Cryto! 12 September 2013

00:01:41 <MK_FG> Actually, was there any sane working system without laws where people appointed arbiters (who resolved disputes and allocated punishments) somehow?
00:03:34 <joepie91> I'd have to research that
00:03:40 <joepie91> which I probably really should
00:05:07 <MK_FG> One important constraint should probably that such thing should exist on larger scale than village/town
00:05:21 Cryto330 ( has joined #crytocc
00:05:37 <MK_FG> Because there were village and tribal elders who seemed to fill that role
00:05:49 <MK_FG> *should probably be
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00:25:51 <MK_FG> I just thought of one such system, outside of meatspace, alas - slashdot-style karma-based moderation
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09:06:50 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Hallo
09:07:16 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Got the mod_rewrite working :}
09:08:21 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Using that instead of FallbackResource for backwards compatibility.
09:08:36 <wh1t3r4bb1t> loggy, pointer!
09:08:36 <loggy>
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11:08:38 <fed83390118221232832> that took you... a while :p
11:10:19 <fed83390118221232832> interesting
11:10:32 <fed83390118221232832> my status log for this network is bigger than the log for #crytocc
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13:30:52 <Amnesthesia> Hey joepie91
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16:05:07 <iceTwy> ...
16:05:17 <iceTwy> why the hell is Inception Hosting down
16:05:26 <iceTwy> my VPS rather
16:10:19 <joepie91> .tw
16:10:20 <botpie91> So, is Phonebloks going to be an open source/dev project as it should be, or yet another pseudo-save-the-world proprietary start-up? (@joepie91)
16:10:28 <joepie91> ohai iceTwy
16:12:34 <iceTwy> hai joepie91
16:13:29 <iceTwy> modular smartphones?
16:13:31 <iceTwy> fucking amazing
16:15:04 <joepie91> ohai
16:15:07 <joepie91> iceTwy: maybe, maybe not
16:15:21 <Amnesthesia> joepie91: tag it #Phonebloks?
16:15:24 <joepie91> it depends on whether it's a genuine effort to open up custom modular smartphones
16:15:29 <joepie91> or just a marketing gimmick
16:15:33 <joepie91> for proprietary components
16:18:54 <iceTwy> yeh
16:40:01 <fed83390118221232832> Are you actually even taking this idea seriously?
16:40:24 <fed83390118221232832> The guy who came up with the idea is a designer, not an engineer
16:40:42 <fed83390118221232832> If you ask an engineer about this, it'll seem like a joke
16:41:06 <fed83390118221232832> aka it's not feasible
16:41:33 <joepie91> fed83390118221232832: that's a very confusing nickname
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16:41:38 <joepie91> ah, I see what you did there.
16:42:02 <fed83390118221232832> source:
16:42:22 <fed83390118221232832> but hey, I'm not one to doubt
16:45:22 <joepie91> fed83390118221232832: I kinda fail to see the problem with this
16:45:29 <joepie91> mind linking to a particular comment?
16:45:39 <fed83390118221232832>
16:50:32 <joepie91> fed83390118221232832: honestly, the only thing I take away from that comment is "there has to be a sane layout"
16:50:40 <joepie91> which doesn't take away the possibility to replace individual parts
16:52:27 <fed83390118221232832> the layout depends on how big each component is
16:52:41 <fed83390118221232832> if you're forcing everyone to use the same components at the same position
16:52:45 <fed83390118221232832> it defeats the purpose
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17:20:29 <iceTwy> what the flying fuck is this.
17:25:36 <joepie91> ?
17:25:48 <iceTwy> right
17:25:59 <iceTwy> Inception Hosting are doing a maintenance on the node that hosts my VPS
17:26:07 <iceTwy> tomorrow, at 1PM, because of a failing drive
17:26:12 <iceTwy> (well, soon-to-fail drive)
17:26:20 <iceTwy> BUT my VPS is down
17:26:23 <iceTwy> and I can't back up my shit
17:26:42 <iceTwy> and they won't take responsability for any loss of data
17:26:45 <iceTwy> so I have to back this up ASAP
17:26:48 <iceTwy> but..
17:31:50 <iceTwy> it went down at 2.20PM
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17:37:53 <joepie91> KPN = craptastic ISP
17:39:41 <iceTwy> that we can see
17:47:07 <joepie91> :P
17:47:21 <joepie91> also, fed83390118221232832 , y u no regular nick
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17:55:03 <IFailStuff> hey im here
17:55:09 <IFailStuff> Are you here?
17:55:10 <aLLamoox> XD
17:55:12 <IFailStuff> I guess you are
17:55:15 <aLLamoox> Welcome IFailStuff
17:55:17 <IFailStuff> Thanks
17:57:04 <joepie91> ohai
17:57:16 <joepie91> now don't go timing out every 10 seconds here :P
17:57:18 <joepie91> oh
17:57:18 <joepie91> also
17:57:19 <joepie91> the usual
17:57:24 <IFailStuff> I wont!
17:57:29 <joepie91> IFailStuff: hi, welcome to #crytocc, please be aware that this channel is logged publicly
17:57:31 <IFailStuff> Yes, the usual
17:57:34 <joepie91> please read the channel topic for the rules
17:57:39 <IFailStuff> Ah yes
17:57:43 <joepie91> and you can prevent shit from appearing in the public logs by prefixing it with [off]
17:57:49 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
17:57:49 <loggy>
17:57:54 <IFailStuff> cool
18:00:07 <GHOSTnew> hi all
18:00:13 <aLLamoox> Hi GHOSTnew
18:00:31 <IFailStuff> :)
18:03:24 <GHOSTnew> hmm error
18:04:27 <joepie91>
18:04:36 <joepie91> GHOSTnew: known problem, click the most recent date instead
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18:05:19 <aLLamoox>
18:05:32 <aLLamoox> Is loggy bot?
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18:06:44 <joepie91> yes
18:06:46 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
18:06:46 <loggy>
18:06:50 <joepie91> will always give you a link to newest logs
18:06:55 <aLLamoox> loggy, pointer?
18:06:55 <loggy>
18:06:57 <GHOSTnew> joepie91, yes but I just wanted to report the error
18:06:58 <aLLamoox> I see
18:07:04 <joepie91> GHOSTnew: alright, thanks
18:07:12 <joepie91> it will eventually be replaced with different code (that viewer isn't my code)
18:07:16 <aLLamoox> loggy, help
18:07:16 <loggy> I'm a Python IRC logging bot. Source: Logging to:
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18:41:58 <joepie91> aLLamoox: that's actually false
18:42:07 <joepie91> the source is at
18:42:10 <joepie91> it's a modified version
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19:08:42 <joepie91> hmm
19:08:43 <joepie91> I wonder if..
19:08:45 <joepie91> botpie91!
19:08:46 <botpie91> joepie91!
19:08:48 <joepie91> aw
19:08:52 <joepie91> oh well
19:08:59 <joepie91> .bitcoin
19:09:00 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $127.64, 1 BTC = €104.11
19:09:01 <joepie91> !
19:09:04 <joepie91> it does!
19:11:59 <iceTwy> Does anyone have any experience/feedback with/on
19:13:08 <joepie91> hmmm...
19:13:10 <joepie91> iceTwy: one moment
19:13:13 <fed83390118221232832> that site is so hipster
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19:13:39 <fed83390118221232832> just like
19:17:40 <fed83390118221232832> VERSION
19:18:47 <fed83390118221232832> it would be mildly interesting to collect stats on IRC client usage
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19:19:03 <fed83390118221232832> something sites like lack
19:20:49 <joepie91> fed83390118221232832: should be fairly trivial to write
19:21:02 <joepie91> fed83390118221232832: also, can you change your nick, it's very annoying to have to prefix every highlight with a spacfe
19:21:03 <joepie91> :P
19:21:04 <joepie91> space *
19:21:32 *** fed83390118221232832 is now known as selling_credit_cards_pm_me
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19:26:00 <joepie91> no
19:26:01 <joepie91> just... no
19:26:10 <joepie91> I'm going to laugh if people actually PM you for this
19:26:19 <joepie91> which will probably happen the moment you enter #anonnews
19:26:27 <joepie91> :)
19:27:18 <selling_credit_cards_pm_me> "AnonNews: It's also not hackforums." :P
19:27:42 *** selling_credit_cards_pm_me is now known as lysobit
19:29:14 <iceTwy> this is starting to worry me
19:29:14 <iceTwy> my VPS is still down
19:29:14 <iceTwy> can't backup my data
19:29:14 <iceTwy> eeeeeeeeeergh
19:29:14 <iceTwy> I don't want to set up Prosody, charybdis, Atheme, dovecot & postfix all over again
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21:41:16 <joepie91> We like every search engine have to submit an IP address to get geo-relevant results and sponsored messsages, but the Epic Privacy Browser always masks your IP address when getting your results (also our servers never sees your IP) -- the entire last octet in your IP is randomized and earlier octets are slightly randomized as well to anonymize you.
21:41:24 <joepie91> find the problem with that
21:45:16 <Amnesthesia> >slightly randomized
21:45:17 <Amnesthesia> >geo-location
21:45:18 <Amnesthesia> ?
21:48:47 <joepie91> Amnesthesia: still wrong
21:48:47 <joepie91> :p
21:50:39 <joepie91> <joepie91>how can they randomize and geotarget an IP that they never saw in the first place?
21:51:28 <Amnesthesia> Fetch IP from generic "what's my IP"-website in browser, modify last .xxx, send to search engine servers?
21:51:48 <Amnesthesia> doesnt say their browser never saw it, says their search engine never sees it
21:52:14 <joepie91> Amnesthesia: this entire page is about their search
21:52:18 <joepie91> not the browser
21:52:23 <joepie91>
21:52:35 <Amnesthesia> "Epic Privacy Browser always masks your IP address when getting your results"
21:52:36 <Amnesthesia> :o
21:52:39 <joepie91> and even if it WAS about their browser
21:52:45 <joepie91> how do you geotarget on a masked IP?
21:52:58 <Amnesthesia> you geotarget on one that's from the same area but not exact IP
21:53:15 <Amnesthesia> since most ISPs have a specific range of IPs linked to a telestation
21:53:16 <joepie91> Amnesthesia: except it's a browser
21:53:24 <joepie91> and you cannot reliably spoof IPs
21:53:34 <joepie91> so you CAN'T randomize the IP from the browser
21:53:43 <joepie91> as the search engine will always receive the original IP the request originates from
21:53:51 <joepie91> nearly every home ISP prevents IP spoofing
21:53:53 <Amnesthesia> Yup
21:53:55 <joepie91> so this is not a viable strategy
21:54:13 <joepie91> it doesn't matter how you interpret this text, it's bullshit either way
21:54:25 <Amnesthesia> Haha yes
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22:05:43 <iceTwy> joepie91, cayce: IceNet is up!
22:05:51 <iceTwy> with a dedicated SSL cert for
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22:09:37 <lysobit> well
22:09:42 <lysobit> the browser has 'epic' in the name
22:09:45 <lysobit> 'nuff said
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22:15:38 <iceTwy> lol wtf..
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22:25:15 <iceTwy> joepie92; they have a corrupt raid on their node
22:25:19 <iceTwy> they're shutting the node down
22:25:20 <iceTwy> and therefore my VPS
22:25:23 joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout)
22:25:25 <iceTwy> I'm migrating to RootNerds
22:26:39 <lysobit> lrn2RAID1
22:27:03 <iceTwy> bleh
22:27:06 <iceTwy> funny though
22:27:10 <iceTwy> I subscribed on the..
22:27:13 <iceTwy> 28th of August
22:27:14 <iceTwy> or something
22:27:19 <iceTwy> today's the 12th of September
22:27:21 <iceTwy> so merely 2 weeks
22:27:25 <iceTwy> and their node is down
22:27:25 <iceTwy> LOL
22:27:36 <iceTwy> not going to continue with Inception Hosting. Sorry.
22:28:15 <joepie92> iceTwy: told you
22:28:18 <lysobit> inception hosting owns rootnerd
22:28:21 <lysobit> ?
22:28:27 <joepie92> iceTwy: eh
22:28:31 <joepie92> this kind of shit can happen
22:28:39 <joepie92> inception doesn't have a record of this happening afaik
22:28:47 <joepie92> just simple bad luck it seems like
22:29:27 <iceTwy> no
22:29:38 <iceTwy> lysobit: inception hosting =/= rootnerds
22:29:43 <lysobit> why?
22:29:49 <joepie92> unless there's something I'm missing
22:29:50 <iceTwy> they're two separate companies?
22:29:50 <lysobit>
22:29:51 <iceTwy> lol
22:29:57 <lysobit> not according to the whois
22:29:57 <iceTwy> it's still up lysobit
22:29:59 <lysobit> of your ip
22:30:02 <iceTwy> but they're shutting it down on the 20th
22:30:03 <lysobit> look in whois
22:30:07 <iceTwy> because corrupt data
22:30:08 <lysobit> look in whois
22:30:15 <lysobit> look at the abuse email
22:30:20 <iceTwy> .. ?!
22:30:23 <lysobit> its
22:30:34 <lysobit> therefore the two companies must be linked
22:30:34 <iceTwy> LOL
22:30:36 <iceTwy> LOOOOOOOOOOL
22:30:41 <joepie92> whoa, one moment
22:30:43 <iceTwy> WTF
22:30:47 <joepie92> whoa
22:30:47 <joepie92> stoop
22:30:49 <joepie92> stop *
22:30:55 <joepie92> one moment
22:30:59 <joepie92> lysobit, iceTwy
22:31:15 <joepie92> it's very well possible that inception hosting gets their dedicated servers or colo through rootnerds
22:31:27 <joepie92> in that case it's not unusual for the abuse email on the IP range to remain that of the provider
22:31:29 <lysobit> yes
22:31:32 <lysobit> most likely
22:31:39 <joepie92> as far as I know, there's no link between rootnerds and inception
22:31:40 <joepie92> directly
22:31:41 <lysobit> no
22:31:43 <lysobit> joepie92, no
22:31:46 <lysobit> look at the whois carefully
22:31:50 <joepie92> lysobit: yes, I have
22:31:54 <lysobit> IP Location: United Kingdom United Kingdom Newbiggin Inception Hosting Limited
22:32:03 <iceTwy>
22:32:05 <joepie92> yes...
22:32:06 <lysobit> Inception Hosting owns the IP block
22:32:07 <iceTwy> this is rootnerds
22:32:11 <iceTwy> so would that mean
22:32:12 <lysobit> but the abuse email is rootnerds
22:32:12 <iceTwy> that in fact
22:32:16 <iceTwy> hold on
22:32:17 <lysobit> suppose that makes sense, actually.
22:32:21 <iceTwy> wait
22:32:25 <iceTwy> I actually talked to RootNerds today
22:32:26 <joepie92> lysobit
22:32:34 <lysobit> rootnerds gets its dedis from inception, makes sense
22:32:44 <joepie92> huh?
22:32:46 <joepie92> no, the other way around
22:32:50 <lysobit> no
22:32:50 <joepie92> inception gets its dedis from rootnerds
22:32:53 <joepie92> and ignore the country
22:32:53 <iceTwy> The guy from RootNerds said that
22:32:56 <iceTwy> at his lunch break today
22:32:58 <iceTwy> he had to
22:33:02 <iceTwy> go to the office
22:33:03 <iceTwy> because
22:33:09 <iceTwy> this happened on a dedicated server:
22:33:09 <iceTwy> <RootNerds> 1,5 hours, worst setup ever, secondary HDD didn't have a boot sector
22:33:24 <iceTwy> and when I asked him
22:33:30 <iceTwy> he said that the server was the customer's
22:33:34 <iceTwy> not one provided by RootNerds
22:33:39 <lysobit> joepie92: The IP block is owned by Inception. This is hardcoded into the BGP database afaik
22:33:48 <lysobit> joepie92: but the abuse email can be variable
22:33:54 <joepie92> okay?
22:34:00 <lysobit> as the whois server is owned by inception
22:34:05 <lysobit> ?
22:34:07 <lysobit> yes
22:34:11 <joepie92> wat
22:34:16 <joepie92> no
22:34:17 <joepie92> sigh
22:34:30 <joepie92> lysobit: whois data for IP ranges can be delegated
22:34:33 <joepie92> to customers
22:34:36 <lysobit> yes
22:34:37 <lysobit> exactly
22:34:39 <joepie92> look carefully
22:34:44 <joepie92> mnt-by:         ACCELERATED-MNT
22:34:48 <lysobit> hence why the abuse email is
22:34:49 <joepie92> it's announced by accelerated IT
22:34:56 <joepie92> which is the datacenter where rootnerds is
22:35:05 <lysobit> hmm
22:35:12 <joepie92> the IP block is delegated to inception hosting
22:35:14 <lysobit> so how do you know it's not the other way round?
22:35:22 <joepie92> that what is not the other way round?
22:35:26 <joepie92> you've come up with like 3 reasonings so far
22:35:29 <joepie92> and I'm losing track
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22:35:47 <lysobit> How do you know that inception hosting rents from rootnerd, instead of the other way round?
22:36:17 <iceTwy> because AFAIK
22:36:21 <iceTwy> RootNerds are only located in Germany
22:36:26 <iceTwy> they've got one datacenter
22:36:29 <iceTwy> but
22:36:36 <lysobit> No, I'm just interested how he derived it from the WHOIS
22:36:38 <iceTwy> (and RootNerds are DE-based)
22:36:49 skill3r (skill3r@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc
22:36:50 <iceTwy> and Inception Hosting are UK-based, and they've got servers in NL, and UK
22:37:02 <iceTwy> (and used to have some in DE, but, well, kaboom today)
22:37:18 <joepie92> lysobit: because 1. I have heard of rootnerds renting out servers to other VPS hosting companies 2. I have not heard the same about Inception (and Inceptions primary business is VPS, I actually know the owner) and 3. it makes no sense to change the abusemail to that of the client while leaving the rest of the details set to the parent provider
22:37:31 <joepie92> goddamn lag
22:37:59 <lysobit> ah
22:38:25 <iceTwy> yeah
22:38:26 <iceTwy> like
22:38:30 <iceTwy> RootNerds have a massive datacenter
22:38:30 <iceTwy> so yeah
22:38:34 <iceTwy> ANYWAY
22:38:35 <iceTwy> gotta go
22:38:38 <iceTwy> it's fucking late already
22:38:40 <iceTwy> good night!
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22:38:42 <joepie92> ttyl, iceTwy
22:38:43 <joepie92> goodnight
22:38:44 <lysobit> night
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