Cryto! 22 May 2013

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00:14:52 <AnonForecast> lol
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00:33:59 <joepie91> ohai emptyreddata
00:34:46 <crytocc-c> joepie91
00:34:52 <crytocc-c> you never respond to irc or skype?
00:35:08 <joepie91> crytocc-c: every time I respond, you seem to be offline
00:35:08 <joepie91> >.>
00:35:13 <joepie91> so, ohai :p
00:35:18 <crytocc-c> well, i'm online now lOL.
00:35:31 <crytocc-c> just ranting about stupid crap.
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00:35:42 <emptyreddata> Hi there joepie91, what's up?
00:36:24 <joepie91> not terribly much, struggling with XMPP atm
00:36:39 <joepie91> whoever thought it was a good idea to make room joins and status changes to 'available' indistinguishable...
00:39:23 <emptyreddata> Cool. Working on something cool I suppose? :)
00:39:36 <twitchyliquid64> UB3R_1337_KR3W, this is not a 'hacking sec'. You also fail to read. The topic says 'NO cracking' etc. If you cant even read you will be entirely incapable of even finding a 'hacking sec'
00:39:59 <twitchyliquid64> emptyreddata: hes makng a new XMPP server thingy
00:40:42 <joepie91> emptyreddata: yes, are you familiar with Hipchat?
00:40:48 <joepie91> or Campfire, which afaik is similar
00:41:23 <emptyreddata> Not really. I've only seen it a couple of times but never worked with it.
00:41:36 <joepie91> basically, team collab stuff over XMPP
00:41:42 <joepie91> working on a similar idea, but open-source
00:41:57 <joepie91> oh, emptyreddata, not sure if I notified you of this before
00:42:05 <joepie91> but this channel is publicly logged (see also the topic)
00:42:13 <joepie91> you can prefix things with [off] to have them not logged
00:42:16 <joepie91> :P
00:42:25 <emptyreddata> Ha, didn't know you could do that. That's neat
00:42:39 <joepie91> loggy, pointer?
00:42:39 <loggy>
00:43:28 <joepie91> but yeah, while XMPP seems generally well-designed
00:43:33 <joepie91> there are a few things that make me go "wtf?"
00:43:45 <joepie91> and there's just a _lot_ of information to take in
00:44:31 <emptyreddata> Yah, the RFC for it is quite lengthy.
00:44:35 <joepie91> heh
00:44:37 <joepie91> the RFC is nothing
00:44:40 <joepie91> the real fun starts with the XEps
00:44:41 <joepie91> XEPs *
00:45:01 <joepie91>
00:45:14 <emptyreddata> Oh shiz, extension protocols? Sounds fun xD
00:45:22 <joepie91> I've had to read like 5 so far
00:45:26 <joepie91> to even _start_ doing anything with XMPP
00:45:35 <joepie91> now normally there are libraries to handle things
00:45:39 <joepie91> but I have such a strange and hacky setup...
00:45:51 <joepie91> I have a Python thing connecting as an external XMPP component
00:45:59 <joepie91> with Prosody as XMPP daemon
00:46:07 <joepie91> with a custom plug-in to forward everything to the component
00:46:24 <joepie91> (at this point, we've already had two specific XEPs: external components and stanza forwarding)
00:46:47 <joepie91> the component then unpacks it and manually runs it through a pile of 'matchers' to figure out what kind of stanza it is
00:47:02 <joepie91> and then either processes it manually or throws it into the right sleekxmpp plugin to further process it
00:47:10 <joepie91> with a spaghetti of callbacks, events, and functions
00:47:24 <joepie91> sad part is, there is no easier way
00:47:24 <joepie91> :P
00:47:48 <emptyreddata> Sounds like you have your hands full then. Seems overly complicated to setup.
00:47:53 <joepie91> indeed
00:48:08 <joepie91> and it's clear that neither Prosody nor SleekXMPP nor really any other kind of XMPP-related thing was designed
00:48:10 <joepie91> for this usecase
00:48:30 <joepie91> so I end up applying hacks left and right, and using bits and pieces of existing libraries to build an actually reliable component
00:48:42 <joepie91> and somehow, it all works together
00:48:43 <joepie91> reliably
00:49:23 <joepie91> at the same time, I'm learning how XMPP works, learning how Prosody works, and learning how SleekXMPP works
00:49:38 <joepie91> and there's several moving parts - the component, the API, the future web interface
00:50:48 <joepie91> anyway, for tonight I'm done
00:50:50 <joepie91> continuing tomorrow
00:51:31 <emptyreddata> Sounds like its drinking time then xD
00:51:41 * joepie91 doesn't drink alcohol
00:51:42 <joepie91> :p
00:51:47 <joepie91> more like sleeping time
00:51:52 <joepie91> it's almost 03:00 here
00:52:08 <joepie91> going to try and get Anno 1701 running under WINE via PlayOnLinux
00:52:09 <joepie91> and after that, sleep
00:52:16 <emptyreddata> Ahhh. That's right, you're in norway or some other place near there.
00:52:32 <joepie91> Netherlands *
00:52:32 <emptyreddata> Like the silly american I am, I assume everyone online shares my timezone.
00:52:40 <joepie91> there's a solution for that!
00:52:54 <joepie91>
00:52:54 <emptyreddata> Por que?
00:53:37 <emptyreddata> Haha that's perfect. lol
01:09:25 <joepie91> heh, cat is telling me to go to bed
01:10:13 <emptyreddata> obey the cat
01:19:13 <lady-3jane> OBEY
01:19:13 <joepie91> our cat has a habit of coming up to you to cuddle late at night, if she wants you to go to bed
01:19:14 <joepie91> lol
01:19:29 <lady-3jane> sleep joe :>
01:27:18 <crytocc-c> anyone know any good machines where I could get 2 1gb/s ports built into the intel chipset and then add in an addition 4x 1gb/s into the machine
01:27:20 <crytocc-c> ?
01:31:57 <lady-3jane> like 4x1gbit plugs on-board and room for 2 more on pci-x?
01:32:21 <crytocc-c> 2x1gbit on-board and room for an additional 4
01:34:06 <joepie91> installer working...
01:45:07 <lady-3jane> ahh
01:45:15 <lady-3jane> well the right mobo will give you all that
01:45:49 <lady-3jane> find one with 2 on board, and you'll want one with a fast enough bus to run all its pci-e? ports at full blast, with plenty of room to spare
01:49:49 <joepie91> wtf is up with playonlinux 'forgetting' the WINE version I picked
02:04:13 <lady-3jane> :/
02:04:31 <joepie91> guess I've gotten it working
02:04:35 <joepie91> now to dig up a CD key
02:04:46 * joepie91 doesn't feel like digging through 20 boxes to find his legitimate game case
02:05:46 <lady-3jane> lel
02:06:10 <joepie91> now let's se if the actual game works
02:06:11 <joepie91> see *
02:06:12 <lady-3jane> hawt, chrome 27
02:06:23 <lady-3jane> 5% faster page loads :D
02:06:25 * joepie91 is not sure whether this a  loading screen
02:06:27 <joepie91> goddamnit
02:06:32 <joepie91> after loading screen, it crashed
02:06:35 <lady-3jane> :(
02:06:58 <joepie91> wine: Call from 0x7bc4d8a0 to unimplemented function granny2.dll._GrannyNewMeshDeformer@16, aborting
02:06:59 <joepie91> bla
02:07:08 * lady-3jane sits down to continue watching google io talks
02:07:45 <joepie91> attempt no 2
02:08:10 <joepie91> boom
02:08:21 <lady-3jane> pew pew
02:08:32 <lady-3jane> you know what terrifies me?
02:08:49 <lady-3jane> that the averages being reported for "popular site" sizes are over 1mb
02:09:01 <lady-3jane> gotta pull in 1mb of shit to have their page
02:09:06 <lady-3jane> 700kb on mobile
02:09:11 <lady-3jane> that is fucking LUDICROUS.
02:09:19 <joepie91> I guess it's WINE version lotto then
02:09:25 <lady-3jane> YAYERRRRR
02:09:26 <joepie91> pick versions until one works
02:09:27 <lady-3jane> :P
02:10:11 <joepie91> even the playonlinux script shit itself :(
02:10:25 <joepie91> apparently anno 1701 is notoriously hard to get to work
02:10:32 <joepie91> to the point where there are actual videos on youtube about it
02:10:59 <lady-3jane> heeeheeeeeeee
02:11:06 <joepie91> but hey
02:11:09 <joepie91> I got installshield working
02:11:11 <joepie91> and the fucker boots
02:11:17 <joepie91> that's much farther than I was before
02:11:17 <joepie91> lol
02:11:23 <joepie91> further* ?
02:11:45 <lady-3jane> dunno
02:11:50 <lady-3jane> I'd guess further
02:12:01 <joepie91> well, it got to the point of displaying a 'busy' cursor
02:12:04 <joepie91> that's more than before
02:12:08 <joepie91> crashed a few seconds later
02:12:23 <lady-3jane> ahhh
02:12:45 <lady-3jane> farther is almost always with physical distance, further is for any sort of metaphorical distance
02:14:34 <joepie91> right
02:15:56 <joepie91> wtf is with this granny crap
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16:08:33 <joepie91> so
16:08:38 <joepie91> got my stuff from buyincoins
16:08:38 <joepie91> whee!
16:08:39 <joepie91> including dust blower ball thing
16:08:40 <joepie91> CPU temp dropped from 32 to 19 celsius....
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16:12:06 <joepie91> ohai pzuraq
16:12:56 <pzuraq> ohai joepie
16:12:58 <pzuraq> lol
16:13:03 <pzuraq> in my tongue, that rhymes
16:13:09 <pzuraq> but in yours it does not
16:13:19 <joepie91> lol
16:13:20 <joepie91> also
16:13:20 <joepie91> <joepie91>got my stuff from buyincoins
16:13:20 <joepie91> <joepie91>whee!
16:13:20 <joepie91> <joepie91>including dust blower ball thing
16:13:20 <joepie91> <joepie91>CPU temp dropped from 32 to 19 celsius....
16:13:49 <pzuraq> dust blower thing?
16:14:16 <pzuraq> also, buyincoins looks awesome
16:15:06 <joepie91> it is
16:15:09 <joepie91>
16:15:31 <joepie91> stresstesting cpu atm
16:15:46 <joepie91> full load for 5 minutes, 55 celsius
16:16:26 <joepie91> approaching 60
16:16:39 <DrWhat> a tire pump does the job just as good
16:16:53 <joepie91> DrWhat: no, it doesn't
16:16:59 <DrWhat> plus higher air pressure
16:17:03 <joepie91> A. it doesn't have this kind of nozzle and B. it's not handheld in one hand
16:17:14 <joepie91> and C. tire pumps have a tendency of having somewhat moist air coming out
16:17:18 <DrWhat> Mine does
16:17:22 <joepie91> that's exactly what you want to avoid
16:17:22 <DrWhat> and its plasic
16:17:24 <DrWhat> so not static
16:17:25 <joepie91> for this kind of thing
16:18:08 <DrWhat> heard about the blaze emulator :)
16:18:30 <DrWhat> im looking forward to it :D
16:18:38 <joepie91> I have not
16:18:42 <DrWhat> ive applied to be a beta tester
16:19:20 <LastOneStanding> hihi
16:19:23 <LastOneStanding> i have a question
16:19:33 <LastOneStanding> about doemela and his irc server
16:19:39 <LastOneStanding> cyberguerilla
16:19:55 <joepie91> please ensure, first of all, that this is the channel where you want to be asking this
16:20:15 <lady-3jane> oh, it's an ear cleaner for your pc
16:20:40 <joepie91> more like the manual version of a pressurized air container
16:21:35 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) ear cleaner:
16:21:59 <joepie91> lol
16:22:09 <lady-3jane> similar objects
16:22:10 <lady-3jane> :>
16:22:29 <lady-3jane> and hmm, a bobble would last longer than fucking canned air
16:22:40 <joepie91> yes
16:23:16 <lady-3jane> what kind of payments do they take? paypal I see
16:23:24 <joepie91> yes :P
16:23:27 <joepie91> paypal only afaik
16:23:32 <joepie91> (including CC via paypal)
16:23:36 * lady-3jane grumbles
16:23:38 <lady-3jane> yeah
16:23:51 <LastOneStanding> just want to know if its safe to go on there
16:23:55 <lady-3jane> I wish dwolla was available to outside the US
16:23:59 <LastOneStanding> i see the names was changed to rootd
16:24:07 <lady-3jane> <10$ is no transaction fee
16:24:15 <LastOneStanding> and i know anonset changed to rootd
16:24:17 <LastOneStanding> and then shot to shit
16:24:19 <joepie91> LastOneStanding: as I've said many many many times
16:24:26 <joepie91> IRC is an inherently insecure protocol
16:24:32 <joepie91> trusting _any_ IRC network would be foolish
16:24:36 <LastOneStanding> well
16:24:41 <LastOneStanding> i know for a fact
16:24:49 <LastOneStanding> dmzpkts is behing rootd
16:24:56 <LastOneStanding> in any server he goes into
16:25:02 <joepie91> LastOneStanding: all this shouldn't even be relevant
16:25:05 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) I could trust this one if I got root on all the nodes and did security audits :D
16:25:12 <joepie91> if you were vigilant about security, you would be ASSUMING that everything is compromised
16:25:20 <joepie91> meaning that something being ACTUALLY compromised has 0 news value
16:25:21 <emptyreddata> ^ aye
16:25:25 <joepie91> and 0 significance
16:25:29 <joepie91> because you were already assuming it anyway
16:26:18 <joepie91> if you want secure communications, then use something where it doesn't _matter_ whether servers are compromised
16:26:20 <joepie91> such as XMPP + OTR
16:26:41 <lady-3jane> mmhmm
16:26:56 <lady-3jane> someday sue will set up our xmpp server
16:27:10 <lady-3jane> database backed and all that fanciness :>
16:27:27 <joepie91> lady-3jane: I'd like to recommend Prosody
16:27:32 <LastOneStanding> sue?
16:27:34 <lady-3jane> and I'm making him get a real ssl cert for that address for a little bit more faux security
16:27:38 <joepie91> it generally works very well, and I've found the community to be extremely helpful
16:27:39 <LastOneStanding> thanks for the lecture
16:27:44 <lady-3jane> yeah?
16:27:44 * LastOneStanding high fives everyone
16:27:50 <LastOneStanding> so helpful :|
16:28:00 <lady-3jane> ahhh, in lua
16:28:13 <lady-3jane> I bet that's much easier to deal with than fucking erlang
16:28:21 <lady-3jane> because that shit was so finicky
16:28:45 <joepie91> found ejabberd to be terrible
16:28:49 <lady-3jane> yes
16:28:52 <joepie91> both in terms of reliability and community
16:28:56 <lady-3jane> terrible is charitable
16:28:59 <joepie91> lol
16:29:02 <joepie91> but yeah, use Prosody
16:29:07 <joepie91> there's also a good amount of plugins for it
16:29:08 <lady-3jane> kk
16:29:11 <lady-3jane> does it have user database?
16:29:11 <joepie91> that let you do things with databases
16:29:16 <lady-3jane> okay
16:29:18 <joepie91> it can even do ejabberd extauth scripts
16:29:24 <joepie91> which is what I am doing right now
16:29:30 <lady-3jane> cause we want to do SSO backed by a db shared by all services
16:29:36 <joepie91> (using the auth_external_ejabberd or whatever mod)
16:29:44 <lady-3jane> that's the end-idea
16:30:00 <lady-3jane> sign up for mail, automatically get xmpp and all that
16:30:10 <lady-3jane> or sign up for xmpp, can receive mail at your xmpp handle
16:30:14 <lady-3jane> etc
16:30:27 <joepie91> yes
16:30:33 <joepie91> should be possible with extauth
16:30:37 <lady-3jane> yeah
16:30:45 <joepie91> extauth script == prosody will contact an externally running process to ask "hey, is this login valid"
16:30:55 <lady-3jane> we may need to write some glue, but that's no biggie
16:31:03 <joepie91> probably no glue ncessary
16:31:05 <joepie91> :P
16:31:05 <joepie91> necessary *
16:31:09 <lady-3jane> that'd be nice
16:31:49 <joepie91> pop over to
16:31:57 <joepie91> and ask around there
16:31:57 <joepie91> :p
16:32:02 <lady-3jane> oh hey I know how to do that
16:33:24 <lady-3jane> I think
16:33:28 * lady-3jane fucks with pidgin
16:34:39 <lady-3jane> :O
16:34:40 <lady-3jane> IT WORKED
16:34:57 <lady-3jane> this is the first time I have ever gotten xmpp to work out of the box
16:35:00 <lady-3jane> :OOOOO
16:36:20 <joepie91> why's that?
16:36:25 <joepie91> I haven't had issues with it ever, really
16:36:34 <joepie91> except for the sometimes shoddy roster updates
16:36:35 <lady-3jane> dunno
16:36:40 <lady-3jane> I've never had it work
16:36:43 <joepie91> but that seems to be an issue specific to and
16:36:46 <lady-3jane> it's why I've never had an xmpp handle
16:36:52 <joepie91> because I haven't had the issue since I switched to
16:36:52 <joepie91> hm, odd
16:36:55 <lady-3jane> cept gmail I guess, but that's going away
16:37:29 <lady-3jane> sue's getting paranoid as shit about google and everything, so they're making distributed services
16:37:36 <lady-3jane> I hope it gets finished, gonna be legit
16:37:53 <lady-3jane> though I think it's gonna all be debian and not my love, freebsd
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19:54:24 <eyesonlyhack> hey, i wanted to ask. What is the best way to install a hidden operating system or files that has plausible deniability
19:54:53 <eyesonlyhack> i live in country where you can be compelled by law to give up your password
19:57:16 <eyesonlyhack> i've thought of truecrypt, with a hidden OS? anyone have any thoughts?
19:58:59 <IR601> truecrypt is probably the best way to go
19:59:16 <IR601> or virtual machines
19:59:26 <IR601> or a combo of both
19:59:34 <IR601> think inception
19:59:35 <IR601> XD
20:00:19 <IR601> have a look at tails
20:00:21 <emptyreddata> Truecrypt is best. Just make sure you read through its suggestions on increasing the security and what it doesn't help fight.
20:01:46 <eyesonlyhack> cool, thanks. I'm trying to get into all this crypto/anonymity stuff, i'm trying to figure out a good combination/setup for myself
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20:46:40 <MK_FG> eyesonlyhack, Umm... if you can be compelled to give up your password you can a) say you forgot it and it's just a random data
20:47:18 <MK_FG> b) it doesn't matter what you say, you have to prove you don't have cryptocontainer, which is impossible due to stenography and such
20:48:06 <eyesonlyhack> well, apparently it's not good enough to say you forgot your password
20:48:44 <MK_FG> Then if you gov has reason to suspect you hide stuff, you're boned no matter what, no? ;)
20:51:12 <eyesonlyhack> well, i'm not 100% sure what flies and what does not
20:51:50 <eyesonlyhack> i live in South Africa, and apparently here you can be compelled to give your password to say an encrypted laptop
20:52:11 <eyesonlyhack> do i'm hoping plausible deniability works
20:53:51 <eyesonlyhack> luckily here, the government is completely incompetent and knows nothing about technology
20:55:40 <MK_FG> Heh, I'd think that makes problem much worse, in fact
20:55:59 <MK_FG> Meaning that from their pov, the best way to detect if you hide something...
20:56:20 <MK_FG> to beat you with rubber hose until you give up everything you possibly know
20:56:38 <zest> you they know how to detect way he hide )))
20:56:45 <MK_FG> No need (or point) to look at this technology thing at all! ;)
20:56:46 <zest> you/if
20:57:07 <zest> they/they would
20:57:29 <zest> way/the way
20:57:46 <zest> oh man my eng is terrible, I need practice more )
20:58:35 <zest> MK_FG: so why they not beat him yet ?)
20:59:04 <MK_FG> No point yet
20:59:12 <zest> * they have fear to hear what he might say I think )
20:59:35 <eyesonlyhack>
21:00:51 <zest> don't say "I hide" to non-tech guys and everything will be fine )
21:02:38 <eyesonlyhack> what about self destruct crypto, the keys are encrypted and sent to a server, you download them, then unencrypt with a different password, but the server will self destruct the encrypted keys in certain circumstances
21:03:20 <eyesonlyhack> so you need to login to that server once a day, to keep your keys or something
21:03:27 <MK_FG> Might as well just store all data on some remote machine
21:03:47 <MK_FG> Sensitive-enough data, that is
21:04:08 <eyesonlyhack> that probably is better
21:04:24 <MK_FG> "you have to produce sufficient evidence to the judge that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the decryption key holder is in possession of the encrypted information and the decryption key"
21:04:53 <zest> mess
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21:05:11 <eyesonlyhack> yes, so plausible deniability or self destruction keys would work
21:05:14 <MK_FG> I imagine if the prosecution provide the logs of you logging to some vps, you'd have to give them root for it
21:05:35 <eyesonlyhack> i've never though of it that way, but i guess so
21:06:15 <eyesonlyhack> it would need to be booby trapped, in some undetectable way
21:06:27 <MK_FG> In prosecutor's place, I don't think I'd have any reason to believe that if you say "my key self-destructed", you're telling the truth
21:06:30 T0R_till has quit (User quit:  Connection closed)
21:06:51 <MK_FG> Booby-trapped in an obvious and easily-verifiable way, more like ;)
21:07:01 <MK_FG> But there's no guarantee you don't have backups
21:07:22 <MK_FG> I'd keep one or two, just in case of hiccup with such boobytrap ;)
21:07:24 <eyesonlyhack> well, if a service out there exists for self-destructable keys, then it's possible
21:07:52 <eyesonlyhack> i don't think they can lock you up for using a service like that
21:07:57 <MK_FG> I guess so, if it's a known and trusted one
21:08:05 <MK_FG> Like google or something like that...
21:08:17 <MK_FG> ...and it's not yet backdoored ;)
21:08:34 <eyesonlyhack> so a 3rd party would have your keys (But encrypted)
21:08:58 <eyesonlyhack> you can be forced to give up your password/account to service
21:08:59 <zxcvbnm> it's backdoored by the US :)
21:09:02 <zxcvbnm> just assume that much
21:09:22 <MK_FG> By whatever country it operates in, there laws for that
21:10:01 <eyesonlyhack> well, i'm in South Africa, there is only one kind of backdoor we here and it's not tech related ;)
21:10:13 <MK_FG> No one would bother if it's some obscure service, but that means no one would believe/know about it either
21:10:54 <eyesonlyhack> it could be a documented open source program, then i could host it myself on a vps
21:11:43 <eyesonlyhack> i'm just trying to think of a way of doing this without having to lie, by using the plausible deniability
21:12:07 <MK_FG> But you are going to lie about not having something, no?
21:12:18 <eyesonlyhack> because then i would be relying on say truecrypts plausible deniability technology
21:12:22 <eyesonlyhack> not having flaws
21:12:33 <eyesonlyhack> no, i lie about nothing
21:13:01 <eyesonlyhack> well the encrypted files yes
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21:16:02 <MK_FG> If I'd really have to hide this data, I'd consider having something that can indeed block my last access to these
21:16:47 <MK_FG> Like killing the hdd, burning the note, or maybe breaking the smartcard chip
21:17:28 <MK_FG> Don't expect to hold any secrets under well-practiced police inquiries and tactical beatings ;)
21:18:12 <eyesonlyhack> well, with self destructable keys, they can't get the data, even with beating, i just can't give them anything
21:18:14 <MK_FG> Most people don't seem to do well there...
21:18:26 <MK_FG> Yep, that's the point
21:18:35 <eyesonlyhack> that why  i don't like the hidden os idea
21:19:48 <eyesonlyhack> but i have not heard of any crypto that implements any self destruction ideas/concepts
21:20:29 <eyesonlyhack> i've heard of Jullian Assange suggest it
21:20:54 <MK_FG> It's easy enough to do if your system is online
21:21:21 <MK_FG> (at least it seems so, might be hard to make it robust enough)
21:21:54 <MK_FG> (...i.e. so it won't get triggered by accident, ever)
21:23:41 <eyesonlyhack> well, i like the ideas of only your keys being online, but all your data on a hard drive or laptop
21:25:40 <MK_FG> By "online" above I meant "turned on" ;)
21:27:22 <MK_FG>
21:28:16 <MK_FG> (just lulzy title)
21:31:10 <eyesonlyhack> yeah, i suppose the best thing here is to stay off the radar, so anonymity is more important than encryption
21:32:30 <MK_FG> Or just go over to "nothing to hide" or "beyond pain" cranks' territories ;)
21:32:34 <eyesonlyhack> for the article though, the best way to fight that is promote p2p technologies, that don't have big central databases of all your data
21:34:10 <MK_FG> Hah, I didn't actually read it myself, just seen some reptoidz set it as a topic for some channel (on a third attempt, no less) ;)
21:35:20 <eyesonlyhack> well, it is basically about government spying on everyone and who you chat with
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22:13:15 <crytocc-c> ...fuck...paypal...
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22:15:00 <iceTwy> hai
22:15:05 <iceTwy> does anyone have an actual idea
22:15:05 <iceTwy> of
22:15:11 <iceTwy> how to completely erase a fie
22:15:24 <iceTwy> file*
22:15:26 <iceTwy> on Linux, obv.
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22:31:50 <MK_FG> iceTwy, On hdd - "shred -u file"
22:31:59 <iceTwy> and
22:32:03 <iceTwy> what about data remanence
22:32:08 <iceTwy> from old files deleted normally?
22:32:16 <iceTwy> I was thinking about sfill and/or BleachBit
22:32:30 <iceTwy> and I'm yet to find a good solution for my SDD :/
22:32:34 <iceTwy> SSD*
22:33:01 <MK_FG> Don't think there's well-known easy and/or reliable way for ssd
22:33:11 <iceTwy> That's what they say, yeah.
22:33:15 <MK_FG> Toss it into a fire or something
22:33:20 <MK_FG> That's simple ;)
22:33:20 <iceTwy> herp
22:33:36 <iceTwy> I'm not in massive trouble
22:33:40 <iceTwy> don't need to do that ^^
22:33:45 <iceTwy> simply looki
22:33:52 <iceTwy> looking* for a way to effectively erase old data
22:33:54 <iceTwy> from my HDD.
22:34:01 <iceTwy> cause I'll be selling an old PC
22:34:03 <iceTwy> so ye
22:34:15 <MK_FG> Use dm-crypt and just throw out the key, never store it
22:34:32 <MK_FG> With old pc - use shred on whole disk
22:34:49 <iceTwy> shred
22:34:57 <iceTwy> or..
22:34:57 <MK_FG> Even with ssd, several overwrites should purge everything from non-provisioned space
22:35:00 <iceTwy> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda bs=1M
22:35:01 <iceTwy> ?
22:35:09 <MK_FG> shred does the same thing
22:35:13 <iceTwy> oh does itr
22:35:22 <iceTwy> does it fill up the HDD with random data?
22:35:25 <MK_FG> And several times, by default
22:36:03 <MK_FG> Read the man, yes, first few times - urandom, then final pass with zeroes, if enabled
22:36:31 <MK_FG> Just 3 urandom by default or something like that
22:37:08 <iceTwy> alrighty
22:37:31 <iceTwy> I wouldn't want to have my old PW's and what not retrieved from my old PC.
22:37:35 <iceTwy> changed them all since then but still
22:38:20 <MK_FG> I think dm-crypt solves that problem nicely - just forget the key and that's it ;)
22:39:13 <MK_FG> (well, and purge all the luks backups, too...)
22:39:27 <iceTwy> *shrug*
22:39:32 <iceTwy> dm-crypt can be pwned with a cold boot
22:39:35 <iceTwy> attack
22:39:55 <iceTwy> I'm not running the risk of having LEOs com
22:39:59 <iceTwy> breaking into my apartment
22:40:01 <iceTwy> at all
22:40:03 <iceTwy> but, still, lol
22:40:15 <MK_FG> Restore from hibernate, you mean?
22:40:32 <iceTwy> Nope.
22:40:34 <iceTwy> Cold boot attacks.
22:40:41 <iceTwy> They're vicious really.
22:41:12 <iceTwy> If you do it properly, you can save some data from your DRAM chip.
22:41:20 <iceTwy> Basically, you unplug your PC.
22:41:36 <iceTwy> Then you cool the DRAM chip with a compressed air can or liquid nitrogen.
22:41:45 <iceTwy> And the data on the DRAM chip is preserved.
22:41:57 <iceTwy> Then with some special live CD it can be retrieved.
22:42:10 <iceTwy> Say you had a key in the memory for dm-crypt.
22:42:13 <iceTwy> You can find it then.
22:42:16 <iceTwy> And you're pwned.
22:43:01 <MK_FG> Sure, but so is probably just when you leave pc enabled and someone that cool inserts custom chip into usb
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22:43:33 <MK_FG> Your ubuntu or whatever bloat-thing loads some "lego controller of 1997" driver for it and there you go, pwnt
22:43:34 <iceTwy> wouldn't it depend on whether you've enabled USB to access that kind of data
22:43:34 <iceTwy> ?
22:43:43 <iceTwy> rofl
22:44:10 <MK_FG> Module loading is enabled by default, and there're tons of stuff like that ;)
22:44:20 <iceTwy> agh. :<
22:44:56 <iceTwy> That's vicious!
22:45:21 <MK_FG> Should be possible to purge dm-crypt key though, easy even
22:45:38 <MK_FG> But remounting fs as ro or freezing all access to it, dunno
22:45:48 <iceTwy> there's a simpler way
22:45:54 <iceTwy> install smem
22:45:59 <iceTwy> wipe the DRAM data
22:46:00 <iceTwy> boom
22:46:15 <MK_FG> Heh, or just pull the cable out ;)
22:46:26 <iceTwy> heh
22:46:29 <iceTwy> depends
22:46:52 <iceTwy> again, if some LEO's standing by your PC
22:46:58 <iceTwy> with your PC case open
22:47:11 <MK_FG> You're nuts
22:47:16 <iceTwy> and & if the LEO has a cooling thingy in his hand
22:47:17 <iceTwy> boom
22:47:18 <MK_FG> And you don't really need to purge all the data, just keys
22:47:25 <iceTwy> well yeah
22:47:51 <iceTwy> and I'm a bit nuts cause I like privacy.
22:48:26 <MK_FG> Pretty sure kernel should do the right thing with the key if you unset it with dmsetup or something
22:48:58 <MK_FG> If not, should be a few lines to zero it in ram on free
22:49:13 <iceTwy> Yup.
22:49:22 <iceTwy> But the point was to clear an old HDD anyway, lol.
22:49:32 <iceTwy> Not saving your ass in an emergency situation with a LEO trying to seize your PC.
22:49:33 <iceTwy> ^^
22:50:07 <iceTwy> derp I'm going to die tomorrow
22:50:09 <iceTwy> at school
22:50:10 <MK_FG> Just put it out of its misery already
22:50:10 <iceTwy> it's late
22:50:11 <iceTwy> :<
22:50:19 <MK_FG> Who cares about old hdds anyway
22:50:21 <iceTwy> Yeah I'll do that tomorrow
22:50:24 <MK_FG> They're dirt cheap!
22:50:25 <iceTwy> I had cool stuff on it!
22:50:34 <iceTwy> Well, it has a sentimental value
22:50:35 <iceTwy> :<
22:50:45 <iceTwy> I had it for 4.5 years.
22:51:03 <iceTwy> ran a good dozen Linux distros on it
22:51:04 <MK_FG> Fine, cremation it is
22:51:34 <iceTwy> Clean death.
22:51:35 <iceTwy> Lmao
22:51:40 <iceTwy> But I'm selling my old PC!
22:51:46 <iceTwy> The buyer will want a HDD with it.
22:51:57 <iceTwy> I'll probs sell it for 250€.
22:52:02 <iceTwy> Or 300€.
22:52:10 <iceTwy> I still remember that time I tried to compile Chromium on it.
22:52:19 <iceTwy> Ran out of memory so it used the swap.
22:52:23 <iceTwy> Swap filled, used the HDD.
22:52:24 <iceTwy> Lmaoi
22:52:26 <iceTwy> Lmao*
22:52:27 <lady-3jane> THRASH THAT SHIT
22:52:31 <iceTwy> WHAT
22:52:44 <lady-3jane> cache thrashing :3
22:52:48 <iceTwy> oh
22:52:50 <iceTwy> hehe. :p
22:53:08 <lady-3jane> oh?
22:53:09 <iceTwy> if I don't get off this f** PC
22:53:15 <lady-3jane> haha :>
22:53:17 <iceTwy> asdfgh
22:53:22 <lady-3jane> I fixed my problems by turning swap off
22:53:22 <iceTwy> it's annoying.
22:53:30 <iceTwy> I don't have a swap on this PC.
22:53:34 <iceTwy> I have enough RAM.
22:53:42 <lady-3jane> funny, when I remove swap linux kernel finally understands memory management
22:54:14 <lady-3jane> I might turn on a tiny bit, like 256m or something
22:54:17 <lady-3jane> just for dicks
22:55:10 <iceTwy> bleh
22:55:12 <iceTwy> it's quite useless
22:55:40 <iceTwy> OKAY. Good night.
22:55:43 <lady-3jane> someday I will have 16g of ram
22:55:46 <lady-3jane> not today
22:55:57 <iceTwy> I wanted to have 32g for this PC.
22:56:02 <iceTwy> but then I lol'd cause it's useless.
22:56:20 <lady-3jane> 4g is far too little for me
22:56:23 <iceTwy> cuz it's DDR3 will
22:56:26 <iceTwy> woops
22:56:37 <lady-3jane> I burn through 4g just in chrome
22:56:41 <iceTwy> cuz DDR3 will be replaced by some DDR505050505 RAM in 2 years anyway.
22:56:51 <lady-3jane> why does 2 years matter?
22:57:01 <iceTwy> dunnoes
22:57:02 <lady-3jane> I've been running this pc for 5 now, and it ain't dead yet
22:57:20 <lady-3jane> the dualcore is starting to show its age though
22:57:25 <iceTwy> aye.
22:57:30 <lady-3jane> teeny little 3ghz amd
22:57:32 <iceTwy> dualcore.. is kinda old, yup
22:57:38 <lady-3jane> no hardware acceleration
22:57:43 <iceTwy> 4.5GHz i5 3570k..
22:57:50 <lady-3jane> 3770k <3
22:57:53 <lady-3jane> but yes
22:58:04 <lady-3jane> I want... whatever the new thing is
22:58:05 <iceTwy> the difference between 3570k and 3770k ain't worth 100€
22:58:09 <iceTwy> heh! so do I.
22:58:14 <lady-3jane> has second-generation aes acceleration
22:58:29 <lady-3jane> aes in hardware woooooooo~
22:58:31 <iceTwy> something I'd never use
22:58:34 <iceTwy> ;o
22:58:36 <lady-3jane> haha
22:58:40 <lady-3jane> I'd crypt my drives
22:58:50 <iceTwy> I need to do that as well yup.
22:58:53 <iceTwy> But it's too late.
22:59:00 <lady-3jane> because aes is in hardware, there is no perf difference between it and not-crypted
22:59:13 <iceTwy> My 100Gb stash of porn ain't getting deleted cuz I need to encrypt my HDD.
22:59:22 <iceTwy> (EXAGGERATED FIGURE)
22:59:23 <lady-3jane> wat
22:59:33 <lady-3jane> I have much more data than that, and none of it's porn :/
22:59:34 <iceTwy> no but.
22:59:44 <iceTwy> the matter is.
22:59:47 <iceTwy> all of my music's in FLAC.
22:59:55 <iceTwy> takes loooooooooooooots of space.
23:00:08 <iceTwy> would have nowhere to store it if I had to encrypt my drives
23:00:15 <iceTwy> and thus flush everything
23:00:42 <lady-3jane> you think my music isn't in flac?
23:00:49 <lady-3jane> NP: [High Tone - X-Ray] [Underground Wobble] [912kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
23:01:06 <lady-3jane> but I only have 200gb or so of music
23:01:09 <lady-3jane> NEEDS MOAR
23:01:34 <iceTwy> DeaDBeeF! <3
23:01:41 <iceTwy> but DeaDBeeF looks horrible with GTK2.
23:01:46 <iceTwy> and.. with XFCE, therefore.
23:01:53 <iceTwy> btw
23:01:58 <iceTwy> I have vinyl rips all over the place
23:02:05 <iceTwy> either 24-96 or 24-192
23:02:09 <iceTwy> those are just massive files
23:02:10 <iceTwy> really
23:02:20 <lady-3jane> ahh
23:02:25 <iceTwy> but the sound
23:02:26 <iceTwy> omfg
23:02:28 <iceTwy> eargasm
23:02:37 <lady-3jane> I don't keep the 24/96 stuff usually, sound hardware isn't fancy enough for it
23:02:44 <lady-3jane> headphones are, but I would need a proper soundcard
23:02:50 <iceTwy> so would I.
23:02:53 <iceTwy> but I plan on buying one
23:02:57 <lady-3jane> mmm
23:03:02 <iceTwy> in the 2010 decade
23:03:03 <iceTwy> hopefully
23:03:06 <lady-3jane> someday I'll get an external one or whatever
23:03:07 <iceTwy> if not, well, later
23:03:12 <iceTwy> ye..
23:03:15 <lady-3jane> shielded or whatever
23:03:19 <iceTwy> I'll buy an internal one I guess
23:03:24 <iceTwy> but first of all
23:03:27 <iceTwy> I need a new screen
23:03:35 <lady-3jane> there's some list of keywords for "good sound card" and I don't remember what they are
23:03:35 <iceTwy> I have 19,2" screen from 1999.
23:03:43 <lady-3jane> you're lucky
23:03:53 <iceTwy> hell
23:03:53 <iceTwy> no
23:03:55 <lady-3jane> I have a 17" screen from 1999, and it's an lcd even
23:03:58 <iceTwy> my PC's a beast
23:04:01 <iceTwy> heh! LCD as well.
23:04:10 <iceTwy> my PC's a beast and I have this utterly sh*tty screen.
23:04:11 <lady-3jane> older than the hills samsung
23:04:16 <lady-3jane> fuckin works, but that's about it
23:04:26 <iceTwy> lawl
23:04:32 <iceTwy> anyhow
23:04:34 <iceTwy> heading off to bed
23:04:38 <lady-3jane> sleep nignog
23:04:40 <lady-3jane> :)
23:04:43 <iceTwy> i'm supposed to have a philosophy test tomorrow
23:04:44 <iceTwy> hahahahaha
23:04:56 <iceTwy> had 4h of history/geography today.
23:04:57 <lady-3jane> kick rousseau's ass
23:05:05 <iceTwy> how'd you know I'm French?
23:05:12 <lady-3jane> hahaha, I didn't
23:05:15 <lady-3jane> but now I do
23:05:15 <lady-3jane> :D
23:05:16 <iceTwy> I didn't even say I eat baguette
23:05:18 <iceTwy> haha
23:05:20 <iceTwy> where are ya from?
23:05:26 <lady-3jane> usa :)
23:05:42 <lady-3jane> et je parle un peu de français :)
23:05:55 <iceTwy> génial !
23:06:06 <iceTwy> I'm trying to help an American friend with his French class.
23:06:13 <iceTwy> it's... entertaining.
23:06:29 <lady-3jane> hehe
23:06:31 <lady-3jane> yeahhhhh
23:06:41 <iceTwy> the last time
23:06:43 <iceTwy> a couple days ago
23:06:54 <iceTwy> he had to describe his clothing.
23:07:13 <lady-3jane> oh dear
23:07:15 <iceTwy> he twisted beige khackis and beige polo in all sorts of complicated ways
23:07:35 <iceTwy> good laugh tho
23:07:39 <lady-3jane> pas orange!? pas jeune!? pas bleu!? pffffff
23:07:48 <iceTwy> jaune* is the color
23:07:49 <iceTwy> yellow
23:07:50 <iceTwy> lmao
23:07:54 <lady-3jane> oh, woops
23:08:05 <lady-3jane> oh, I mispronounce those anyway
23:08:09 <iceTwy> heh
23:08:14 <iceTwy> common mistakes :3
23:08:15 <lady-3jane> june vs jawn
23:08:20 <iceTwy> herp
23:08:30 <lady-3jane> :P
23:08:36 <iceTwy> well
23:08:42 <iceTwy> i'd only make you feel better by saying that
23:08:43 <iceTwy> at 4
23:08:51 <lady-3jane> j'essayer :)
23:08:53 <iceTwy> when I was playing Diablo 2 online, w/
23:08:57 <lady-3jane> haha
23:09:09 <iceTwy> I couldn't figure out the difference between can and can't
23:09:22 <iceTwy> so I just randomly picked one
23:09:41 <iceTwy> but we had English classes early at school.. that helped.
23:09:50 <iceTwy> but for the own sake of my gratitude
23:09:50 <lady-3jane> :>
23:09:55 <iceTwy> I consider myself to be self taught
23:09:58 <iceTwy> hehehe.
23:10:00 <lady-3jane> lmao
23:10:08 <lady-3jane> how's your pronounciation?
23:10:13 <lady-3jane> how's your pronunciation?
23:10:17 <iceTwy> I've been in a gaming community for over a year
23:10:22 <lady-3jane> oh shit, there's no u
23:10:22 <iceTwy> constant use of TeamSpeak
23:10:28 <lady-3jane> er, o
23:10:30 <lady-3jane> huh
23:10:31 <iceTwy> so
23:10:38 <lady-3jane> not bad, then :)
23:10:40 <iceTwy> they say I have a really mixed accent.
23:10:42 <iceTwy> either
23:10:46 <iceTwy> British/French
23:10:49 <iceTwy> or South African even
23:10:59 <iceTwy> so I just guess my accent's unique
23:11:01 <lady-3jane> :>
23:11:02 <iceTwy> as for the pronunciation
23:11:08 <iceTwy> I still fail sometimes.
23:11:16 <lady-3jane> It's cool :P
23:11:20 <iceTwy> I don't properly stress some words
23:11:22 <iceTwy> but heh.
23:12:01 <iceTwy> for the 12342435245th time
23:12:04 <iceTwy> good night! :D
23:12:04 <lady-3jane> aller s'endormir :)
23:12:09 <iceTwy> hah! true!
23:12:11 <iceTwy> bonne nuit!
23:12:15 <lady-3jane> bonne nuit :)
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23:20:12 <lady-3jane> holy fuck is spdy nice when my internet works
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23:43:46 <crytocc-c> "What happens if your pain isn't better in an hour" -> "I'll get a baseball bat"
23:43:49 <crytocc-c> LOL CAN'T STOP LAUGHING!
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