Cryto! 27 May 2013
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09:51:37 <twitchyliquid64> joepie91: ok
09:51:56 <twitchyliquid64> What I mean is that is it a great way to push realtime information
09:52:15 <twitchyliquid64> that has always been a need for me; no protocol has really been able to do that
09:52:45 <twitchyliquid64> IRC sortof, but XMPP is secured, distributed, and better, albeit complex
09:53:24 <twitchyliquid64> Also, I dont think programmers will have a problem using it, as long as they are given XMPP libraries
09:53:46 <twitchyliquid64> Implementing XMPP wouldnt be something you did for fun, unlike IRC though
09:54:09 <twitchyliquid64> Aside: Just installed ejabberd on my server, and got a client working. How do I test?
10:33:40 <MK_FG> twitchyliquid64, Talk to duckduckgo bot - im@ddg.gg
10:34:17 <MK_FG> (or some maybe human, too ;))
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11:34:11 <mama> hi
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12:15:57 <twitchyliquid64> MK_FG: works :D
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13:18:50 <monod> hi good guys
13:19:21 <monod> holy good news: I'm starting considering buying a new PAIR of hard disks :)
13:20:15 <monod> and now I'm looking for things I can backup on dvds.. if I need to compress data, is it useful to group things? is it likely to reduce entropy and to improve compression?
13:21:27 <monod> i.e.: should I consider forming the biggest blocks of archivable data possible and trying zipping it with a powerful compress tool like bzip2, which spends more time and memory but tries to produce better compression ratios?
13:30:49 <twitchyliquid64> depends
13:31:03 <twitchyliquid64> how big is the data and how much processing power/time do you have available?
13:38:23 <monod> or in other words, do I have better chance of getting a GOOD compression if I group things up? the data is this big: (checking...)
13:38:35 <monod> 29.8GB
13:38:42 <twitchyliquid64> how much of the data is raw text and how much is video?
13:40:00 <monod> (checking)
13:40:29 <monod> video: 1GB more or less. ISO file (raw cd then): 28GB more or less
13:40:35 <monod> and that's all
13:40:39 <twitchyliquid64> right
13:40:48 <twitchyliquid64> the ISOs you will probs get good compression
13:40:53 <monod> YEAAAAAH
13:40:56 <twitchyliquid64> text will get good compression
13:40:58 <monod> ..are you sure?
13:41:01 <twitchyliquid64> but video will get very little
13:41:10 <twitchyliquid64> I am pretty sure
13:41:31 <twitchyliquid64> alot of ISOs tend to have a large series of identical null bytes
13:41:34 <twitchyliquid64> or patterns
13:41:39 <twitchyliquid64> which compress well
13:41:50 <monod> oh yeah, video is like that because they're likely to already being compressed?
13:41:56 <twitchyliquid64> exactly
13:42:01 <monod> sounds a good scenario though :)
13:42:08 <monod> though??
13:42:10 <monod> wrong word
13:42:12 <monod> sorry xD
13:42:17 <monod> then*
13:42:24 <twitchyliquid64> yepppp :D
13:42:27 <twitchyliquid64> one thing worth trying
13:42:36 <twitchyliquid64> is just to zip a small sample of the data
13:42:41 <twitchyliquid64> to see if its worth it
13:42:45 <monod> oh
13:42:48 <monod> nice
13:42:49 <twitchyliquid64> before you spend days on the full set
13:42:54 <monod> ok
13:43:06 <monod> so I'll be fine zipping e.g. 1 dvd of about 4GB?
13:43:14 <twitchyliquid64> who knows
13:43:19 <twitchyliquid64> never zipped something that big
13:43:24 <monod> alright
13:43:32 <monod> I'll make some tests then
13:43:55 <monod> and what compression do you suggest? I've read bzip2 is very nice regarding the final compression ratio
13:44:03 <monod> (at memory & tiem costs)
13:44:13 <twitchyliquid64> doesnt really matter
13:44:20 <twitchyliquid64> ISOs tend to have repeating patterns
13:44:25 <monod> oh ok
13:44:28 <twitchyliquid64> all compressions can do tht really
13:44:34 <twitchyliquid64> just don use something completely shit
13:44:46 <twitchyliquid64> tl;dr: bzip2 will do :)
13:45:14 <monod> will do? shit or good? :D
13:45:30 <twitchyliquid64> good
13:45:37 <monod> ok
13:46:15 <monod> but can I pick a faster one up since ISOs are supposed to compress well, right? so, I'm trying to optimize performances :D Going to check the small sample of data anyway
13:46:28 <twitchyliquid64> I have no idea
13:46:44 <twitchyliquid64> you would have to do alot of analysis as to which one is best suited
13:46:53 <twitchyliquid64> I reckon just pick a decent fast one and run with it :D
13:47:22 <monod> bad news: right clicking an ISO file makes appear a menu in which there's no "compress" entry, yet is there an "extract" entry o_O
13:47:37 <twitchyliquid64> lol
13:47:42 <twitchyliquid64> use command line tools :D
13:47:48 <monod> ok
13:49:12 <monod> do I have to TAR before GZIP/BZIP/7ZIP-ing?
13:49:19 <twitchyliquid64> no
13:49:24 <monod> I ask because I've always seen .tar.bz
13:49:25 <monod> oh ok
13:49:29 <monod> thanks
13:49:31 <twitchyliquid64> tar combines files without compressions
13:50:32 <monod> for those programs that do not offer file managing but only do the compression
13:50:41 <monod> I've have read something like this yesterday
14:03:32 <monod> the sample data test yielded a very bad compression ratio for a 2GB ISO file: 0.05%, or: from 2GB to 1.9GB :D
14:03:53 <monod> *0.5%
14:05:16 <monod> quite unlucky
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14:39:51 <monod> but! maybe I've picked the wrong sample! Cause now I'm 7zip-ing another sample folder and has shrinked to 1.2GB from 6GB, while the process is at 60-70%, more or less! WHOA!
14:40:01 <monod> hope it's not gonna explode right now xD
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14:58:14 <MK_FG> xz is usually used in place of bz2 these days
14:59:31 <MK_FG> It's slower to create than to unpack, so is a good match for distribution packages where you pack once for zillion people to unpack
15:00:02 <MK_FG> So maybe not that good in case of backups ;)
15:11:17 <monod> because they would take longer than usual?
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15:12:32 <MK_FG> Longer to create, yes
15:12:38 <monod> GOD EXISTS!!!!!Ù
15:12:50 <MK_FG> You might never have to read these, after all ;)
15:12:57 <monod> 6.2 to 2.0
15:12:59 <monod> with 7zip
15:13:09 <monod> which these?
15:13:16 <MK_FG> Backups, I mean
15:13:23 <monod> oh
15:13:38 <monod> righta, who knows
15:13:50 <MK_FG> "The Vatican has just announced that, despite what Pope Francis said in his homily earlier this week, atheists are still going to hell." :P
15:14:07 <monod> and now the semifinal between 7zip and xz :D
15:14:10 <monod> HAHAHA
15:14:29 <monod> never heard before! I think it's just as simple as fantastic xD
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15:18:21 <lady-3jane> monod:) :D
15:18:26 <lady-3jane> mooooorniiiiing :D
15:19:05 <monod> moooooooooooooorning ladyz
15:19:24 <lady-3jane> :)
15:20:59 <monod> I like reading that an "extreme" param exists in xz's possible ones. I don't if I would be happy as well using it though xD
15:22:55 <lady-3jane> haha
15:23:08 <lady-3jane> yeah that might just compress your computer into barely working anymore :"D
15:25:25 <monod> oh god
15:25:29 <monod> god doesn't exist.
15:25:42 <monod> the file was actually split into 3 2.0GB files
15:25:49 <monod> and there you have your fresh 0% compression
15:25:54 <monod> lawl
15:26:07 <monod> need for more tests!
15:26:36 <lady-3jane> :3
15:26:45 <lady-3jane> MON DIEU >:D
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16:42:54 <lady-3jane> NP: [Tinariwen - Dualahila ar Tesninam] [Amassakoul] [786kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
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16:58:28 <iceTwy> ohai
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18:35:04 <monod> hello there guys
18:35:31 <monod> xz compression has the same result of 7zip compression, on my sample iso files, just for you to know when you'll backup your folders
18:36:47 <MK_FG> I think they're based off the same LZMA algorithm
18:36:56 <MK_FG> (both 7z and xz, that is)
18:38:35 <monod> oohh, you may be right! I did not check out!
18:39:00 <monod> have you read about PAQ compression algorithm? the one implemented in KGB archiver
18:39:27 <monod> I now know why it compress like no one else, but also spend 200+ hours doing so: it's a probabilistic algorithm!
18:40:16 <monod> it's available as a command line for linux and as a GUI-enabled program for windows
18:40:31 <MK_FG> Didn't look into it, just heard the name in the context of "damn good but too heavy", I think
18:40:50 <monod> and you heard right
18:41:14 <monod> these are algorithms there are kind of "asymmetric" if you look at compression/decompression times
18:41:36 <monod> and lzma, together with another one I can't remember atm, is damn good but heavy
18:41:43 <monod> oh, of course! it was bzip2 the other one
18:42:00 <monod> then, you have winzip/winrar/others which use DEFLATE or Deflate
18:42:02 <MK_FG> Heh, yeah, I think "xz -1" beats bzip2
18:42:10 <MK_FG> (like, faster and better)
18:42:12 <monod> ahhaah really?
18:42:23 <monod> xD
18:42:43 <MK_FG> Not sure, actually
18:42:47 <monod> :P
18:45:04 <MK_FG> xz also can add checksum (e.g. sha256) to the result somehow, I wonder how that works
18:45:38 <MK_FG> Naive way would be to just append one to the end, in which case it might be not much useful
18:46:12 <MK_FG> (e.g. if you do xzless and don't read till the end to see the error)
18:46:40 <MK_FG> So I wonder if they do something clever, like inserting these checksums after every N bytes or something
18:48:59 <joepie91> <twitchyliquid64>Implementing XMPP wouldnt be something you did for fun, unlike IRC though
18:49:02 <joepie91> this is one of the primary issues
18:49:14 <joepie91> <twitchyliquid64>Aside: Just installed ejabberd on my server, and got a client working. How do I test?
18:49:20 <joepie91> by uninstalling ejabberd, installing prosody
18:49:23 <joepie91> and setting it up
18:49:26 <joepie91> :P
18:49:46 <monod> hmm, "Like 'less', but operate on the uncompressed contents of xz compressed FILEs"... Oooohh, maybe I now see what you mean! inserting it every N bits allows you to verify block-by-block instead of reading it all?
18:49:51 <monod> MK_FG, ^
18:51:03 <MK_FG> Yes, you don't always read to the end of xz stream
18:51:48 <MK_FG> "tar xf" might also potentially unpack necessary stuff and stop there, but I don't think it actually does that, because same path can be packed again
18:52:18 <MK_FG> xzgrep -q might be another example ;)
18:53:09 <monod> I don't get this last one
18:53:36 <MK_FG> "grep -q" does "find first occurence and exit right there"
18:53:52 <MK_FG> So it won't get to the checksum, if it's at the end
18:54:44 <monod> oh, I was just searching the params and I've realized they're the same as grep's, so I would have typed man grep instead of man xzgrep
18:54:50 <monod> now I see
18:55:11 <MK_FG> zgrep bzgrep xzgrep lzgrep... ;)
18:56:00 <monod> yeah, those I saw in man xzgrep
18:56:34 <monod> I'm definitely gonna give kgb archiver a try, with some normal compression ratios
18:56:53 <monod> hope it can serve better :3
19:00:14 <MK_FG> Why are you using dvds anyway?
19:00:28 <MK_FG> hdds seem to be simplier, much cheaper and last longer, no?
19:04:16 <monod> the last part disagrees with my current experiences... :P away from joking, yeah, the reason is that before buying a new hard disk (but I'm planning to get some atm), I want to see WHY I am going out of space.. The reason is a mixture between files and chaos
19:04:39 <monod> so I'm starting planning a way of removing chaos (actually, this is the succeeding part! :D)
19:05:11 <MK_FG> Hm, you mean "last longer" part, right?
19:05:22 <monod> exactly :D
19:05:45 <monod> or do you know dvds lose their data in X years? :O
19:06:18 <monod> because, what my experience has been is that hdd eventually broke
19:06:21 <monod> that's the point.
19:06:25 <MK_FG> Yep, that's what I heard about dvds
19:06:29 <monod> we've lost 3 external hdd
19:06:41 <monod> holy...
19:06:43 <MK_FG> And even worse, their readers are utter shit
19:06:45 <monod> gonna check thatù
19:06:49 <monod> oh ueah
19:06:51 <monod> yeah*
19:06:54 <MK_FG> And break way more often
19:07:09 <MK_FG> And you might not be able to find one in a few years ;)
19:07:11 <monod> that's true, but atm I have no problems with readers
19:07:17 <monod> that's also true
19:07:25 <MK_FG> "we've lost 3 external hdd" to fire? ;)
19:07:38 <MK_FG> I mean, just don't use it, put it on the shelf like you do with dvds
19:07:50 <MK_FG> I don't see why it'd break there
19:08:14 <MK_FG> Sure, if you use it constantly, it eventually will, but you don't do that with dvds, right?
19:08:23 <MK_FG> (because they will die much sooner then)
19:09:19 <monod> in fact we've already taken into account the possibility to transfer dvds to hdds when readers will no more being around or something similar. You're right with the "put it on the desk and leave it alone", but we tend to transfer external hdd between desks here at home and that's where the most of the issues had come. Some other case is that the reader inside of the hdd case has itself stopped working
19:09:37 <monod> in really strange manners that atm I can'even say!
19:09:40 <monod> but
19:09:44 <monod> I know what you're thinking
19:09:49 <monod> use LAN for transfers!
19:10:10 <monod> and that would be extra cool and extra fast and all the like
19:10:31 <MK_FG> Hm, yeah, hdds aren't as transportable physically as dvds, I guess
19:10:58 <monod> and, not least, if you lose 1 dvd, you've lost <5GB
19:11:06 <monod> if you lose a hdd...
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19:11:18 <monod> my current external hard drive is half-alive
19:12:58 <MK_FG> 3.5" hdds worked surprisingly well for me before rise of flash drives, maybe they make them less shake-tolerant these days
19:13:55 <monod> 1 tera of hard disk that will likely go into the trash bin :( or I may lend it to others to joke them xDD
19:13:55 <monod> with its malfunctionings
19:14:04 <monod> ehh.. who knows :)
19:16:37 <monod> I feel that I may find a better solution spending a few time on evaluating the possibility of LAN sharing hmm
19:16:53 <monod> together with reorganization of my hdd and a new internal hdd to associate mine with
19:16:57 <monod> for more space
19:18:33 <MK_FG> Maybe do that hip cloud storage thing?
19:18:40 <monod> hip cloud?
19:18:44 <MK_FG> It seem to be dirt-cheap these days
19:18:47 <monod> hip cloud storage*?
19:18:53 <monod> oh
19:18:58 <MK_FG> Yep, cloud of hips ;)
19:18:59 <monod> is it like uploading files?
19:19:09 <monod> then I don't know what an hip is xD
19:19:20 <monod> I know it's a part of the body
19:19:27 <monod> but don't think that's the meaning xD
19:19:45 <MK_FG> "hipster" rings a bell? ;)
19:19:59 <monod> ohhh
19:20:00 <monod> yeah
19:20:02 <MK_FG> Anyway, I meant just offsite storage on some cloud services
19:20:16 <MK_FG> Just not all on one of them
19:20:30 <MK_FG> And with crypto client-side before upload
19:20:43 <monod> lawl, not bad :D
19:20:59 <monod> but how long could they stay in there?
19:21:03 <monod> as long as you pay?
19:22:46 <MK_FG> Depends on the service, I think they might let it stay after and be accessible, just not let you upload
19:23:11 <MK_FG> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_hosting_services
19:24:10 <MK_FG> Also, you can get something like 20-50G there (sum of different providers) for free ;)
19:24:42 <MK_FG> (but non-free costs are really low, maybe worth paying instead of hassle)
19:24:43 <monod> lulz
19:25:06 <monod> you speak as you're using these things a lot :P
19:25:25 <MK_FG> And I do! I keep my backups there ;)
19:25:32 <monod> here atm it's better the hassle instead of the paying :S
19:25:42 <monod> oh, see that
19:25:49 <monod> and now that you remind me
19:25:52 <MK_FG> https://github.com/mk-fg/tahoe-lafs-public-clouds
19:25:57 <monod> I have 25 gigs on dropbox XD
19:26:14 <MK_FG> On the 4 free clouds atm
19:29:02 <monod> too many information for a simple guy like me :) (I'm talking about your tahoe-lafs's page) when I see all that stuff together, it's like I've pressed the panic button xD
19:29:46 <monod> I can't (anymore) very well manage things I don't understand, because I used to do that a lot in the past, but now I'm
19:30:06 <monod> submerged/overwhelmed
19:30:16 <monod> (reason why I got chaos in the hdd too)
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19:31:56 <iceTwy> hmm.
19:31:57 <iceTwy> hi.
19:32:15 <monod> hi!
19:35:01 <monod> if I add files to a compressed archive, do I get worse compression ratio as it would have been compressing them all from the start?
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19:37:38 <MK_FG> Depends on the archive
19:37:48 <MK_FG> 7z and zip probably compress each one individually anyway
19:40:08 <monod> so no matter what I do
19:40:12 <monod> in those cases
19:40:40 <monod> I cannot find kgbarchiver for linux T_T
19:40:52 <monod> I've read there was a command line version for linux
19:41:33 <MK_FG> It might be worth picking some explicitly-stable archive format for backups
19:42:02 <MK_FG> E.g. some posix-standard tar and gzip, even xz barely fits the bill
19:42:06 <monod> lawl - you're right xDDD
19:42:17 <monod> I did not think of it xD
19:42:20 <monod> *crazy*
19:42:46 <monod> so I'll pick a common tar.gz or tar.xz or tar.bz2 for this backup
19:42:54 <monod> or also tar.7z or .7z
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20:09:38 <iceTwy> Hi again monod
20:09:38 <iceTwy> ;o
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20:38:38 <iceTwy> the ultimate solution to snoring
20:38:44 <iceTwy> http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1-x-Box-500-Pairs-Venitex-Conic-Classic-Foam-Ear-Plugs-SNR-37dB-Noise-Snoring-/330775687346?pt=UK_BOI_ProtectiveGear_RL&hash=item4d03c470b2
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20:42:34 <MK_FG> Nah, it's teh double-barreled shotgun
20:43:39 <monod> zomg
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20:45:38 <monod> I'm getting lost searching kgbarchiver for linux :S
20:48:53 <iceTwy> MK_FG: Yeah but could I use a double-barreled shotgun on my dad
20:50:24 <MK_FG> iceTwy, It's a universal tool - it doesn't mind or discriminate
20:51:31 <iceTwy> hmm
20:51:40 <iceTwy> I don't even have one!
20:52:42 <monod> hahahaah
20:53:05 <iceTwy> but sometimes I wish I had
20:53:06 <iceTwy> like
20:53:07 <iceTwy> I often have exams
20:53:23 <iceTwy> and when my dad snores the night before my exams
20:53:27 <iceTwy> I just want to...
20:53:28 <iceTwy> BOOM
20:57:09 <joepie91> monod: I'd recommend using a different PAQ-based archiver
20:57:18 <monod> ooooh
20:57:26 <monod> joepie91, I all ears
20:57:33 <monod> I'm trying to get help here and there
20:57:42 <joepie91> don't know much abbout them
20:57:49 <joepie91> but KGB is hard to get running properly
20:57:50 <joepie91> on Linux
20:57:50 <joepie91> :p
20:58:02 <monod> I did not want to ask here, but I've just mentioned I can't find it
20:58:03 <monod> oh
20:58:05 <monod> nice to hear
20:58:20 <monod> and nice also that it's not about a program, but an algo
20:58:27 <monod> so I only have to switch program
20:58:28 <monod> like
20:58:31 <monod> opentea
20:58:32 <joepie91> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAQ
20:58:33 <monod> or something
20:58:42 <monod> yeaheayh, read that yesterday, thanks :)
20:58:56 <joepie91> idk if you can unpack KGB archives
20:58:58 <joepie91> with a different one
20:59:52 <monod> I don't mind, I have no kgb archive yet
21:00:13 <monod> I only want to try and pack more than usual
21:00:22 <monod> not extreme
21:00:38 <monod> but also, I don't want to pack from 6.2 gigs to 6 or 5.9-5.8
21:00:45 <monod> that's the issue
21:00:57 <monod> I've tried some different algos today
21:00:59 <monod> almost all equal
21:07:32 <monod> this one seems the candidate for my second choice: "PeaZip is a free and open source[5] file manager and file archiver for Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux[6] and BSD."
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21:15:04 <mama> is joepie91 alive?
21:15:44 <joepie91> only in case of emergency
21:19:16 anonO_o (anonO_o@anonO_o) has joined #crytocc
21:19:40 <mama> joepie91: small emergency, please pm
21:20:05 <anonO_o> hai mama
21:20:27 <mama> helloooooooo anonO_o :D
21:38:04 <monod> if anyone needs a paq archiver, here I've found this one http://sourceforge.net/projects/powerpaq/?source=dlp
21:38:07 <monod> fyi
21:41:52 <joepie91> All Gawker articles are licensed on a Creative Commons attribution-NonCommercial license.
21:41:54 <joepie91> huh?
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21:49:38 <monod> oh my god
21:50:36 <monod> if in a folder I have a qwertyv1.0.1.exe followed by some files like this: "qwertyv1.0.1 1a.bin" qwertyv1.0.1 1b.bin "..." "qwertyv1.0.1 1f.bin"..
21:50:44 <monod> might it be a self-extractable archive???
21:51:13 <monod> (so that it's worthless compressing it and I can just end doing so?)
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22:05:36 <monod> guys
22:05:42 <monod> here's the partial benchmark result
22:06:42 <monod> PAQ8o6 -1 is better than xz -e9 :D on an .exe of 2838528 bytes, or 2.8 MB
22:07:03 <monod> better compression-ratio-wise
22:07:09 <monod> time-wise: opposite
22:07:18 <monod> xz -e9 is instantaneous
22:07:20 <monod> xD
22:07:55 <monod> and the difference is not shocking: 733151 vs 902380
22:08:07 <monod> hope this is not spam for you guys
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22:16:21 <joepie91> monod: of course it isn't spam :P
22:16:30 <joepie91> that's the awesome thing about public logging
22:16:35 <joepie91> even _if_ there's noone here right now that has any use for it
22:16:40 <joepie91> someone in the future will, and can read back
22:16:41 <joepie91> :p
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22:17:07 <monod> :)
22:23:11 zest (zest@cryto-C630644E.is.a.tor.exit.server.torland.is) has joined #crytocc
22:26:36 <zest> loggy pointer ?
22:29:16 <monod> loggy, pointer? zest
22:29:20 <monod> loggy, pointer?
22:29:20 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-05-27#T22-29-20
22:29:29 <zest> yeah thanks
22:29:33 <monod> welcoem
22:30:13 <zest> monod: try 7zip
22:30:30 <monod> already did
22:30:34 <monod> kinda slow
22:30:37 <monod> it uses lzma
22:30:39 <monod> algo
22:30:40 <zest> monod: yeah
22:30:48 <monod> is it better than xz?
22:31:04 <zest> monod: one of the most advanced algos
22:31:24 <monod> have you heard of PAQ? :)
22:31:25 <zest> monod: and stable afaik
22:31:39 <monod> nice to know - stability is important in backuping
22:32:16 <zest> they are all from one serie: lossless data compression
22:32:39 <zest> actually no difference
22:33:39 <zest> http://www.dotnetperls.com/7-zip-examples
22:34:57 <zest> bzip2 as you wish have some fancy additions to default Huffman coding
22:35:57 <monod> oh
22:36:54 <monod> what do you mean with "no difference"?
22:37:11 <monod> It seems obvious that they do not reach the same compression ratio
22:37:34 <monod> they're only equal to each other in the sense of lossless compression?
22:38:55 <zest> because no better algo for universal compression yet
22:39:07 <zest> it dependeds from what kind of data you compress
22:39:22 <zest> No algorithm can compress every bitstring
22:39:28 <zest> quote
22:43:16 <monod> oh
22:43:33 <monod> you seem to knoe the field
22:43:40 <monod> did you study these things?
22:46:19 <zest> yeah, actually do some similar to 7zip and gzip compression right now
22:46:59 <monod> are you writing an algo for compression?
22:47:05 <monod> or I just misunderstood?
22:47:12 <zest> yes
22:47:17 <monod> have* I
22:47:22 <monod> woa
22:47:44 <zest> Huffman, Burrows-Wheeler, MoveToFront
22:47:49 <monod> what are the basics to get into compression theory? study of algorithms? basic pattern matching?
22:48:45 <monod> is Huffman that sort of thing that creates a new codification for the alphabet, such that most common letters from the alphabet have shorter codes and so the resulting string is shorter?
22:48:54 <zest> understand how binary data can be represented
22:49:03 <monod> oh
22:49:18 <zest> yes you are right about huffman
22:50:08 <zest> you change most frequent strings coded by shortest bit sequences
22:51:03 <zest> not for alphabet but for most frequent sequences
22:51:36 <monod> so also pair, triples, n-ples of elements from the alphabet?
22:51:45 <zest> also you need to know what is binary tree
22:51:54 <monod> of course I do
22:52:08 <monod> damn
22:52:16 <monod> I think I'll love algorithm's courses
22:52:21 <zest> )))
22:52:23 <monod> :D
22:52:33 <monod> if THESE are the kind of shit they teach
22:52:47 <monod> shit in a positive meaning :3
22:52:53 <monod> if any :3 :3
22:53:56 <zest> this is network actually and galaxy and many many other things can be represented by tress, tries, etc
22:54:43 <monod> (xz compressed a 543.7 folder to a 511.2 archive in 13 minutes; paq8o6 is still running after a hour and it's written 131 MB.. hope it will finish soon :) )
22:55:29 <zest> I have problems with performance too right now )
22:56:07 <zest> trees*
22:56:50 <monod> wow
22:57:02 <monod> so you're creating a new algorithm
22:57:22 <monod> sort of
22:58:21 <zest> no, just for assignment ^_^
22:59:09 <zest> currently all existed algos about optimizing operations
22:59:33 <zest> nothing new, reinvent old if you wish )
23:00:47 <zest> iPhone, Sony Playstation 3, Apache HTTP server: LZ77 variant + Huffman
23:01:01 <monod> implemented where?
23:01:16 <monod> for compressing devices' things?
23:01:18 <monod> files*
23:01:28 <zest> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlib
23:01:46 <monod> Written in: C
23:01:53 <monod> :goes on his knees:
23:01:54 <monod> lawl
23:02:20 <zest> wiki: The Linux kernel itself, where zlib is used to implement compressed network protocols, compressed file systems and to decompress the kernel image itself at boot time.
23:02:34 <monod> oh god
23:02:42 <monod> I never heard about:
23:02:47 <monod> compressed network protocols
23:02:52 <zest> monod: I stand beside you
23:02:55 <zest> )
23:03:42 <monod> is it just a way of compressing comunication packets? you're fine, just not be behind me please :P
23:04:46 <zest> monod: I found description that this is used to compress data sent in the internet
23:05:15 <zest> for compression*
23:05:28 <monod> oh okay, so it's the common problem of compress the packets you're transmitting, to speed up comunications
23:05:36 <monod> as just an example
23:05:41 <zest> yeah ... )
23:05:59 <zest> bits are everywhere )
23:06:03 <monod> haha
23:06:04 <monod> xD
23:06:11 <zest> D
23:07:24 <zest> monod: I was happy to talk with you monod, bye
23:07:31 zest has quit (User quit: hf)
23:09:52 <monod> Me liked it as well! zest
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23:18:24 <monod> gotta go guys, I will inform you of the heavy compression result with PAQ8o6 tomorrow! :D
23:18:31 <monod> byeeeeeee
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23:41:21 <Shinji> 7
23:59:21 <Shinji> mama :)