Cryto! 14 May 2013
00:01:12 <joepie91> week... has... passed... must... update... firefox... major version....
00:02:36 <monod> hahahah
00:02:38 <monod> really
00:02:43 <monod> joepie91
00:02:54 <monod> tell me when you'll have a diaspora account
00:03:05 <monod> I've already followed the #crytocc tag :D
00:03:15 <joepie91> perhaps I'll make one some time
00:03:16 <joepie91> :p
00:03:21 <monod> alright
00:04:00 <monod> is it a good idea in your opinion to link it to the facebook's account? just to spread it and increase its viewability?
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00:04:13 <monod> or visibility, don't know
00:04:18 <monod> (in eng)
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01:31:11 <lady-3jane> oh joepie91 shut up. updates every 6 weeks are vastly better than a release every 9months. that was so bad. talk about glacial pace of features.
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01:35:20 <lady-3jane> I'm excited about ff22, it's gonna have the new cookie defaults
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01:35:32 <lady-3jane> ff24 is gonna be a great esr
01:38:32 <joepie91> lady-3jane: 6 week updates are okay (faster is better)
01:38:39 <joepie91> it's just the version numbering that I'm a bit iffy about
01:38:39 <joepie91> :P
01:38:42 <joepie91> anyway, sleep
01:38:43 <joepie91> night all
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01:50:21 <twitchyliquid64> joepie91: sorry, im far to busy with uni to do any coding work
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12:24:01 <joepie91> twitchyliquid64: k :(
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14:49:21 <zxcvbnm> morning
14:50:35 <zxcvbnm> Hey I'm trying to see if there isa way to connect to computers on my network that have Bonjour installed
14:50:48 <zxcvbnm> To see if there is an issue or not with people installing it on their comps
14:51:11 <joepie91> Bonjour... what was that again
14:51:19 <zxcvbnm> But I have only found a few tools to help me, and am not sure of other methods to attach/utilize the Bonjour
14:51:22 <zxcvbnm> (samba)
14:51:34 <zxcvbnm> Comes packaged with iTunes I believe, Apple uses it for file sharing
14:51:36 <joepie91> Bonjour == Samba, Apple-flavoured?
14:51:39 <zxcvbnm> ya
14:51:42 <joepie91> hrm
14:51:46 <joepie91> kill it with fire, I'd say
14:51:55 <zxcvbnm> That's how I feel.. but I need some hard evidence
14:52:03 <joepie91> Bonjour is Apple's implementation of Zero configuration networking (Zeroconf), a group of technologies that includes service discovery, address assignment, and hostname resolution. Bonjour locates devices such as printers, other computers, and the services that those devices offer on a local network using multicast Domain Name System (mDNS) service records.
14:52:04 <joepie91> heh
14:52:17 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: kill Bonjour == iTunes stops working
14:52:18 <joepie91> fyi
14:52:23 <joepie91> at least that's how it used to be
14:52:35 <zxcvbnm> Yeah, I think this is true.
14:52:41 <zxcvbnm> But, fuck iTunes :)
14:52:46 <joepie91> try songbird
14:52:49 <joepie91> :D
14:52:55 <zxcvbnm> I don't use it. So, doesn't matter to me
14:53:02 <joepie91> if anyone else complains
14:53:07 <joepie91> tell them to use songbird
14:53:11 <joepie91> if it's still open-source that is
14:53:25 <zxcvbnm> Do you remember when iTunes had that statement at the bottom of their Terms of Service that said, "I won't use this software to make weapons of mass destruction."
14:53:28 <zxcvbnm> ?
14:53:30 <joepie91> well, apparently not, wtf
14:53:40 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: I've never used itunes actively enough
14:53:43 <joepie91> to notice such a thing
14:53:43 <joepie91> lol
14:53:45 <zxcvbnm> hehehe
14:53:46 <zxcvbnm> it was really funny :D
14:53:51 <zxcvbnm> It was ALL the way at the bottom, almost the last thing in the ToS
14:54:11 <joepie91> Songbird at one point also supported Solaris and Linux; however this support was dropped. As a result, users have forked Songbird and created a Windows, Mac, and Linux compatible derivative under the name Nightingale.
14:54:11 <joepie91> Sometime during late 2012 or early 2013, Songbird's public SVN was taken down, along with their wiki and other source code related utilities. A survey later sent out via twitter by Songbird suggests that POTI is closing the desktop player source code, planning to later sell an updated version, fixing many outstanding bugs and feature requests by users who have been ignored for years.
14:54:17 <joepie91> wow, now that has gone to shit
14:54:42 <zxcvbnm> The Apple software is not intended for use in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, life support machines, or other equipment in which the failure of the Apple software could lead to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage.
14:54:45 <joepie91> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightingale_(software)
14:54:49 <zxcvbnm> .including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture, or production of nuclear missiles or chemical or biological weapons.
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14:54:51 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: lol
14:55:26 <zxcvbnm> They must've put some powerful algorithms in there to think Nuclear scientists would use it to run their plants
14:55:52 <zxcvbnm> Honestly, I use Pandora when i listen to music. =/
14:56:01 <zxcvbnm> When I want to hear something specific.. I go to youtube
14:56:08 <joepie91> I usually use Listen or VK
14:56:09 <joepie91> anyway
14:56:16 <joepie91> I decided that none of the media players really does what I want
14:56:22 <joepie91> I like RadioTray but it only does internet radios
14:56:41 <joepie91> so I thought "well, fuck it, why not... I had to experiment with GTK and Gstreamer anyway so I might as well write my own tray-based media player"
14:56:42 <joepie91> so yeah
14:56:51 <zxcvbnm> You were probably a winamp user like me back in the late 90s
14:56:51 <joepie91> that's what I'm messing around with now
14:56:51 <joepie91> :p
14:56:55 <joepie91> no, actually
14:57:03 <joepie91> I used Sonique
14:57:14 <zxcvbnm> Sonique hmmm do I remember that
14:57:18 <joepie91> I had Winamp a few times, but it was not my main player
14:57:19 <joepie91> Sonique <3
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14:57:31 <zxcvbnm> whoa lol
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14:57:44 <zxcvbnm> Sonique is also a black model, so, I typed that in at my work comp woops
14:57:50 * zxcvbnm image.googles.com sonique music player
14:57:55 <joepie91> hahaha
14:57:57 <joepie91> also, http://owely.com/7vM6uU
14:58:15 <zxcvbnm> your player ?
14:58:27 <joepie91> well, working on UI now
14:58:31 <joepie91> using Glade
14:58:32 <zxcvbnm> What is this. Glade?
14:58:38 <joepie91> yes
14:58:39 <zxcvbnm> Ive never used Glade
14:58:39 <joepie91> Glade
14:58:42 <joepie91> it's kind of awesome
14:58:52 <zxcvbnm> if I had to guess... I'd guess its open source ?
14:58:55 <joepie91> a bit like the visual studio form editor
14:58:55 <joepie91> but better
14:58:59 <joepie91> yes
14:59:01 <joepie91> it's for GTK
14:59:11 * zxcvbnm remind sjoepie91 that I'm still a noob developer
14:59:17 <joepie91> you familiar with gtk?
14:59:27 <zxcvbnm> Sort of.. I've seen it, and I think compiled a fwe things w/ it
14:59:31 <zxcvbnm> but, no not really
14:59:40 <joepie91> it's a UI toolkit, originally made for The GIMP
14:59:46 <joepie91> and ironically, GTK is very well-designed, as opposed to GIMP
14:59:47 <joepie91> but hey
14:59:49 <joepie91> anyway
14:59:55 <joepie91> it's the main UI toolkit used in GNOME
14:59:59 <joepie91> (KDE primarily uses QT)
15:00:20 <joepie91> basically, if you're running a GNOME or XFCE targeted application, it's probably written with GTK
15:00:34 <joepie91> current version is GTK+ 3
15:00:50 <joepie91> and this is where you go to learn how to GTK3 + Python: http://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
15:01:08 <zxcvbnm> ahhh so it is a GUI toolkit
15:01:16 <zxcvbnm> I see I see
15:01:17 <joepie91> yes
15:01:21 * zxcvbnm heard you say that
15:01:25 <joepie91> :P
15:01:26 * zxcvbnm but isnow registering it
15:01:36 <zxcvbnm> I'm only a quarter through my coffee
15:01:46 <joepie91> heh
15:01:59 <joepie91> caffeine addiction!
15:02:01 <joepie91> anyway
15:02:04 <joepie91> GTK is quite awesome
15:02:08 <joepie91> it's really really really well-designed
15:02:09 <zxcvbnm> Just to get my brain kickstarted in the morning
15:02:15 <joepie91> everything just makes sense, so to say
15:02:37 <zxcvbnm> I love it when software is like that
15:02:52 <joepie91> example: GTK uses an MVC-ish model for treeviews and listviews
15:02:52 <zxcvbnm> Have you used Android phones? I know you said you don't have one
15:03:04 <joepie91> you have a treestore or liststore that holds the _actual_ data
15:03:11 <joepie91> and a treeview that _maps_ certain columns to that data
15:03:23 <joepie91> so you can fuck around with the display without ever touching the actual data
15:03:28 <joepie91> that's far harder to do in for example .NET forms
15:03:35 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: I've used one, at times
15:03:36 <joepie91> why?
15:04:09 <zxcvbnm> I feel that way about android OS, it makes sense. If I imagine that I should be able to hold down my finger and it will pop up a right click w/ properties, it is there
15:04:20 <zxcvbnm> It is very intuitive, makes lots of sense
15:04:42 <joepie91> meh
15:04:43 <zxcvbnm> Recently -- I've been less impressed, but historically speaking, it is closer to the flow of a computer than iOS
15:04:45 <joepie91> Android is okay
15:04:52 <joepie91> but I far prefer Ubuntu phone from what I've seen
15:04:55 <joepie91> in terms of makes-sense-iness
15:05:07 <zxcvbnm> That's surprising! :P
15:05:14 <joepie91> Android always feels a bit clunky to me
15:05:16 <zxcvbnm> You.... would prefer an Ubuntu phone? nahhh
15:05:20 <joepie91> as if they weren't quite sure how to do X
15:05:22 <joepie91> so they just did Y
15:05:40 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: my complaints about Ubuntu have been two-fold, actually
15:05:43 <joepie91> 1. it breaks on updates
15:05:48 <joepie91> 2. the UI is completely unsuitable for a desktop
15:05:58 <zxcvbnm> The new Android OS feels a bit clunky on phones, but .. I think its "Jelly Bean" that they have on the Nexus 7 is pretty lightweihgt
15:06:05 <joepie91> and seeing as a phone is not something that has as many variables and that you update as frequently, point 1 is rendered invalid
15:06:11 <joepie91> and seeing as it's not a desktop, so is point 2
15:06:12 <joepie91> :P
15:06:20 <zxcvbnm> Well I have many complaints about Ubuntu
15:06:27 <joepie91> my complaints are with desktop ubuntu, I'm not going to be thick and immediately bitch about everything that carries the name 'ubuntu'
15:06:28 <joepie91> :P
15:06:29 <zxcvbnm> When they got away from... Lucid Lynx I believe
15:06:51 <joepie91> (also, with clunky I mean clunky to use, not laggy)
15:07:00 <zxcvbnm> Sure.
15:09:16 <zxcvbnm> guess what I found on our company wiki yesterday ?
15:09:53 <joepie91> a rotten egg?
15:09:54 <zxcvbnm> I found over 30 separate pages where people had listed out usernames and passwords to various 3rd party vendors, websites, service accounts....
15:09:55 <joepie91> a GPL violation?
15:10:02 <joepie91> a moving balloon?
15:10:07 <joepie91> ... oh
15:10:08 <joepie91> lol
15:10:20 <zxcvbnm> :P well I know what comes to your head first
15:10:41 <zxcvbnm> and I hardly think a rotten egg would be sittinga round on a wiki
15:10:49 <joepie91> well hey, who knows!
15:11:15 * zxcvbnm googled "rotten egg wikipedia" just to make sure
15:12:09 <zxcvbnm> did you read that article yesterday about Saudi Arabia's mobile app interception program ?
15:12:21 <joepie91> no?
15:12:36 <zxcvbnm> http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/saudi-surveillance/
15:12:58 <zxcvbnm> This guy is cool, I've seen him around at a couple conferences
15:13:10 <joepie91> ahhh, thoughtcrime
15:13:22 <zxcvbnm> I assumed you'd be familiar at least w/ his tools
15:14:29 <joepie91> actually, I'm more familiar with his writing :)
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15:17:55 <joepie91> "There are still outliers, such as Anonymous (to the extent that it's possible to be sympathetic with an unguided missile) [...])
15:17:59 <joepie91> unsurprisingly, he gets it
15:18:14 <joepie91> and is probably one of the 3 people or so that is involved in security/cracking/etc that does
15:18:53 <joepie91> (while the rest is still running around like a headless chicken, shouting how Anonymous is a 'threat' or a 'terrorist group' or a 'group' at all...)
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15:21:57 <joepie91> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with-care-Microsoft-is-reading-everything-you-write-1862870.html
15:21:57 <joepie91> whee
15:28:20 <zxcvbnm> lol sorry I was reading an article about that American "spy" who got "caught" by Russia
15:28:54 <zxcvbnm> Looks like a clown spy if you ask me.
15:29:14 <zxcvbnm> Looks like he was trying really hard to get caught. and that alleged "letter" that he wrote the FSB operative looked more like a Nigerian Wealth scam
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15:51:11 <zxcvbnm> joepie91: btw, when I read that article yesterday, I found the same quote interesting (the one about outliers & anonymous)
15:51:19 <zxcvbnm> Overall, I really liked his perspective
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18:10:08 <zxcvbnm> I wonder if mama is having issues
18:11:27 <mama> yes i have
18:11:40 <mama> :D sorry
18:17:29 <zxcvbnm> np just curious
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19:52:32 <lady-3jane> zxcvbnm:) joepie91 yay moxie :D
19:52:49 <lady-3jane> scroll through scrollback, see thoughtcrime :D
19:53:02 <lady-3jane> moxie! moxie! moxie! Oy! Oy! Oy!
19:54:15 <lady-3jane> oh and joepie91: that thing with skype makes sense, since yahoo messenger, aolim, and msnmessenger used to do that too. catching chat urls is a great way to seed a malware scanner.
19:54:45 <lady-3jane> doesn't make it any less creepy, but it makes sense
19:55:09 <lady-3jane> I absolutely love compiling all of qt for a single app
19:55:20 <lady-3jane> I fucking hate that mumble needs qt for murmur
19:55:32 <lady-3jane> because it uses qt networking
20:03:12 <AnonForecast> O.O
20:04:08 <lady-3jane> and qt is fucking massive
20:04:10 <lady-3jane> it's 300mb of source compressed
20:04:34 <lady-3jane> little bit fancy for my silly little singlecore amd box
20:04:37 <lady-3jane> :P
20:05:01 <joepie91> lady-3jane: except it only grabbed HTTPS URLs and not HTTP
20:05:08 <joepie91> so that kind of defuses the malware argument...
20:05:26 <lady-3jane> oh, I didn't see that
20:05:31 <lady-3jane> that's interesting, I wonder what for
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20:05:52 <lady-3jane> cause I know msn messenger used to grab all pasted urls
20:06:01 <lady-3jane> it was how I could tell my urls were being shared via chat
20:06:50 <joepie91> lady-3jane: yup, and it blocked certain domains altogether
20:07:13 <lady-3jane> hmm
20:07:25 <lady-3jane> china's... skype clone (tomtom?) does that
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20:11:20 <zxcvbnm> ya
20:11:21 <zxcvbnm> whats up with that
20:11:28 <zxcvbnm> with blocking certain domains and only HTTPS
20:11:30 * zxcvbnm w0nders
20:14:33 <zxcvbnm> I mean, I understand the basic targeting premise of it
20:14:46 <zxcvbnm> They are looking for encrypted info. But what, exactly, I'm not sure
20:15:04 <zxcvbnm> Why they would explicitly block domains
20:15:18 <zxcvbnm> They assume a certain trust level w/ them
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