got a 1 TH/s ASIC miner or something
22:04:16 <iceTwy> god, not even talking about paying for electricity
22:04:35 <iceTwy> complex: cloud shared mining (i.e. is too damn expensive
22:05:04 <iceTwy> I've heard of some people mining altcoins then trading them to BTCs once those altcoins' BTC exchange rate increase
22:05:14 <iceTwy> which is a fairly smart way to make profit imo
22:05:25 <iceTwy> since new altcoins are easy to mine
22:05:35 <MK_FG> "cloud shared mining" "expensive" lulz
22:05:46 <iceTwy> MK_FG: sec
22:06:18 <MK_FG> I see the point of such thing, certainly
22:06:34 <MK_FG> Only it's not called "cloud shared mining", but "scam" :P
22:06:52 <iceTwy> roflolololol
22:06:53 GHOSTnew (GHOSTnew@GHOSTnew.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
22:06:56 <iceTwy>
22:06:57 <complex> .btc
22:07:03 <iceTwy> 8GH/s contract for $500 for 2 years
22:07:06 <iceTwy> ...
22:07:07 <complex> how do i call for btc-currency?
22:07:16 <iceTwy> 8GH/s when the difficulty will have increased in 2 years
22:07:18 <iceTwy> => LOL
22:07:23 <iceTwy> complex: !btc
22:07:25 <iceTwy> !btc
22:07:28 <iceTwy> !bitcoin
22:07:30 <iceTwy> .bitcoin
22:07:31 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $437.12, 1 BTC = €343.49
22:07:33 <iceTwy> ah
22:07:35 <iceTwy> there
22:07:36 <MK_FG> I mean, you put some money in, they give you less money out
22:07:37 <iceTwy> :D
22:07:37 <complex> .bitcoin
22:07:38 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $437.12, 1 BTC = €343.49
22:07:42 <MK_FG> Why do you need cloud for that?
22:07:45 <iceTwy> MK_FG: BUT U GON PROFIT MAN
22:07:48 <MK_FG> I can do that
22:07:50 <iceTwy> BELIEV US11!!
22:07:54 <MK_FG> Just gimme moneys
22:07:56 <iceTwy> okay
22:07:58 <complex> what
22:08:04 <complex> is this buying or selling price?
22:08:10 <iceTwy> buying
22:08:14 <iceTwy> I think
22:08:47 <complex> maybe i should buy 1 BTC or something
22:08:51 <complex> but i wait for it to crack
22:08:56 <joepie91> complex: neither
22:09:03 <complex> ?
22:09:07 <joepie91> afaik exchange rate is calculated based on past trades
22:09:13 <joepie91> not on current orderbook
22:09:13 <MK_FG> complex, You can buy crack for 1 btc already
22:09:57 <complex> so it is somehow a mean value of buying and selling price?
22:10:26 <iceTwy> MK_FG: lol
22:10:33 <iceTwy> MK_FG: lots of crack then
22:10:48 <MK_FG> Meh, it's not a million bucks yet
22:10:52 <iceTwy> definitely the last thing I'd do if I had BTC.
22:12:10 <joepie91> complex: no, I think it's actually the last executed trade
22:12:21 <joepie91> but not sure
22:13:41 <iceTwy> holy fuck
22:13:42 <iceTwy> LOL
22:13:50 <joepie91> I love this line in my logs:
22:13:51 <joepie91> 2013-11-16T22:43:00.770614+01:00 linux-rfa7 kernel: [11803.291240] Fixing recursive fault but reboot is needed!
22:13:53 <iceTwy>'s monthly bandwidth transfer: 414Mb !!
22:13:55 <MK_FG> joepie91, Just admit that it pulls values off /dev/urandom
22:14:00 <joepie91> "I fixed it but you're screwed anyway!"
22:14:01 <iceTwy> wow
22:14:17 <joepie91> iceTwy: ?
22:14:18 <complex> .bitcoin
22:14:19 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $437.31, 1 BTC = €340.00
22:14:21 <complex> .bitcoin
22:14:22 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $437.31, 1 BTC = €340.00
22:14:25 <complex> .bitcoin
22:14:26 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $437.31, 1 BTC = €340.00
22:14:26 <MK_FG> Oh yeah, double page fault or someting
22:14:29 <joepie91> complex: you're using up my API calls
22:14:30 <joepie91> lol
22:14:38 <complex> it looks quite stable though
22:14:39 <iceTwy> joepie91: has had 400Mb of bandwidth usage this month
22:14:41 <MK_FG> Aka page fault on page fault
22:14:43 <iceTwy> 414Mb rather
22:14:44 <iceTwy> that is enormous lol
22:14:47 <joepie91> complex: that's because the rate is not realtime
22:14:48 <iceTwy> am I popular or what
22:14:54 <iceTwy> well, &
22:14:54 <joepie91> iceTwy: eh, seems pretty normal?
22:15:01 <joepie91> don't forget crawlers
22:15:02 <iceTwy> joepie91: never was that high ;p
22:15:05 <iceTwy> yeah true
22:15:18 <iceTwy> still, that's good news :)
22:17:39 <complex> ehm
22:17:46 <complex> so what we do after BTC has been popular?
22:17:50 <complex> make a new currency?
22:18:05 <iceTwy> complex: not even necessary
22:18:07 <iceTwy> use altcoins
22:18:12 <iceTwy> litecoins
22:18:20 <iceTwy> then whatever currency is the most popular one after that
22:18:22 <iceTwy> and so on
22:18:41 <complex> oh
22:18:59 <complex> but litecoin and altcoins are alternative currencies, same level as bitcoins?
22:19:06 <complex> its just that bitcoin is the "popular thing"
22:19:23 <iceTwy> yeah
22:19:40 <iceTwy> I mean.. they probably have some differences within the underlying code
22:19:53 <iceTwy> but the protocol all altcoins are using is roughly the same, I assume
22:20:12 <iceTwy> so if there needs to be a transition, it shouldn't be that hard
22:20:20 <iceTwy> we'll be dead by then tho
22:21:02 <joepie91> altcoin blockchains are not compatible
22:21:24 <iceTwy> yes
22:21:32 <complex> iceTwy: so you should mine altcoins or litecoins if you are mining at all
22:21:34 <iceTwy> but what that means for most people is "download a new client, use another exchange site"
22:21:40 <iceTwy> complex: I think so.
22:21:43 <joepie91> iceTwy: not really
22:21:49 <complex> and then you should spam on facebook how good altcoins and litecoins are after you have got it
22:21:55 <iceTwy> joepie91: what are the further implications?
22:21:59 <joepie91> iceTwy: you'd have to figure out a way to get your BTC into whatever altcoin
22:22:00 <complex> write to dozens of newspapers
22:22:02 <iceTwy> complex: well wait til the price raises
22:22:06 <iceTwy> joepie91: ah, true
22:22:12 <iceTwy> joepie91: redeem them for USD, then USD => altcoin
22:22:19 <joepie91> iceTwy: no
22:22:20 <joepie91> wrong
22:22:21 <iceTwy> no?
22:22:24 <joepie91> that's the problem
22:22:28 <joepie91> you don't "redeem" bitcoins
22:22:30 <joepie91> you exchange them
22:22:34 <joepie91> and that is where the issue lies
22:22:36 <iceTwy> true
22:22:38 <iceTwy> but
22:22:43 <joepie91> if BTC is dying off, who is going to buy your BTC and be stuck with them?
22:22:48 <iceTwy> Bitcoin reaching its max capability =/= BTC not being used
22:22:57 <iceTwy> BTC can still be used even after we've reached the limit
22:22:58 <joepie91> "max capability"?
22:23:09 <iceTwy> joepie91: well, when further BTC cannot be generated anymore
22:23:12 <joepie91> and what makes you think that there would be a switch to an altcoin in the first place?
22:23:16 <joepie91> iceTwy: how is that relevant?
22:23:22 <joepie91> to.. anything, really?
22:23:37 <iceTwy> joepie91: well you can still get $ off by exchanging them
22:23:38 <joepie91> block rewards are a bootstrapping mechanism
22:23:45 <joepie91> iceTwy: you don't understand my question
22:24:01 <joepie91> iceTwy: you seem to be *assuming* that end of block rewards means end of BTC to some degree
22:24:07 <joepie91> that assumption makes no sense
22:24:12 <iceTwy> no
22:24:15 <joepie91> block rewards are not vital nor required nor important for the functioning of BTC
22:24:17 <iceTwy> that is exactly what I'm not saying
22:24:18 <iceTwy> lol
22:24:18 <joepie91> other than in the bootstrap phase
22:24:21 <joepie91> then what -are- you saying
22:24:26 <joepie91> and where does blockchain migration come in?
22:24:28 <iceTwy> the same thing!
22:24:33 <iceTwy> look at this:
22:24:53 <iceTwy> BTC can still be exchanged after the end of generation has been reached.
22:24:58 <iceTwy> so they're still worth $
22:25:11 <iceTwy> so you can exchange them for $, then transfer those $ to an altcoin
22:25:21 <iceTwy> two options for the people who still use BTC:
22:25:26 <joepie91> iceTwy: why would you want to exchange (not 'transfer') $ for an altcoin?
22:25:28 <iceTwy> BTC dies off and they're f**ked
22:25:34 <joepie91> what is the point?
22:25:38 <joepie91> why would you use an altcoin?
22:25:43 <iceTwy> joepie91: well that's for the migration bit
22:25:48 <joepie91> why would you migrate?
22:25:50 <iceTwy> once BTC generation has reached an end
22:26:02 <joepie91> what does BTC block reward ending have to do with migration?
22:26:10 <DrWhat> .bitcoin
22:26:11 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $436.89, 1 BTC = €340.00
22:26:23 <iceTwy> BTC block reward ending means that at least some people will switch to altcoins
22:26:28 <joepie91> iceTwy: because?
22:26:30 <DrWhat> wait whats going on with bitcoin
22:26:40 <joepie91> iceTwy: I can't help but feel you're misunderstanding how Bitcoins reward mechanisms work
22:26:50 <iceTwy> joepie91: because 1. misunderstanding, 2. media going like "oh no this is the end of BTC" when it isn't
22:27:02 <joepie91> iceTwy: why would people migrate without prior research?
22:27:05 <iceTwy> joepie91: herp, no, I'm not misunderstand it myself
22:27:05 <DrWhat> Oh this topic again
22:27:08 <joepie91> if that means potential loss of money?
22:27:13 <iceTwy> joepie91: because they just want to use an altcoin
22:27:18 <joepie91> iceTwy: why would they?
22:27:23 <DrWhat> I tend to just ingore the media on bitcoin becuase 80% of them are wrong
22:27:26 <iceTwy> not necessarily Bitcoin, or necessarily X altcoin
22:27:43 <iceTwy> not necessarily X altcoin*
22:27:46 <joepie91> iceTwy: you still haven't given a compelling reason why a migration towards an altcoin would take place in the first place
22:28:12 <iceTwy> joepie91: because 1. misunderstanding, 2. media going like "oh no this is the end of BTC" when it isn't
22:28:22 <iceTwy> factors external to BTC
22:28:27 <joepie91> I said "compelling reason", I addressed your points and you ignored my responses
22:28:27 <iceTwy> also
22:28:31 <iceTwy> assume the following reason
22:28:45 <joepie91> you're reasoning in circles now
22:28:57 <iceTwy> joepie91: god lol, listen first of all
22:29:07 <iceTwy> maybe those first arguments were not accurate
22:29:09 <iceTwy> but this:
22:29:49 <iceTwy> if people do not exchange BTC on a normal basis (e.g. the current basis) but instead decide to trade only a low volume
22:30:16 <iceTwy> then 1. not everyone who is willing to buy BTC will get BTC, because of limited selling
22:30:22 <iceTwy> 2. BTC should die off that way
22:30:29 <iceTwy> hence the migration to an altcoin
22:30:36 <joepie91> iceTwy: again, you are ASSUMING that people only trade low-volume
22:30:38 <joepie91> why would they do that?
22:30:43 <iceTwy> iunno
22:30:52 <iceTwy> I'm looking at all possible cases
22:30:58 <joepie91> so basically your entire reasoning is based on a scenario for which you don't understand how it would come about?
22:31:00 <joepie91> :|
22:31:10 <iceTwy> hmm
22:31:12 <iceTwy> :|
22:32:30 <lysobit> "1. not everyone who is willing to buy BTC will get BTC, because of limited selling" limited selling will just raise the value of bitcoin and deflate the currency so that less bitcoins buy more, and so people will want to buy less bitcoins
22:32:44 <iceTwy> hence the death of BTC at some point
22:32:56 <lysobit> No, why would that mean the death?
22:32:59 <joepie91> iceTwy: how would that cause the "death of BTC"?
22:33:23 <lysobit> People are still buying the same value of bitcoins, but less bitcoins because the value of bitcoins increase
22:33:36 <lysobit> It's a win-win situation
22:33:38 <joepie91> (rephrased; less BTC units are needed to represent the same value)
22:33:43 <lysobit> yes
22:33:46 <iceTwy> hmm
22:34:17 <iceTwy> actually
22:34:19 <iceTwy> you're right
22:34:21 <iceTwy> lol
22:34:27 <iceTwy> stoopid me
22:34:52 <lysobit> I think perhaps the biggest risk to Bitcoins at the moment is well, too much growth
22:35:07 <iceTwy> hmm ye
22:35:11 <lysobit> I don't think Bitcoin network is in line with Moore's law
22:35:24 <joepie91> lysobit: s/too much growth/Mt. Gox/
22:35:30 <joepie91> :|
22:35:33 <lysobit> At this rate, soon enough desktop computers won't be able to become nodes
22:35:37 <joepie91> (or in less specific terms, the immature ecosystem)
22:35:41 <joepie91> lysobit: hmm?
22:35:44 <complex> how long has this irc channel been active?
22:36:02 <joepie91> complex: as in, for how long it has existed?
22:36:14 <complex> yeah, and how long have you guys been investing in bitcoins really?
22:36:19 <complex> like, are you guys millionaires?
22:36:23 <joepie91> I'm not "investing" in Bitcoins
22:36:23 <joepie91> I use them
22:36:29 <lysobit> joepie91: the Bitcoin network is growing faster than Moore's law, if it continues growing at this rate, desktop computers won't have sufficient resources to become nodes
22:36:30 <iceTwy> lysobit: yeah, devs are thinking about choping off old TX's
22:36:34 <iceTwy> chopping*
22:36:38 <joepie91> I am also nowhere near a millionaire
22:36:58 <joepie91> as for how long this channel has existed, probably some 2-3 years
22:37:05 <lysobit> I'm the opposite of joepie91, I don't use Bitcoins
22:37:07 <complex> joepie91: buy vpns and stuff i suppose? like, i dont see the applications for bitcoin to everyday stuff
22:37:09 <joepie91> but this channel is not about Bitcoin; just happens to be a common topic in here
22:37:12 <lysobit> I only invest of them
22:37:13 <lysobit> in them*
22:37:14 <joepie91> complex: no, I don't buy VPNs
22:37:23 <complex> but that was an example
22:37:24 <iceTwy> complex: wat
22:37:29 <iceTwy> shops are beginning to accept BTC
22:37:33 <iceTwy> IRL shops
22:37:35 <iceTwy> that's cool
22:37:45 <lysobit> well yes
22:37:56 <joepie91> so far, it has primarily been receiving donations in BTC and either paying for VPSes (where providers accepted BTC) or exchanging for euros to pay other bills
22:37:59 <joepie91> I don't spend much money at all
22:38:05 <joepie91> regardless of currency
22:38:13 <joepie91> <lysobit>joepie91: the Bitcoin network is growing faster than Moore's law, if it continues growing at this rate, desktop computers won't have sufficient resources to become nodes
22:38:21 <joepie91> how do you mean "won't have sufficient resources to become nodes"?
22:40:11 <lysobit> joepie91: either: a) the Bitcoin blockchain grows so big that it's not desirable, practical or even possible to run on home computers or b) there are so many transactions per second that is has an undesirable effect on a home network connection, especially in countries with lower quality broadband
22:40:45 <joepie91> lysobit: blockchain size is being mitigated through immediately pruneable data, block header downloads and transaction pruning
22:41:02 <joepie91> transactions do not necessarily need to be broadcast by every node either
22:41:07 <joepie91> also
22:41:17 <joepie91> guess that's the end of my business at dynadot
22:42:19 <iceTwy> are they even serious
22:44:20 <complex> would it not be a good idea to invest a 10-20 dollars in both altcoin and litecoin?
22:44:54 <iceTwy> complex: why not
22:45:06 <iceTwy> complex: if you've got a couple of spare bills, heh
22:47:08 <complex> student loan yolo
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22:57:19 <joepie91> iceTwy: really, fuck Dynadot
22:58:40 <iceTwy> joepie91: yesyesyes
22:58:47 <iceTwy> joepie91: do you have any experience with Namecheap?
22:59:27 <joepie91> iceTwy: have two domains there
22:59:33 <joepie91> but I normally use
22:59:41 <joepie91> from what I've heard, namecheap is okay
23:00:40 <iceTwy> joepie91: hmkay
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23:09:54 <joepie91> lol
23:10:04 <joepie91> ASRock introduces motherboards designed for Bitcoin mining
23:10:11 <joepie91> (late to the party..)
23:12:31 <joepie91>
23:23:34 <DrWhat> It's never too late to try, who knows what might happen, maybe you'll make a fortune out of it!
23:23:38 <DrWhat> False advertising
23:23:44 <DrWhat> for the motherboard and btc
23:30:09 <iceTwy> yup DrWhat
23:30:11 <iceTwy> lol
23:30:13 <iceTwy> NP: Raining Blood by Slayer - from Reign In Blood (1986)
23:30:30 <iceTwy> lol
23:30:32 <iceTwy> funny
23:30:41 <iceTwy> went from fusion jazz to thrash metal
23:35:25 <iceTwy> oh btw joepie91!
23:35:32 <iceTwy> I received my first Electrum donation a couple days ago
23:36:24 <iceTwy> urgh
23:36:27 <iceTwy> Bitcoin donation
23:36:31 <joepie91> great, now my monitor is having hardware issues too, wtf
23:36:36 <joepie91> iceTwy: was about to correct you lol
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23:46:27 <iceTwy> NP: Her Love Remains by Sleep White Winter - from Dreamscapes (2013)
23:46:29 <iceTwy> much gud
23:52:05 <complex> fuck i suck in chess
23:52:59 <complex> lost three times to the same guy. two by mistakes that i would recognize if i didnt do my move in 5 sec
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