Cryto! 11 May 2013

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10:54:37 <joepie91>
10:54:47 <joepie91> "Most people would agree that individuals and institutions in general should have the right to limit access to proprietary information, or charge for access to content they own."
10:54:49 <joepie91> this article would get blasted on wikipedia for [citation needed] and [weasel words]
10:54:58 <joepie91> also, see
10:57:32 <MK_FG> Yeah, same "central power-point went nuts" problem, it seems
10:58:03 <MK_FG> They fought flash for years and plan to add +1 black-box-proprietary-plugin interface to play videos, yay!
10:59:40 <joepie91> MK_FG: I find it interesting how that one sentence I quoted, sounds like it was copypasted straight out of a corporate PR machine
10:59:50 <joepie91> makes me wonder who is really coordinating this stuff
11:02:32 <MK_FG> I think discussions on w3c ml's about that thing are quite public
11:02:42 <MK_FG> So you can get all the names of people who advocate it
11:02:53 <joepie91> that's not really what I mean
11:02:55 <MK_FG> (...and go house-to-house with a shotgun)
11:03:13 <joepie91> think "corporate guy standing behind mailinglist contributor, handing over bag of monies"
11:03:36 <MK_FG> I'd still blame the contributor alone
11:03:52 <joepie91> if past events in entertainment-industry-world are any indication, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that industry tried to bribe at the very least one active contributor
11:04:41 <MK_FG> Sure, but if contributor is that much of a scumbag, it's not much of their fault
11:04:58 <MK_FG> He might've as well betrayed everything he stood for for an ice cream
11:05:10 <MK_FG> Or just on an impulse, who the hell knows
11:05:14 <joepie91> not sure I'd call that scumbag
11:05:24 <joepie91> people are corruptible pretty much by nature
11:06:21 <MK_FG> I consider pushing this proposal a scumbag-move if person is aware of how the web works
11:07:26 <MK_FG> Indeed, corruption is probably irrelevant here ;)
11:07:57 <MK_FG> It doesn't matter why they do it from that simplistic point of view
11:08:25 <MK_FG> ...or who backs the thing with how much cash
11:09:08 <MK_FG> But to fight the thing it's definitely not a good model of thinking
11:09:20 <MK_FG> s/good/useful/
11:19:38 <MK_FG> Is psyc any good?
11:20:42 <MK_FG> The featureset of the thing looks kinda awesome, and apparently it has seen a bit of attention in zeroes, why didn't it kill irc yet?
12:23:20 <joepie91> psyc?
12:26:57 <MK_FG>
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12:30:52 <joepie91> MK_FG: from reading the introduction, I'd imagine that the reason for it not killing IRC, is that IRC seems far simpler
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12:55:41 <MK_FG> But but... compatibility with both irc/xmpp/nntp/email/sip/whatever clients, teh p2p, supernodes, multicast, encryption, efficiency, assymetric subscriptions, ...
12:55:53 <MK_FG> Yah, it's damn too complex to even dream of ;)
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13:54:02 <DrWhat_> :/
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15:39:17 <lady-3jane> MK_FG:) psyc suffers from lack of marketshare more than complexity
15:39:33 <lady-3jane> but, such is the same with all of the really top techs
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15:40:20 <MK_FG> There's an enterprise psyc - ;P
15:41:12 <lady-3jane> mmm, maybe it works better?
15:41:15 * lady-3jane said pas
15:41:17 * lady-3jane sais pas
15:43:53 <joepie91> ne sais pas?
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15:47:07 <monod> how the heck
15:47:11 <monod>
15:47:26 <joepie91> ?
15:47:46 <monod> is the most up-to-date accessible leak archive in the web, or am I wrong?
15:48:00 <joepie91> disputable whether it's a leak archive
15:49:20 <monod> what definition would you give?
15:49:33 <monod> or suggest
15:49:34 <joepie91> it's more a... store of controversial and compromising documents
15:49:35 <joepie91> :)
15:51:03 <monod> I guest that since it's still up to date and up&running, there's the impression that those informations and docs are not of a high interest
15:51:43 <monod> or do they contain very sensitive information that just travel through the internet with this site?
15:51:52 <monod> (which seems.. unrealistic)
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15:56:47 <joepie91> monod: it seems that most documents hosted on cryptome, are documents that *someone* doesn't want online, but that aren't sensitive enough to warrant a coordinated effort to take down the site
15:57:03 <joepie91> also, since they're generally individual documents, it's less likely that an attempt at causing an anti-cryptome mob occurs
15:57:32 <joepie91> it's much harder to convince someone that cryptome is evil, than it is to convince someone that julian assanfge and/or wikileaks are evil
15:57:39 <joepie91> assange *
15:59:35 <joepie91> hey look
15:59:39 <joepie91> the obsama guy got subpoenad
16:01:12 <MK_FG> obsama ;)
16:02:07 <monod> subpoenad?
16:02:27 <joepie91> as in, Twitter received a subpoena for his account
16:02:33 <joepie91> for a 'death threat investigation'
16:02:35 <joepie91> why am I not surprised
16:02:56 * joepie91 has stopped counting the amount of threats and insults he has received from lzr9
16:05:11 <monod> oh, summoning witness. and my f****** firefox 3 crashed aaaalll the way out, eating all the tabs I was reading... :anger:
16:06:16 <Matrix> get a addon which actually saves them?
16:06:44 <monod> does it exist? :/
16:06:54 <Matrix> i have a theory
16:07:00 <Matrix> nobody is alone in a problem
16:07:06 <Matrix> you aint the only one with that problem
16:07:14 <Matrix> conclusion: Someone have solved the problem
16:07:18 <MK_FG> They seem to be preserved here on crashes
16:07:25 <Matrix>
16:07:43 <MK_FG> (crashes = segfaults)
16:08:21 <MK_FG> I think it's either TabMix Plus or TabGroups Manager that help, if not ff itself
16:09:04 <monod> in a way, your theory may have foundation, in the practical world
16:09:25 <monod> and, are you sure MK_FG that you are using firefox 3 and not firefox 20010231021? :D
16:09:34 <monod> (like, ff19 or ff20)
16:09:50 <MK_FG> Oh, true, it's not ff3 of course ;)
16:09:55 <MK_FG> ff19
16:10:26 <MK_FG> I think ff20 broke something for me, gotta try again now that addons had time to update...
16:11:10 <MK_FG> monod, Why do you use ff3?
16:11:19 <monod> debian.. :D and D:
16:11:23 <monod> XD
16:11:35 <monod> oh, I checked out GNU's homepage for the n-th time
16:11:44 <monod> I discovered GNU's sponsored linux distros
16:11:56 <monod> and why other distros are not GNU's sponsored (yet)
16:11:59 <monod> in more detail
16:12:04 <monod> it's veeeeeery itneresting
16:12:06 <monod> and also
16:12:24 <monod> huuuuuge new
16:12:26 <monod>
16:12:40 <monod> I didn't know about this, did you? :D
16:12:45 <MK_FG> I'd think that gnu just doesn't have enough money to sponsor every ragtag distro out there
16:12:57 <joepie91> aaaah, I'd been looking for Telex
16:13:00 <joepie91> but forgot what it was called
16:13:14 <monod> here's your savior/angel, joepie91 8)
16:13:17 <monod> lol
16:13:18 <joepie91> thanks :P
16:15:11 <joepie91> also
16:15:17 <joepie91> seeing dynebolic reminds me
16:15:18 <joepie91>
16:15:29 <joepie91> if he's ever in your area, be sure to try and meet up with him, he's an awesome guy
16:15:30 <MK_FG> Infografic looks simple, but leaves a question of who hosts these "friendly telex proxies"
16:16:45 <monod> only trusted (alley) ISPs
16:16:58 <monod> such ISPs that fight for the same cause
16:17:10 <monod> I can't think of ANY atm
16:18:01 <monod> I can do 2 things now: study or go out with the sweeeet sunshine that there's out here.
16:18:29 <monod> oh well, 3 things, the third: do none of the above and stay still at the pc :D
16:20:10 <MK_FG> Sunshine sounds best
16:20:52 <MK_FG> And you know you want that more than pc if you bother enough to notice ;)
16:21:59 <monod> hahahahaha
16:22:31 <monod> the fact is that... metheorological forecasts told today was to rain
16:22:55 <monod> I ain't seen any single drop of water.
16:23:06 <monod> lulz
16:23:11 <MK_FG> Pity, it's even more awesome right after rain
16:24:18 <monod> it depends if you are or aren't surrounded by mud :P
16:24:30 <monod> I think I'm gonna taste some air then
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18:03:52 <ryan> joepie91: yt?
19:13:19 <joepie91> ryan: hai, yes
19:13:27 <ryan> i have a question
19:13:33 <ryan> how the fuck do I quote people on LET
19:13:48 <joepie91> oh
19:13:55 <joepie91> you select text, and click the 'quote' button that pops up
19:14:03 <joepie91> just select all text in a post to quote the entire post
19:14:20 <joepie91> (it bugs sometimes, in which case just refresh the page... most of the time it works very well)
19:14:40 <joepie91> it's a bit of a strange method, but when you get used to it, it's much more pleasant than quote icons :)
19:15:33 <ryan> o
19:15:45 <ryan> its probably because of shit osx browser thing
19:18:39 <joepie91> possibly
19:18:40 <joepie91> anyway
19:18:42 <joepie91> ryan, fallback:
19:18:52 <joepie91> just copypaste sentences and make sure there's an > in front of every paragraph
19:18:58 <joepie91> (that's the Markdown quote format)
19:19:52 <ryan> o
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19:27:31 <joepie91> whee, there we go
19:27:32 <joepie91>
19:27:46 <monod> grub pkbdf2 password 1 monod 0
19:28:00 <joepie91> cc MK_FG, ryan, Ari, Matrix, Ishaq, monod, vld, wh1t3r4bb1t, twitchyliquid64, and other potentially interested parties
19:28:14 <joepie91> monod: heh, what'd it do? :P
19:30:20 <monod> i'm trying to setup a password for anyone who would want to change my boot loader init string U_U
19:30:32 <monod> because is a *true* security risk
19:30:42 <monod> even though, here at home... :D it's not a real risk
19:30:43 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) did you forget me?
19:30:44 <lady-3jane> :D
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19:31:37 <joepie91> huh, idk, somehow I overlooked your presence
19:31:39 <joepie91> hai pzuraq
19:31:41 <lady-3jane> yay kiki's delivery service and my neighbor totoro
19:31:43 <lady-3jane> :D
19:31:46 <ryan> joepie91: meh
19:31:50 <ryan> there's really nothing new there
19:31:51 <joepie91> you will probably find interesting as well
19:31:52 <lady-3jane> in 1080 >:D
19:31:54 <Ari> joepie91: whelp, nice to know
19:32:00 <joepie91> ryan: aware, but first good write-up I've seen
19:32:04 <Ari> It's kinda funny
19:32:09 <joepie91> honestly, I found it smelt fishy from the start
19:32:12 <joepie91> (and said as much...)
19:32:14 <Ari> currencies like that are hard to make profit on
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19:32:17 <joepie91> smelt, smelled, ?
19:32:17 <Ari> any decentralized currency is
19:32:17 <ryan> joepie91: but it doesn't really deserve a write up
19:32:20 <lady-3jane> I'm glad everyone else is as apprehensive about ripple as me
19:32:23 <joepie91> what's the proper past tense?
19:32:24 <Ari> the real money is in selling the equipment to the miners
19:32:27 <lady-3jane> smelled
19:32:29 <Ari> same thing happened with the gold rush
19:32:30 <joepie91> k, thanks :P
19:32:39 <Ari> The miners went broke
19:32:46 <lady-3jane> smelt is heating metal :)
19:32:46 <Ari> but the suppliers and store owners got rich
19:32:48 <joepie91> ryan: idk, it's being heralded as "the awesome overlay for bitcoin"
19:32:53 <joepie91> about time that someone debunked a few claims
19:32:58 <joepie91> in a comprehensive manner
19:33:32 <ryan> well true
19:37:43 <monod> I don't get if there's something other than the fact that Ripple was an alternative digital currency, pretending to be like bitcoins (open-source, decentralized, ...) but, at the end, found to just not being like that
19:37:59 <monod> I got distracted by a person here
19:40:17 <monod> love this!
19:40:20 <monod> "The limitless “debt is money” model is inherently flawed because debt is not worth as much as money it represents. For a successful currency system, you need to send solid money – when either that’s USD in a bank insured by the US Govt where the risk is nearly none, or bitcoins proven on the public and decentralized blockchain. Not random debt."
19:41:12 <monod> aaaand, btw...
19:41:25 <monod> I discovered that our linux distros are not 100% open source!
19:41:41 <monod> there are also some binary codes in them!
19:42:32 <monod> which are intended to provide peripherals drivers, but.. eh, try and check it!
19:44:31 <ryan> There needs to be a xmpp client that supports OTR and runs entirely in browser
19:51:47 <lady-3jane> to me, the problem of "debt is money" is a much smaller problem than "we have >1 set of rules to play by with money"
19:52:33 <lady-3jane> because if everything's cool for everyone, and debt is money, I can just go play in derivitives or something
19:52:46 <lady-3jane> but that's not feasible :|
19:53:28 <lady-3jane> to me coherent, regular, well enforced rules are more important than what the rules actually are
19:54:02 <lady-3jane> I found it strange that you can trade a car you haven't finished paying the loan on, for another car
19:54:39 <lady-3jane> but apparently that's possible
19:54:58 <lady-3jane> and it seems we're getting to the point where if someone says it can be done and others believe them, it can
19:55:20 <lady-3jane> which leads me to think consistency of the system is more important than other things
19:57:13 <lady-3jane> we think of money like ACID compliance, but banks run BASE compliant... and perhaps that's the disconnect between our view of money and how the economy appears to work
19:57:35 <lady-3jane> BASE (Basically Available, Soft state, Eventual consistency),
19:57:44 <lady-3jane> ACID (Atomicity, Consistency, Isolation, Durability)
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20:04:40 * lady-3jane puts into wordpress for later development
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21:12:43 <monod> midori
21:12:56 <monod> codename for a new microsoft's OS
21:13:03 <monod> still "secret"
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21:21:42 <lady-3jane> midori? wasn't that their C# experimental os from 2003?
21:22:13 <lady-3jane> every piece of hardware was a userspace process iirc
21:22:16 <lady-3jane> neat idea
21:23:08 <lady-3jane> singularity, it seems
21:23:09 <lady-3jane> :D
21:24:24 <monod> yeah, that's!
21:24:49 <monod> at this time of the day my neurons does not connect well
21:24:50 <monod> :S
21:24:58 <lady-3jane> hehe
21:25:28 <monod> there's definitely too much to see
21:25:29 <monod> on internet
21:25:48 <monod> for example, you can browse cryptome searching for whatever
21:26:04 <monod> the only thing - you have to know english
21:26:05 <monod> that's all
21:26:21 <lady-3jane> :>
21:26:28 <monod> got to go to bed before I fall to the floor sleeping
21:26:30 <monod> damn
21:26:43 <lady-3jane> hahaha pass out, wake up early
21:26:45 <lady-3jane> gogogo
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21:27:26 <lady-3jane> oh shit
21:27:26 <lady-3jane>
21:27:33 <lady-3jane> hahahahaha fuck yeah
21:49:53 <mama> Meeting tomorrow at #ideas for the new chat system project, at 11pm GMT, you will finally know what is it and likely make tests
21:53:38 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) if my laptop won't even post, it's probably dead right
21:54:11 <lady-3jane> power button -> power light, numlock and scrolllock lights turn on, and nothing else. screen never lights, no vendor logo.
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22:07:46 <lady-3jane> lag monster eats my face
22:24:49 <joepie91> lady-3jane: uh
22:24:57 <joepie91> very easy way to find out
22:24:59 <joepie91> disconnect your screen
22:25:01 <joepie91> see if it does the same
22:25:12 <joepie91> if it still does the exact same, the cause may just be broken screen
22:25:15 <joepie91> :P
22:25:33 <joepie91> (protip: a lot of laptop-ish hardware will refuse to POST if one or more critical components are disconnected)
22:25:38 <joepie91> (so check your connecitons)
22:26:00 <joepie91> <monod>I discovered that our linux distros are not 100% open source!
22:26:00 <joepie91> <monod>there are also some binary codes in them!
22:26:02 <joepie91> it depends
22:26:07 <joepie91> there _are_ fully free distros
22:26:11 <joepie91> but they're mostly hell to use
22:26:28 <joepie91> <ryan>There needs to be a xmpp client that supports OTR and runs entirely in browser
22:26:33 <joepie91> this introduces the cryptocat problem
22:26:48 <joepie91> where you can never be sure that the client code that is served to you is genuine and wasn't modified in the past few seconds
22:27:42 <lady-3jane> er, how do I disconnect my screen
22:27:55 <lady-3jane> this is an asus, not a dell, so the cord isn't just under the keyboard flap :|
22:29:33 <lady-3jane> cryptocat did a very good job of mitigating that problem as best as can currently be done
22:29:41 <lady-3jane> but I wouldn't call it "sufficiently mitigated"
22:32:56 <lady-3jane> as much of a punk as nadim can be, I admire his tenacity to see how well it can be done
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22:38:07 <MK_FG> "in browser" via extension is actually quite feasible, since there's access to js-ctypes and one can just require/use libpurple and libotr from the system
22:38:29 <MK_FG> (or bundle these for all arches/os'es maybe)
22:41:24 <joepie91> then it's... not really a purely browser thing anymore :P
22:42:06 <MK_FG> Well, if it quacks like in-browser, then I say it's a duck ;)
22:42:29 <joepie91> you can make that argument when Python runs in your browser :P
22:42:50 <MK_FG> And it does!
22:43:07 <joepie91> it... does?
22:43:13 <MK_FG> All addons I've looked at used ctypes for something
22:43:29 <MK_FG> So that's kinda arbitrary line
22:44:22 <MK_FG> I imagine one can use libpython and write 99% of the addon in python
22:44:40 <MK_FG> And there's js-python thing somethere iirc
22:44:45 <MK_FG> So it does!
22:45:52 <MK_FG> hur hur
22:46:52 <lady-3jane> joepie91 is currently blowing jizz all over his immediate vicinity
22:47:07 <MK_FG> too, wow, I didn't think it was that popular a thing to run python in-browser ;)
22:47:25 <lady-3jane> if the users don't know any different :D
22:47:53 <joepie91> MK_FG: wasn't pyjs like slow and incomplete?
22:48:02 <MK_FG> No idea!
22:48:35 <MK_FG> Just ran "js python" query in ddg to see if it's a thing
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23:43:08 <joepie91> mfw I find out that sells Creatures 2
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23:55:51 <joepie91> .bitcoin
23:55:52 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $115.68, 1 BTC = €88.80