Cryto! 22 July 2013
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00:29:19 <AnonO_o> how long is nickserv gonna be dead... or is it dead dead
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00:47:33 <Ari> dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead
00:48:25 <AnonO_o> sad
00:48:42 <Ari> i honestly have no idea
00:48:43 <Ari> but lol
01:04:12 <x> :(
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02:29:50 <lady-3jane> ugh fuck
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04:16:29 <x> LoS :3
04:17:42 <Ari> sleep time.
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05:07:21 <LastOneStanding> heya x
05:07:26 <LastOneStanding> you still around
05:07:34 <x> I'm here
05:07:40 <x> hai
05:07:43 <LastOneStanding> he
05:07:47 <LastOneStanding> hows it going
05:07:56 <x> gewd here :3
05:07:59 <x> you?
05:08:14 <LastOneStanding> bored
05:08:20 <LastOneStanding> annoyed
05:08:35 * x is playing wit packets n junk lol
05:08:42 <x> annoyed by xz?
05:08:44 <x> :p
05:11:33 <LastOneStanding> lol no\
05:11:38 <LastOneStanding> i kinda made up with him
05:11:51 <x> good
05:11:55 <x> <33
05:13:53 <LastOneStanding> he might be a douche
05:13:57 <LastOneStanding> but hes my diuche
05:14:04 <LastOneStanding> hes my sensie
05:14:21 <x> he's cool, once you get past his goat thick skin :3
05:14:28 <LastOneStanding> sensei
05:14:42 <LastOneStanding> ive known him since i srtarted in anon
05:16:59 <x> ^_^
05:17:05 <x> he good pplz <3
05:20:52 <LastOneStanding> so whats up with you
05:27:15 <x> not much, just lending a helping hand
05:27:17 <x> <3
05:34:51 <LastOneStanding> yeah
05:34:57 <LastOneStanding> to who?
05:46:35 LastOneStanding has quit (User quit: <censored> you guys, I'm going home.)
05:48:11 <lady-3jane> first box is packed!
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07:03:22 <MK_FG> Changing address?
07:34:23 <lady-3jane> MK_FG:) yeah :)
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10:15:08 <iceTwy> Hola
10:15:37 <iceTwy> Is anyone following the royal baby's birth atm?
10:31:37 <twitchyliquid64> iceTwy: whos that?
10:31:44 <iceTwy> bleh
10:31:50 <iceTwy> kate middleton & blahblah
10:31:51 <iceTwy> also
10:31:55 <iceTwy> in unrelated news
10:31:57 <iceTwy> have a good laugh
10:32:01 <iceTwy> http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/07/hack-exposes-e-mail-addresses-password-data-for-2-million-ubuntu-forum-users/
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11:01:18 <MK_FG> "passwords were cryptographically scrambled using the MD5"
11:01:44 <MK_FG> It's amazing why everyone uses md5 despite constant stream of news like that
11:02:56 <MK_FG> Penguin with ak47 logo there is awesome indeed
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11:21:29 <ryan_> Why are hashes even relevant
11:21:35 <ryan_> nobody reuses their passwords, right?
11:22:30 <iceTwy> lol
11:22:35 <iceTwy> oh, lol, ryan_
11:22:40 <iceTwy> I'm tired of this
11:22:49 <iceTwy> I'm writing a simple article about how to use GPG on Linux & Windows
11:22:50 <iceTwy> Like
11:22:57 <iceTwy> I'm writing this in the most simple manner I can
11:23:24 <iceTwy> so that everyone no matter how experienced they are with a PC, can use GPG
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12:36:14 <iceTwy> I love writing articles
12:36:17 <iceTwy> but it takes a while!
12:36:29 <iceTwy> especially when you're looking at 4 different ways to do the same thing
13:46:21 <iceTwy> first part posted > http://blog.icetwy.re/
13:54:48 <DaSpirit> Do people really have things that important?
13:55:41 <iceTwy> Hmm?
13:56:38 <DaSpirit> I don't see why you should use PGP unless you're a billionaire or work in the government :p
13:56:46 <iceTwy> huh
13:57:03 <iceTwy> Well that all depends on you really
13:57:16 <iceTwy> For the sake of privacy/dignity I like to have my communications just
13:57:17 <iceTwy> safe
13:57:34 <iceTwy> I don't want them to be stored in NSA data centers
13:57:42 <iceTwy> I don't necessarily have things to hide
13:57:48 <DaSpirit> You shouldn't be afraid of the NSA if you're not doing anything wrong.
13:57:59 <iceTwy> That's what you think.
13:58:18 <iceTwy> Do you really like having people reading your emails and all that stuff?
13:58:32 <DaSpirit> Let me check my email.
13:58:49 <DaSpirit> Nope, wouldn't mind.
13:59:08 <DaSpirit> And it's not like a person reads it. It's most likely a bot.
13:59:19 <iceTwy> What?
13:59:20 <iceTwy> No.
13:59:29 <iceTwy> NSA have analysts reading your email when they're investigating you.
13:59:38 <DaSpirit> You think they have enough people to read EVERYONE's email?
13:59:46 <iceTwy> They target some people obviously
13:59:55 <iceTwy> But they do store all of your data
14:00:02 <iceTwy> How fancy is that
14:00:35 <DaSpirit> It's fine. If I'm ever in trouble, they'll know for certain that I did nothing wrong.
14:01:59 <iceTwy> I'm still surprised
14:02:06 <iceTwy> You don't mind that all of your data is stored in data centers
14:02:22 <iceTwy> And that analysts in those data centers can read up any of this data without a permission?
14:02:36 <iceTwy> Your job, your bank account, your family, etc
14:03:22 <DaSpirit> I don't have a job, I don't get emails from my bank and I don't speak to my family online.
14:04:42 <iceTwy> email is only one example
14:04:46 <iceTwy> social networks are monitored lol
14:05:31 <DaSpirit> I don't mind. They'll have fun reading party invitations and smiley faces.
14:06:27 <DaSpirit> I like how joepie thinks. He believes in morals doing the work.
14:06:40 <DaSpirit> They can have access, but morals will stop them from reading my stuff.
14:06:46 <iceTwy> Morals?
14:06:51 <DaSpirit> Yes.
14:06:51 <iceTwy> No.
14:06:54 <DaSpirit> Why not?
14:07:02 <iceTwy> Snowden's revealed that every analyst can read up on w/e they want
14:07:03 <iceTwy> And they do
14:07:04 <iceTwy> it
14:07:25 <DaSpirit> And what happens when they do?
14:07:26 <iceTwy> That was in one of the revelations from Snowden/The Guardian
14:07:32 <iceTwy> They find out everything about you.
14:07:58 <DaSpirit> Why would they want to find out everything about an average nobody?
14:08:42 <iceTwy> because average nobodies are potential threats
14:08:47 <iceTwy> i.e. Tsarnaev
14:08:51 <iceTwy> completely normal teen
14:08:56 <DaSpirit> Who's that?
14:08:58 <iceTwy> turned into a terrorist
14:09:13 <iceTwy> The guy who bombed shit up at the Boston marathon
14:09:16 <iceTwy> with his brother
14:09:45 <DaSpirit> He bombed some place though.
14:09:45 <iceTwy> Average nobodies are what they /fear/
14:09:49 <iceTwy> Yeah.
14:09:52 <iceTwy> But he was an average nobody
14:10:50 <DaSpirit> Hmm...
14:11:10 <DaSpirit> I dunno. I wouldn't feel safe knowing that they can't access my data.
14:11:16 <DaSpirit> They do stop actual threats, no?
14:11:24 <iceTwy> well sometimes
14:11:27 <iceTwy> not 100% of the time
14:11:30 <iceTwy> for a simple reason:
14:11:37 <iceTwy> when you're a terrorist you don't go on Internet and say like
14:11:41 <iceTwy> "yeah I'm going to fuck shit up"
14:11:54 <iceTwy> if NSA thought that a terrorist would do that
14:11:59 <iceTwy> and started monitoring Internet because of that
14:12:00 <iceTwy> I mean
14:12:04 <iceTwy> that's utterly stupid
14:12:16 <DaSpirit> Well if you were mature, you wouldn't say anything of the like.
14:13:18 <iceTwy> So be it
14:13:28 <iceTwy> but you can't really expect Internet to be mature
14:13:30 <iceTwy> can you
14:14:54 <DaSpirit> Depends where you go on the internet.
14:15:12 <DaSpirit> By the way, what is this IRC channel for?
14:15:24 <iceTwy> Developing in general I believe
14:15:35 <iceTwy> we also debate about some issues
14:15:41 <iceTwy> e.g. privacy on Internet
14:15:41 <iceTwy> etc
14:15:50 <DaSpirit> Debating seems to happen on all channels.
14:16:29 <iceTwy> let's say we like to delve deep into those subjects
14:16:53 <DaSpirit> iceTwy, so what do you do?
14:18:29 <iceTwy> what do you mean?
14:18:32 <iceTwy> myself, or?
14:18:44 <DaSpirit> What do you develop? :p
14:18:50 <iceTwy> Oh
14:19:02 <iceTwy> quote from my site
14:19:03 <iceTwy> "I like coding (hopefully) small useful softwares in my spare time"
14:19:09 <iceTwy> https://github.com/iceTwy
14:19:21 <iceTwy> I'm not a supra amazing proficient developer
14:19:46 <DaSpirit> It seems like everyone creates an IRC bot.
14:20:05 <iceTwy> I just translated it
14:20:10 <iceTwy> per request
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15:37:14 <joepie91> ohai
15:38:14 <joepie91> <DaSpirit>You think they have enough people to read EVERYONE's email?
15:38:21 <joepie91> aeTwist: your assumption is that they need people
15:38:25 <joepie91> that is an incorrect assumption
15:38:43 <aeTwist> I've said earlier that they use bots.
15:38:50 <aeTwist> Which then would make it so that there is no problem at all.
15:39:05 <joepie91> aeTwist: do you understand the consequences of automated systems reading all your email?
15:39:23 <joepie91> it's not like those automated systems just "are"
15:39:25 <joepie91> they are made by people
15:39:27 <joepie91> people that can make mistakes
15:39:31 <aeTwist> Yes, I'm aware. If they find keywords, they will most likely switch to a human reader.
15:39:33 <joepie91> even if you believe in the good faith of everyone
15:39:42 <joepie91> itt is perfectly possible for someone to write an automated system
15:39:46 <joepie91> that wrongly marks you as a suspect
15:39:51 <joepie91> because of a mistake they made
15:39:56 <aeTwist> And that's why human intervention is the next step.
15:40:06 <joepie91> except human intervention will become less and less
15:40:19 <joepie91> as people rely on machines more
15:40:23 <joepie91> machines are cheaper and faster
15:40:38 <joepie91> that they can make mistakes and not recognize it, is considered "acceptable collateral damage"
15:40:43 <aeTwist> But you cannot fully remove humans from the formula.
15:40:53 <joepie91> aeTwist: I don't see why not.
15:41:08 <joepie91> is it a good idea? no
15:41:08 <aeTwist> We need jobs. And we don't have such an advanced AI yet.
15:41:12 <joepie91> can you do it? certainly
15:41:14 <joepie91> lol
15:41:16 <joepie91> twitchyliquid64
15:41:18 <joepie91> are you here?
15:41:22 <joepie91> <aeTwist>We need jobs. And we don't have such an advanced AI yet.
15:41:24 <joepie91> ref ^
15:41:38 <joepie91> and aeTwist, "we need jobs" is a non-argument
15:41:45 <aeTwist> How so?
15:41:58 <joepie91> because profit maximization will rule over amount of jobs
15:42:04 <joepie91> and the jobs system doesn't work in the first place
15:42:07 <joepie91> we've also seen this with production
15:42:25 <joepie91> there's more and more machine work involved, even if it has environmental consequences
15:42:25 <joepie91> because cheaper
15:42:34 <joepie91> and even though it kills off jobs
15:42:54 <joepie91> companies don't choose their strategy to align with what is best for society
15:43:04 <joepie91> they choose their strategy to align with what is best for their bottom line
15:43:21 <joepie91> and increased automation is a significant factor in that
15:43:41 <joepie91> commercially, it makes perfect sense to try and remove every last human from the equation
15:43:44 <joepie91> because humans are expensive
15:43:53 <joepie91> as for the jobs system
15:44:02 <joepie91> there is not enough necessary work to satisfy the available manpower
15:44:08 <joepie91> that is why jobs are being "created"
15:44:21 <joepie91> in a supply-demand system, which is what manpower is, that means creating artificial demand
15:44:22 <joepie91> to avoid oversupply
15:44:29 <aeTwist> Then what do you want us to do?
15:44:33 <joepie91> but since the economy is a zero-sum game, that won't work
15:44:37 <aeTwist> You think that eventually no one will work?
15:44:57 <joepie91> aeTwist: first of all, accept (as society) that expecting everyone to work a full week is madness
15:45:00 <joepie91> and completely impossible
15:45:04 <joepie91> and contrary to what a healthy modern society needs
15:45:13 <joepie91> until that is understood by people, there is not going to be a solution
15:45:53 <aeTwist> You're making the future look very dark.
15:45:57 <aeTwist> Darker than it already is.
15:46:15 <joepie91> aeTwist: if nothing changes, the future _is_ going to be very dark
15:46:26 <aeTwist> And what needs change?
15:46:27 <joepie91> absolutely
15:46:31 <joepie91> many things
15:46:33 <joepie91> the economical system
15:46:35 <joepie91> the work system
15:46:38 <joepie91> the educational system
15:46:41 <joepie91> the governmental system
15:46:50 <joepie91> those are the four essential 'pillars' of society that need change
15:46:52 <joepie91> and they are all related
15:46:55 <aeTwist> How do we suddenly change everything without destroying everything else first?
15:47:00 <joepie91> you cannot change one of them without changing the other 3
15:47:08 <joepie91> destroying is not a solution
15:47:09 <aeTwist> I'm aware.
15:47:14 <joepie91> destroying only causes a void, and the resulting panic
15:47:20 <joepie91> and people will not have time to think things through
15:47:29 <joepie91> and choose suboptimal 'solutions' just to have _something_
15:47:39 <joepie91> sudden change is also not an option
15:47:48 <joepie91> because there is absolutely no way to convince everyone at the same time
15:47:50 <aeTwist> :/
15:47:51 <joepie91> given bias
15:47:57 <joepie91> and doing it by force would be defeating the point
15:48:05 <aeTwist> We need better leaders.
15:48:06 <joepie91> the only remaining option being gradual change and understanding
15:48:14 <joepie91> why do you rely on 'leaders'?
15:48:20 <joepie91> can you not think about things for yourself?
15:48:24 <joepie91> do you not have a brain?
15:48:34 <aeTwist> I can think of it, but I cannot make a change by myself.
15:48:43 <joepie91> and who do you think -can- make a change?
15:49:00 <aeTwist> No one...
15:49:05 <joepie91> indeed
15:49:08 <joepie91> no one person can make a change
15:49:13 <joepie91> not even a 'leader'
15:49:20 <joepie91> there is no way to make a change unless understanding is created
15:49:24 <joepie91> that is a gradual process
15:49:24 <aeTwist> You want the majority to rise up?
15:49:30 <joepie91> people have to understand how things work
15:49:31 <joepie91> why things work
15:49:33 <joepie91> why they don't
15:49:37 <joepie91> what the problems are
15:49:39 <joepie91> and how to solve them
15:49:45 <joepie91> every single person should have at least a basic understanding of thezse
15:49:47 <joepie91> these *
15:49:58 <joepie91> a 'majority rising up' just amounts to force
15:50:04 <joepie91> it's just a group of people exerting that force
15:50:07 <joepie91> rather than a single person
15:50:14 <joepie91> force is counterproductive
15:50:24 <aeTwist> joepie91, you should write a book.
15:50:25 <joepie91> and probably not desirable
15:50:33 <joepie91> aeTwist: I am in the process of doing so... sort of
15:50:40 <aeTwist> Haha.
15:50:46 <joepie91> not quite in book form
15:50:48 <joepie91> but certainly writing
15:50:54 <joepie91> actually my blog is a start on that
15:50:58 <joepie91> http://joepie91.wordpress.com/
15:51:34 <joepie91> warning: large blobs of text
15:51:35 <aeTwist> "Windows works fine"
15:51:37 <aeTwist> lol
15:51:45 <aeTwist> Linux works terribly based on my experience.
15:51:46 <joepie91> I recommend you grab some 15 minutes to read articles in silence
15:51:53 <joepie91> skimming over them will not work
15:52:08 <aeTwist> I am skimming because I want to excersize in a few minutes.
15:52:15 <joepie91> aeTwist: then don't skim it at all
15:52:18 <joepie91> bookmark it
15:52:19 <joepie91> and return to read it later
15:52:26 <joepie91> when you do have time
15:52:28 <aeTwist> Okay.
15:52:48 <joepie91> there is one article about unemployment that you'll probably find particularly interesting
15:52:50 <aeTwist> joepie91, by the way, I googled your name and found this: http://anonymousjoepie91.wordpress.com/
15:52:53 <aeTwist> What is it? lol
15:53:00 <joepie91> a troll blog
15:53:11 <joepie91> a very good troll that decided to use wordpress to advance his trolling purposes
15:53:21 <aeTwist> Does he dislike you?
15:54:06 <joepie91> unsure
15:54:21 <aeTwist> Well, I'm impressed by your popularity.
15:54:37 * joepie91 refers to http://cryto.net/~joepie91, paragraph below the first list
15:55:50 <aeTwist> Okay. Well, I'm going for now. See ya later. I'm going to hang out more often here.
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15:57:45 <joepie91> "Turkish security researcher claims to have found flaw in system, which has been offline since Thursday as company 'rebuilds and strengthens' security around databases"
15:58:06 <joepie91> why is it that the grammar in that sentence is reminiscient of the way most Turkish people speak in English (on the internet)
15:58:35 <MK_FG> About dev.apple?
15:59:07 <joepie91> I guess, it's about Apple
15:59:09 <joepie91> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jul/22/apple-developer-site-hacked
15:59:23 <MK_FG> Yep
16:00:41 <MK_FG> Funny story, I now have a gig in mobile gamedev (writing server for game, scaling it, monitoring, etc) and we had beta testing scheduled on today-tomorrow-etc...
16:00:55 <MK_FG> And - bam - suddenly apple goes down ;)
16:01:12 <joepie91> heh
16:02:46 <MK_FG> iPhone client guys have to reg testers' accounts there and that dev site doesn't work for 4 days now
16:03:19 <MK_FG> (or do something like that, not sure how that weird testing works)
16:03:51 <joepie91> "testing, how does it work"
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16:08:21 <MK_FG> It's been planned as 1 fixed hour for 3 days, and there should be significant amount of testers in that hour, so not sure if it's some company doing the testing or some apple-provided and paid group of ppl
16:08:42 <MK_FG> Unlkely to be random contractors, hired individually
16:09:42 <joepie91> ... how does my mother manage to e-mail me the moment I walk into my room
16:11:44 <MK_FG> Coincidences all around
16:13:43 <MK_FG> http://bpaste.net/raw/116346/ - russian great firewall - we block wordpress.com, but not all IPs (for $reasons?) ;)
16:14:41 <zxcvbnm> o boy
16:14:46 <zxcvbnm> :P
16:15:02 <joepie91> you're leaking!
16:15:16 <zxcvbnm> where? oh god get it off get it off!
16:15:18 * zxcvbnm scrambles
16:15:24 <MK_FG> ...leaking your shit all over teh internets
16:16:51 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: it was an [off]-leak
16:22:27 <zxcvbnm> joepie91: I know, I will strive to be better
16:22:41 <zxcvbnm> :P
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16:25:32 <iceTwy> oh eh
16:25:35 <iceTwy> while we're talking about email
16:25:47 <iceTwy> i'm writing a PGP guide for dummies
16:25:59 <iceTwy> I've stopped cause i can't focus
16:26:07 <iceTwy> sweating too much to work
16:34:10 <why_slap_option> hi
16:37:30 <zxcvbnm> herro
16:38:30 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 1 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Rename "Eggplant Parm Color Scheme" to "Color Scheme - Eggplant Parm"Closes #1369' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/5c7def4490...83646e95be)
16:43:20 <joepie91> jesus christ
16:43:28 <joepie91> was reading a Dutch article on a fight at a swimming pool
16:43:35 <joepie91> and made the mistake of scrolling towards the comments
16:43:41 <joepie91> it's like I'm reading fucking stormfront
16:43:55 <joepie91> never before have I seen so much racism in the comments section of a _news_ site
16:44:06 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Added https://github.com/afterdesign/jshintify to plugins list', '02Merge pull request #1543 from afterdesign/masterAdded https://github.com/afterdesign/jshintify to plugins list' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/83646e95be...52531de64a)
16:46:38 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 1 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Move egg entry to "renamed_packages"Really closes #1369.' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/52531de64a...df17ea097c)
16:50:14 <joepie91> http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/03/tropicana-an-abandoned-tropical-indoor-swimming-pool/
16:50:15 <joepie91> sadface
16:52:25 <joepie91> ...
16:52:43 <joepie91> De gebruikersnaam is de geboortedatum van de leerling, ddmmjjjj met, in hoofdletters 3 1e letters van de achternaam + 3 1e letters van de voornaam. ( alleen de eerste van de voornaam in hoofdletters ) Het wachtwoord is de achternaam in hoofdletters.
16:52:50 <joepie91> this is from the site of a Dutch swimming pool
16:52:51 <joepie91> let me translate
16:53:54 <joepie91> "The username is the birth date of the pupil, ddmmyyyy, followed by the first 3 letters of the last name capitalized, followed by the first 3 letters of the first name with the first character capitalized. The password is the last name capitalized."
16:53:57 <joepie91> because that isn't insecure or anything
16:54:10 <zxcvbnm> lol
16:54:16 <zxcvbnm> where are you getting that from
16:54:20 <joepie91> http://www.destok.nl/
16:54:22 <zxcvbnm> local school?
16:54:23 <joepie91> left sidebar
16:54:25 <joepie91> no
16:54:28 <joepie91> swimming pool
16:54:30 <joepie91> for swimming lessons
16:54:35 <joepie91> so you can "track progress"
16:54:44 <joepie91> this just screams security through obscurity
16:54:48 <joepie91> except they fail at even that
16:54:56 <zxcvbnm> security through insecurity ?
16:54:56 <zxcvbnm> :P
16:55:04 <joepie91> that's what it effectively comes down to, yes
16:55:25 <zxcvbnm> p.s. that abandoned tropical indoor swimming pool is pretty cool
16:56:07 <joepie91> it was cooler when it was open
16:56:16 <joepie91> their wild water slide was fucking awesome!
16:56:40 <zxcvbnm> yeah, I imagine it was cool. Although, the dystopic/apocalyptic feel from those pictures is cool too
16:57:20 <lady-3jane> agh boxes boxes everywhere boxes
16:57:45 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: meh
16:57:50 <joepie91> they are pretty poor pics ttbh
16:57:51 <joepie91> tbh *
16:57:56 <joepie91> could've been so much better
16:59:18 <zxcvbnm> well, I can imagine a sweet zombie fight in there
17:01:04 <lady-3jane> lol
17:01:11 <lady-3jane> moving is more like actually cleaning my room
17:22:35 <why_slap_option> brb shower
17:28:11 <joepie91> oh, of course
17:28:14 <joepie91> it's 35 degrees celsius
17:28:17 <joepie91> trains break
17:28:28 <joepie91> train company offers people compensation in the form of free... coffee and tea.
17:28:58 <joepie91> because that's exactly what you need then! more hot drinks!
17:29:09 <joepie91> herp derp.
17:29:17 <MK_FG> Hahah
17:29:48 <MK_FG> Why do trains break in 35C though?
17:30:18 <MK_FG> Or you mean they break in general, unrelated to heat?
17:30:57 <joepie91> MK_FG: combination of a snapped cable, and heat-related issues
17:31:02 <joepie91> the signalling breaks here when it's either cold or hott
17:31:05 <joepie91> hot *
17:36:40 <lady-3jane> hmm
17:36:45 <lady-3jane> twitter reset my password for me
17:37:03 <lady-3jane> so... why do they think my account was breached
17:38:34 <lady-3jane> Twitter believes that your account may have been compromised by a website or service not associated with Twitter. We've reset your password to prevent others from accessing your account.
17:39:38 <lady-3jane> why the fuck would you try to compromise my account, I have enough third party services hooked in to power a small african nation
17:40:30 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) maybe it's the feds trying to see if we were dming sexy pics to eachother
17:41:00 <joepie91> ha
17:41:16 <lady-3jane> I really have no doubt I'm on somebody's list
17:41:31 <lady-3jane> but why twitter :|
17:44:39 <why_slap_option> im back
17:45:13 <lady-3jane> 34 apps, nice!
17:50:59 DaSpirit (DaSpirit@cryto-27A17A57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #crytocc
17:51:24 <DaSpirit> Is it worth it to optimize for minimal memory usage these days?
17:51:56 <why_slap_option> hiya
17:52:05 <DaSpirit> Hi.
17:55:59 <lady-3jane> Depends on how much you're expecting to use
17:56:45 <why_slap_option> hey i need help from a dev
17:56:55 <DaSpirit> Imagine a tree view with items. What if I use an extra byte for each item? Trees can get large.
17:57:07 <joepie91> DaSpirit: what are you working on?
17:57:08 <DaSpirit> Well, not an extra byte, more an extra pointer.
17:57:21 <why_slap_option> joepie91, i need you
17:57:21 <DaSpirit> joepie91, an IDE for ENIGMA and GameMaker.
17:58:12 <joepie91> why_slap_option: mm?
17:58:15 <joepie91> DaSpirit: language?
17:58:26 <DaSpirit> joepie91, C++ using the Qt framework.
17:58:38 <joepie91> what would said extra byte consist of?
17:59:13 <DaSpirit> The location of the file serializer, instead of going through other objects to find it.
17:59:22 <DaSpirit> The pointer to the serializer.
17:59:25 <why_slap_option> i meed help with an error log that is making my pc fucked up
17:59:49 <why_slap_option> last time it was 136 GB
18:00:08 <joepie91> why_slap_option: filename?
18:00:16 <joepie91> DaSpirit: how often are you going to use this data
18:00:22 <why_slap_option> .xsession-errors
18:00:28 <joepie91> why_slap_option: you can safely delete that on a cronjob
18:00:35 <joepie91> or tail it
18:00:36 <DaSpirit> joepie91, every time I want to open a file.
18:00:44 <joepie91> DaSpirit: how often is that in normal usage?
18:00:53 <DaSpirit> joepie91, the user decides. It
18:00:58 <DaSpirit> 's an IDE.
18:01:05 <DaSpirit> Whenever they open a script or something.
18:01:07 <why_slap_option> joe i want to do a notification script
18:01:08 <joepie91> obviously, but make an estimate
18:03:27 <DaSpirit> I'll do what my gut tells me and add those extra bytes.
18:04:01 <why_slap_option> can you help me do it i have no computer skills
18:05:39 <lady-3jane> an extra byte
18:05:52 <lady-3jane> don't be concerned about it.
18:06:08 <DaSpirit> An extra pointer actually, which would be 8 bytes on a 64 bit.
18:06:10 <lady-3jane> If you're talking half a k for each new branch? yeah, be fucking concerned
18:06:22 <lady-3jane> but, even 8
18:06:44 <lady-3jane> can you test it both ways?
18:06:52 <lady-3jane> just to see for yourself how big a difference it makes
18:07:12 <DaSpirit> lady-3jane, what do you program in?
18:07:23 <lady-3jane> I don't program in anything
18:07:30 <lady-3jane> not officially
18:07:37 <lady-3jane> I hate that shit, but that doesn't mean I don't code :P
18:08:27 <lady-3jane> did x86asm, c, and java in school. ruby and perl back in hs, python more recently
18:08:56 <DaSpirit> You had computer science in hs?
18:09:05 <lady-3jane> No, I just wrote code
18:09:10 <lady-3jane> but yes, we did
18:09:14 <lady-3jane> I didn't take the classes
18:09:56 <lady-3jane> they didn't teach anything worthwhile in the hs classes, and ruby/perl were really easy to get into
18:10:38 <lady-3jane> anyway, I don't even think about ram usage except when I'm in asm
18:10:49 <DaSpirit> Well, the reason why I want that extra pointer is because I'm currently doing resource->project->project->serializer->read(widget, r)
18:10:55 <joepie91> <why_slap_option>can you help me do it i have no computer skills
18:11:00 <joepie91> I have too much stuff on my mind
18:11:03 <lady-3jane> and a basic find-how-much-data-I'm-actually-using-and-free()-the-rest in C
18:11:07 <joepie91> I recommend learning enough skills to write it yourself
18:11:53 <DaSpirit> I should look for C++ channels.
18:11:59 <lady-3jane> how many objects are you expecting to have in a tree?
18:12:13 <DaSpirit> Worst case, most likely 100.
18:12:17 <DaSpirit> But it's up to the user.
18:12:19 <lady-3jane> so, at least 1000
18:12:25 <lady-3jane> which is... 8k.
18:12:30 <lady-3jane> you'll live :)
18:14:22 <lady-3jane> My discrete structures teacher said something that stuck with me: It's nothing to spend 20grand getting more servers so you have enough resources to do a problem compared to the cost of having a coding teach choose a new algorithm to do it with less resource usage
18:14:41 <lady-3jane> wat
18:14:51 <lady-3jane> cost of having a coder choose a new algorithm to do it with less resource usage
18:14:54 <lady-3jane> there we go
18:15:02 <lady-3jane> lost myself halfway through a sentence lol
18:15:09 <DaSpirit> Haha okay.
18:16:01 <lady-3jane> cause it's not just the one coder ever, and you have to double what you pay her because she could have been working on more important things like shippable features
18:16:22 <joepie91> lady-3jane: only applies to hosted services
18:16:27 <lady-3jane> no
18:16:36 <lady-3jane> he was speaking about internal cia development
18:16:36 <lady-3jane> :P
18:16:40 <joepie91> and internal stuff
18:16:41 <joepie91> lol
18:16:58 <lady-3jane> any large corp will be in the same position
18:17:07 <lady-3jane> even if it's a shippable app
18:17:31 <lady-3jane> (which is why you hire more experienced people because they choose the better algo the first time)
18:19:53 <lady-3jane> but anyway, 8k won't kill you
18:20:04 <lady-3jane> if you're expecting desktop pc's anyway
18:20:11 <lady-3jane> embedded shit? 8k will annihilate you
18:20:41 <DaSpirit> Gotta go now, bye!
18:20:46 DaSpirit has quit (User quit: I have to go, bye!)
18:21:31 * lady-3jane thinks of linksys routers which have 2mb of ram
18:24:38 <joepie91> OVH got pwnt
18:25:07 <joepie91> http://status.ovh.co.uk/?do=details&id=5070
18:28:46 <lady-3jane> I like it
18:28:51 <lady-3jane> 3 pivots
18:29:14 <lady-3jane> and their response is good too
18:29:25 <lady-3jane> except they never mention if the person got anything
18:32:47 <joepie91> The European customer database includes personal customer information such as: surname, first name, nic, address, city, country, telephone, fax and encrypted password.
18:32:48 <joepie91> The encryption password is "Salted" and based on SHA-512, to avoid brute-force attacks. It takes a lot of technical means to find the word password clearly. But it is possible. This is why we advise you to change the password for your user name. An email will be sent today to all our customers explaining these security measures and inviting them to change their password.
18:32:48 <joepie91> No credit card information is stored at OVH. Credit card information was not viewed or copied.
18:32:48 <joepie91> As for the server delivery system in Canada, the risk we have identified is that if the client had not withdrawn our SSH key from the server, the hacker could connect from your system and retrieve the password stored in the .p file.
18:33:01 <joepie91> prefaced with
18:33:01 <joepie91> After our internal investigation, we assume that the hacker exploited the access to achieve two objectives:
18:33:08 <joepie91> pretty clear I'd say :P
18:39:17 <lady-3jane> didn't see any of that
18:40:13 <lady-3jane> oh their findings
18:40:23 <lady-3jane> yeah I never read that because it's generally worthless
18:57:05 <joepie91> nah, it's quite detailed here
18:57:20 <joepie91> aside from their usual spotty English, can't really say I have any particular issue with their disclosure
18:57:43 <IR601> fuck sake will everything stop getting shot
18:59:34 <joepie91> IR601: hmm?
19:00:14 <IR601> i got a couple of domains with ovh :S
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19:00:44 <IR601> hows your thing going joep
19:01:20 <joepie91> which thing?
19:01:27 <joepie91> I have many things
19:01:30 <IR601> lol
19:01:35 <IR601> that thing
19:01:47 <IR601> with the raidings
19:01:54 <IR601> and the shady us agents
19:02:03 <joepie91> US agent*
19:02:12 <joepie91> at least, during the raid it was singular
19:02:14 <IR601> theres always more than one
19:02:20 <IR601> agent smiths
19:02:23 <joepie91> ... no, not really
19:02:43 <joepie91> anyway, went to answer some questions about it today, can't really give any details as of yet
19:03:25 <IR601> u badass
19:13:54 <MK_FG> Ugh
19:14:58 <MK_FG> I'm going to need two (I think) new vps'es in a week or so, and it's impossible to find anything cheap that wasn't hacked on a regular basis, it seems ;)
19:16:19 <MK_FG> What'd be good option for relatively weak vps for vpn and darknet tunnels?
19:28:00 * lady-3jane dunno
19:28:14 <lady-3jane> I'd offer our shit, but I'mma wait till we're in a datacenter fully
19:29:08 <lady-3jane> somebody has contracted us to host their shit top to bottom, and they're a 400k hits every 6 hours sorta site
19:29:36 <lady-3jane> which wouldn't be that much if it wasn't on fucking wordpress
19:29:50 <lady-3jane> with a cart!?
19:29:53 * lady-3jane dies
19:30:07 <lady-3jane> I won't touch that shit with a 10 foot pole
19:30:07 <lady-3jane> :D
19:30:29 <lady-3jane> but it's cool, it'll finance a fully datacenter'd hosting company
19:30:44 <lady-3jane> which is going to be sexy as hell
19:43:16 <iceTwy> hola
19:43:17 <iceTwy> what's up
19:56:11 <lady-3jane> packing
19:57:01 <lady-3jane> which is to say, taking all my stuff that was already in boxes and throwing a bunch of it away and putting what's left into new boxes
19:57:19 <lady-3jane> because I never unpack, once things are in boxes
19:57:39 <lady-3jane> NP: [The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Voodoo Child (Slight Return)] [Electric Ladyland] [918kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
20:21:39 monod (monoD@cryto-74D7BC2B.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #crytocc
20:21:48 <monod> hi-guys, read the loggyz
20:22:31 <monod> how is that MK has OP if no nicksev availble? :D anyway, nice conversations today
20:33:04 <lady-3jane> he never disconnected
20:33:05 <lady-3jane> :>
20:35:12 <lady-3jane> so a friend of mine named her cat "Just the Tip"
20:35:54 <MK_FG> monod, I've no idea where I got it from!
20:36:19 <monod> :P
20:36:51 <lady-3jane> mmmm. so sexy.
20:36:52 <lady-3jane> NP: [CSS - Let's Make Love And Listen To Death From Above (Spank Rock Remix)] [FABRICLIVE.33] [925kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
20:36:55 <monod> Just Tea Tip
20:37:34 <lady-3jane> let's make love. let's make love and listen death from above.
20:39:13 <monod> how does MK never disconnect? I mean: WHAT keeps the connection while he's afk? or he just leaves the pc on which the client is on and only has to connect to that already IRC-conneted pc via ssh and similia?
20:39:42 <lady-3jane> bouncer probably
20:39:46 <lady-3jane> or a server somewheres
20:41:41 <MK_FG> Yeah, I have znc on home miniITX server box
20:42:02 <MK_FG> It disconnects when my internets go down
20:42:15 <MK_FG> But it's not that often - maybe few times a month
20:42:55 <monod> so: an always-on pc that's always connected to internet, in particular to IRC?
20:43:13 <MK_FG> Yep
20:43:50 <monod> I found a spare old computer out in the trash and I'm now trying configuring it for experiments :) I wanted to use it as a little, weak server :) only experimental though
20:44:09 <lady-3jane> do you pay for electricity?
20:44:26 <monod> I was going to say the same
20:44:28 <lady-3jane> (or is your power cheap?)
20:44:46 <lady-3jane> my power here is ridiculously expensive :)
20:44:48 <monod> or is it low power consumpting
20:44:59 <monod> so :) should be :(
20:45:03 <monod> :3
20:45:11 <lady-3jane> I know, I'm hoping when I move it's better
20:45:30 <lady-3jane> because ugh, third tier power is at 450kwh
20:45:37 <lady-3jane> goes to .33 per kwh
20:45:39 <lady-3jane> eek
20:46:03 <lady-3jane> that's a really quick way to burn some monies
20:46:04 <lady-3jane> :(
20:46:31 <MK_FG> Really old things like Pentium-1 grade are probably not worth the power costs, compared to el-cheapo arms
20:46:47 <lady-3jane> yes
20:47:03 <lady-3jane> which is why my dream gaming computer has the same power footprint as my current pc
20:47:04 <lady-3jane> :3
20:47:07 <monod> el-cheapo arms?
20:47:14 <lady-3jane> cheap arm processors
20:47:16 <MK_FG> Like Raspberry Pi thing
20:47:19 <lady-3jane> ^
20:47:24 <MK_FG> Or routers with openwrt
20:47:32 <MK_FG> Mikrotik boxes
20:47:36 <lady-3jane> same thing :D
20:47:38 <MK_FG> Latter ones are actually mips ;)
20:49:20 <lady-3jane> NP: [Mediks - Blown Away] [Outbreak EP] [1076kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
20:49:46 <lady-3jane> I love how I open a box and it's an in-box brand new linksys router
20:49:57 <lady-3jane> wrt54gs v8
20:50:04 <lady-3jane> which means fuckin vxworks :|
20:50:22 <lady-3jane> but there are ddwrt builds for that now
20:50:23 <lady-3jane> :>
20:51:27 <iceTwy> iunno if I have a ddwrt build for my router
20:51:30 <iceTwy> it's pretty recent
20:51:33 <iceTwy> but the interface is horrible
20:51:34 <iceTwy> like
20:51:37 <iceTwy> the website interface
20:52:02 <monod> oh iceTwy, good to read you were writing a GPG guide
20:52:11 <monod> read it on the logs
20:52:12 <iceTwy> eh? you read it?
20:52:22 <iceTwy> well the first part is already on my blog ;)
20:52:23 <monod> didn't see any link
20:52:26 <monod> alright
20:52:28 <iceTwy> blog.icetwy.re
20:52:32 <iceTwy> ;)
20:53:05 <lady-3jane> oh god, I have to clean my computer parts box
20:53:10 <lady-3jane> uh-oh
20:53:31 <monod> I had Enigmail working with IceDove on Debian though, which is a user wizard for such things, veeeeery easy. But with those kind of things, the risk is to not understand what the wizard is doing :)
20:54:08 <iceTwy> Yeah
20:54:16 <iceTwy> I'll talk about how to use it on some email clients
20:54:21 <iceTwy> I can't go through all of them obviously but
20:54:28 <iceTwy> I'll talk about Thunderbird
20:54:45 <monod> oh, I think you don't even have to bother makign a guide for Enigmail :) IF I GOT IT TO WORK
20:54:52 <monod> then anyone else :)
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21:43:18 <AnonO_o> hai
21:45:59 <iceTwy> hai
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22:47:29 <botpie91> 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Added Zissou color schemes', '02Merge pull request #1551 from idleberg/masterAdded Zissou color schemes' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/df17ea097c...48ebac75f8)
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23:29:15 <joepie91> iceTwy
23:29:20 <joepie91> jabber etc
23:29:21 <joepie91> also hai
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23:57:28 <iceTwy> hai
23:57:32 <iceTwy> well i'm busy joepie91
23:57:33 <iceTwy> but
23:57:33 <iceTwy> ya