Cryto! 31 July 2013

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09:04:21 <norbert79> morning... Sort of :)
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12:26:15 <MK_FG> Weird, why people aren't on irc all the time
12:26:22 <joepie91> ohai MK_FG
12:26:27 <MK_FG> Hi
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12:32:44 <MK_FG> Oh...
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12:37:58 <MK_FG> joepie91, Don't you have scheduling (i.e. arrival/departure times) in that dataset?
12:38:23 <joepie91> MK_FG: hmm?
12:38:45 <MK_FG> Wrt bus route planner backlog I'm reading now... ;)
12:39:04 <joepie91> the problem is that none of the datasets are complete
12:39:05 <joepie91> :p
12:39:49 <MK_FG> I wrote very similar thing for local trains in the past, also with "fastest" and "cheapest" criterias, which were then intermingled (with some ratio) in final results
12:40:19 <MK_FG> But it was kinda easy, since local trains have to-the-minute scheduling data and stop at very discrete and fairly spaced-out places
12:40:37 <MK_FG> (so you don't have to account for people moving between stops on foot)
12:42:31 <MK_FG> Wrt: "using a modification to Dijkstra's algorithm it should be possible to determine multiple routes"
12:42:51 <MK_FG> What I was able to do with trains is fairly simple:
12:44:13 <MK_FG> (1) structure db that all routes are separate, e.g. route-123-station-A is distinct from route-124-station-A, but there's a link between these (weight of it depends on timing of route-123 vs route-124)
12:44:51 <MK_FG> (2) find optimal path by Dijkstra
12:45:52 <MK_FG> (3) drop all possible combinations of routes in order, e.g. drop route-123 from graph (if it was in the path) and do dijkstra again, then drop route-124 (if it was in the path) - find path again, then drop route-123 and route-124, etc...
12:46:28 <joepie91> can you elaborate on (3)?
12:46:32 <MK_FG> It's kinda bruteforce, but should find all the possible paths, and worked wrt trains
12:47:12 <MK_FG> Well, let's say you have path found as A-B-C (A, B and C are id's of trains)
12:48:05 <MK_FG> You build a set of stuff to drop as {A, B, C, AB, BC, AC}
12:48:44 <MK_FG> Then do "for combo in this_set: drop_combo_from_graph(combo) && dijkstra"
12:49:01 <MK_FG> For each new path found, repeat such combo-building
12:49:58 <joepie91> I don't quite understand what you mean with "drop"
12:50:02 <joepie91> could you perhaps write some pseudo-code?
12:50:06 <MK_FG> Data set was ~250 trains and ~800 stations
12:50:07 <joepie91> I think that might help me understand it better
12:51:15 <MK_FG> Heh, I think I can do that without pseudo...
12:56:56 <joepie91> lol:
13:54:02 <joepie91>
13:54:06 <joepie91> this is a very odd model
13:54:14 <joepie91> The charity, which has 25 outlets nationwide, makes its money from landlords paying them a donation, rather than paying empty property tax.
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14:25:00 <mikaa> %% ?s=%22%3E%3CSCRIPT%3Ealert%28String.fromCharCode%2888,83,83%29%29%3C/SCRIPT%3E%3CMARQUEE%20BGCOLOR=%22RED%22%3E%3CH1%3EXSS%3C/H1%3E%3C/MARQUEE%3E%27%22%3E%3CSCRIPT%3Ealert%28String.fromCharCode%2888,83,83%29%29%3C/SCRIPT%3E%3CMARQUEE%20BGCOLOR=%22RED%22%3E%3CH1%3EXSS%3C/H1%3E%3C/MARQUEE%3E%27%22%3E%3CIMG%20%22%22%22%3E%3CSCRIPT%3Ealert%28%22XSS%22%29%3C/SCRIPT%3E%22%3E%3CMARQUEE%20BGCOLOR=%22RED%22%3E%3CH1%3EXSS%3C/H1%3E%3C/MARQUEE%3E%27%2
14:25:00 <mikaa> 2%3E%3C%3CSCRIPT%3Ealert%28%22XSS%22
14:25:08 <mikaa> whoops
14:25:13 <mikaa> sorry
14:33:27 <dpk> #csb
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15:49:30 * zxcvbnm nods at MK_FG
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17:07:01 <joepie91> this makes me a VERY happy panda:
17:12:55 <ElectRo`> all this cool crypto related software
17:12:59 <ElectRo`> foreveralone.jpg
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17:19:42 <MK_FG> Yeah, good secure p2p messenger have been missing for a while
17:20:20 <joepie91> MK_FG: not quite
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17:20:23 <MK_FG> Especially one with djb crypto and pubkeys as id's \o/
17:20:29 <joepie91> just no fancy looking one with video calling existed
17:20:32 <MK_FG> Jitsi?
17:20:33 <joepie91> that was also good
17:20:43 <joepie91> MK_FG: I was under the impression we were talking about good IM clients :)
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17:21:08 <ElectRo`> i switched to gibberbot when google killed gtalk
17:21:09 <MK_FG> Sure, but ok, what is there?
17:21:21 <joepie91> given that every person I've pointed at Jitsi has complained about bugs, and I never managed to actually initiate a call myself -at all-, and it's Java and slow as shit
17:21:24 <joepie91> I would not class it as 'good'
17:21:35 <joepie91> MK_FG: nothing, that's the problem
17:21:39 <joepie91> that's why tox makes me a happy panda
17:22:00 <MK_FG> Oh, I thought by "not quite" you meant that there are plenty ;)
17:22:11 <joepie91> no
17:22:15 <joepie91> there's one
17:22:17 <joepie91> but it doesn't do video
17:22:18 <joepie91> (properly)
17:22:20 <joepie91> Pidgin + OTR
17:22:20 <joepie91> :p
17:22:31 <MK_FG> *beep* centralized!
17:22:42 <joepie91> ... no, it's not?
17:22:50 <joepie91> XMPP is federated
17:22:54 <joepie91> and you can easily set up your own
17:22:56 <joepie91> I consider that P2P
17:23:01 <MK_FG> Har har
17:23:05 <joepie91> less user-friendly P2P, but still P2P
17:24:19 <MK_FG> I'd say it's much more pain than making that person use netcat over ssh or something
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17:24:41 <MK_FG> There's one true p2p messengah
17:25:24 <joepie91> MK_FG: apt-get install prosody
17:25:25 <joepie91> pretty much
17:28:05 <MK_FG> It looks fairly simple, indeed
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17:39:15 * MK_FG watches lulzy
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17:40:10 <iceTwy> Hola
17:41:16 <joepie91> hai iceTwy
17:41:18 <joepie91>
17:41:42 <iceTwy> Sec joepie91
17:42:27 <iceTwy> Secure VoIP and mail?!
17:42:30 <iceTwy> Wow
17:42:38 <Ari> I checked it out
17:42:39 <Ari> seems nice
17:42:42 <iceTwy> Have y'all heard about XKeyScore?
17:43:03 <Ari> I haven't
17:43:17 <iceTwy> Erm
17:43:28 <iceTwy> Check the Guardian's front page
17:43:42 <iceTwy> Basically XKeyScore is PRISM
17:44:00 <iceTwy> But it's twice as invasive at it goes past retrieving metadata
17:44:08 <joepie91> iceTwy: re: Tox, seems like someone is -finally- doing it right
17:44:18 <iceTwy> Definitely joepie91
17:44:30 <iceTwy> Free Skype? Yay
17:44:48 <joepie91> also, re x-keyscore
17:44:48 <iceTwy> There was Ekiga back in the days
17:44:58 <joepie91> looks like the US is going to have a problem :)
17:45:04 <iceTwy> Haha
17:45:08 <joepie91> iceTwy: Ekiga was never user-friendly, uses SIP, and generally works like shit
17:45:16 <iceTwy> Snowden <3
17:45:27 <iceTwy> Yeah I'm aware joepie91
17:45:41 <iceTwy> Oh btw do you know where I am at?
17:45:47 <iceTwy> Atm*
17:45:59 <joepie91> in the same location as when I talked to you like 2 days ago?
17:46:00 <joepie91> :p
17:46:27 <iceTwy> Was it a big city? :p
17:47:20 <iceTwy> joepie91 ^
17:47:39 <joepie91> no idea, you weren't that specific
17:47:42 <joepie91> XMPP + OTR perhaps? :P
17:47:48 <iceTwy> Ya
17:48:37 <iceTwy> Sec
17:48:41 <iceTwy> Busy
17:53:15 <iceTwy> Ping?
18:00:27 <iceTwy> joepie91; ping
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18:26:41 <monod> hi guyz!
18:29:01 <monod> dpk: were you programming a new interface to automaticly (lady-3jane: giggle with mey) found the way to travel around in a city?
18:29:09 <monod> or was just "homework" or something?
18:34:32 <MK_FG> When I build my army of robots I won't bother with pathfinding, will just equip them with landscape annihilators on the front - problem solved
18:35:07 <monod> quite conqueror style
18:35:19 <monod> terminator*
18:35:20 <monod> :D
18:35:40 <dpk> monod: that's joepie91's new project
18:35:48 <dpk> public transport planner for the UK
18:36:05 <dpk> like, but for Britain!
18:36:24 <monod> ohhh. Going to have a look at
18:36:26 <MK_FG> Surely brits must have a few of these already?
18:36:48 <joepie91> new potential project*
18:36:52 <joepie91> depending on feasability
18:36:58 <joepie91> MK_FG: thought so too, then found out not
18:37:07 <MK_FG> Wankers!
18:37:12 <monod> joepie91, I see that you're thinking about problems
18:37:18 <IR601> bus wankers!
18:37:37 * monod reading logs
18:39:08 <monod> is really java bad?
18:39:22 <monod> is all of an academic lie that of java being useful?
18:39:26 <monod> and why
18:39:34 <monod> "yes, because", "no, because"
18:39:52 <MK_FG> Oh god no, because HOLYWAR
18:40:02 <monod> hahahah
18:40:05 <monod> what the heck..?
18:40:15 <joepie91> monod: Java is bulky, resource-hungry, and slow
18:40:19 <joepie91> yes, I know computation is fast
18:40:21 <joepie91> it's slow to the end user
18:41:19 <monod> "yes, I know computation is fast" what do you mean? I think I'll better understand the following too after you answer to that: "it's slow to the end user"
18:41:31 <monod> GOODIE:
18:41:35 <monod> it's what you think it is.
18:42:38 <monod> I now understood what "holywar" meant, that actually is "holy war" I think..
18:43:29 <zxcvbnm> so the NSA was sniffing http? and thats the big revelation of xkeyscore"?
18:43:45 <monod> eh?
18:44:28 <zxcvbnm> less than impressive
18:45:19 <zxcvbnm> as far as the technical prowess
18:47:44 <dpk> monod:
18:47:54 <dpk> i think is the phenomenon that joepie91 is talking about
18:50:25 <MK_FG> zxcvbnm, There's also
18:51:02 <MK_FG> And slides on how it targets people using encryption...
18:51:03 <iceTwy> Amazing monod
18:51:21 <iceTwy> Love the LMDDGTFY website lol
18:51:32 <MK_FG> And the most disturbing one - row of red round boats around antarctica
18:51:49 <MK_FG> I've heard they're expecting invasion of White Walkers from there
18:53:37 <joepie91> monod: if you benchmark things in Java that rely heavily on computation of things
18:53:41 <joepie91> you'll find that it achieves near-native performance
18:53:55 <joepie91> however, the user experience is very slow, laggy, and clunky
18:58:52 <joepie91>
18:58:53 <joepie91> classy
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19:06:20 <MK_FG> I'm still puzzled by this crap, it doesn't seem to make sense for gov to attack these things for any reason
19:07:02 <MK_FG> It's not like they threaten gov or such attacks expand gov power significantly...
19:08:20 <MK_FG> And they do generate bad press, though admitedly, I haven't seen in-country media doesn't report any of these ever
19:08:48 <MK_FG> s/doesn't//
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19:19:55 <zxcvbnm> aaaand
19:20:03 <zxcvbnm> I redact my statement about the "less than impressive" technical prowess.
19:20:09 <zxcvbnm> the guardian's article is just so fluffy
19:20:17 <zxcvbnm> if you go and look at the slide show itself...
19:20:22 <zxcvbnm> some of the implications of what they can look for
19:20:40 <zxcvbnm> i.e. "show me all VPN startups in country X and give me the data so I can decrypt it"
19:23:54 <joepie91> s/redact/retract/
19:24:02 <joepie91> redacting would be something very different :)
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19:52:15 <joepie91> it's amusing how the X-KEYSCORE logo is basically just two pieces of WordArt overlaid on each other
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20:17:44 <zxcvbnm> oh there is plenty of wordart in those pres-o's
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20:58:54 <mikaa> hehe YES WE SCAN funniest i read today
21:19:27 <mikaa> oh... on a protest banner btw
21:31:32 <snowy> :D
21:32:36 <joepie91> right, I'm starting to mentally block out anything that even -looks- feministic, because every time I come across anything related to feminism it seems to be cliché-laden overly-victim-mentality reverse-discrimination generalizing drivel
21:32:44 <joepie91> with barely any real substance
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22:26:06 <zxcvbnm> off to defcon, later folks
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