Cryto! 15 April 2013

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03:13:35 <HiveResearch> don't watch We Are Legion - it brings massive sad
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06:20:55 <ryan> hey
06:21:05 <ryan> I spoke about
06:21:08 <ryan> how linode wasn't too secure
06:21:40 <ryan> and since they refused to go with out deal of non-disclosure
06:22:15 <ryan> more in HTP5
06:24:13 <HiveResearch> careers kill skills
06:37:36 <lady-3jane> time for bed
06:37:47 <lady-3jane> I read some john locke and accidentally shat 1100 words
06:38:13 <lady-3jane> tomorrow morning will be a rewrite and expansion to the desired page count
06:38:16 <HiveResearch> lawlz
06:38:36 <lady-3jane> (2 pages, single spaced)
06:38:41 <lady-3jane> nothing fancy
06:38:47 <lady-3jane> just need about another half page I think
06:39:00 <lady-3jane> which won't be hard, some of my things need clarifying, but it's too late to do that
06:39:37 * lady-3jane pops to bed
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09:07:18 <devslashrnd> .bitcoin
09:07:19 <botpie91> 1 BTC = $91.00, 1 BTC = €70.00
10:41:58 <MK_FG> Did anyone heard anything bad or good about Abine Inc.?
10:42:37 <MK_FG> I was surprised to find that a number of (fairly known) privacy addons for ff seem to have migrated under that umbrella -
10:43:17 <MK_FG> Iirc GoogleSharing was by moxie marlinspike at the beginning, yet now it's Abine's...
10:44:26 <MK_FG> Sounds fishy
10:50:30 <devslashrnd> havent heard of any of those plugins. have a look on collusion, its not only blockin trackers, its drawin a nice graph of how they are connected to each other. sometimes a way to show the "whatever-guys" something bout their privacy
10:51:20 <devslashrnd>
10:52:44 <MK_FG> Yeah, I heard about it, though using Ghostery myself, dunno how they compare wrt lists of stuff they block
10:55:28 <devslashrnd> im usin ghostery also, some are catched by the one but not by the other and vice-versa
10:57:52 <devslashrnd> thers also "disconnect" same blockin like collusion but no fancy graph, from the same guy
10:58:43 <devslashrnd> but it additionally checks for https version of sites when u r connected trough wifi
11:03:27 <MK_FG> Hm, have you tried profiling these vs each other wrt firefox performance and/or ram leaks?
11:04:11 <MK_FG> I didn't check for status of gecko profiler for a while, but iirc it was almost-useable in 17, maybe works on linux now...
11:05:04 <devslashrnd> im usin the plugins in chromium and i dont care about performance as long as it feels smooth
11:05:40 <MK_FG> Ah, yeah, they're probably better isolated there, running in each tab's pid
11:07:27 <devslashrnd> switched from firefox cause of constant freezes during ram cleanses
11:08:08 <MK_FG> It shouldn't have that much stuff to gc in the first place!
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13:47:35 <Cryto147> do you think anonymous will have any influence in the korean hostilities?
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14:09:36 <MK_FG> Damn these existential problems!
14:10:20 * MK_FG managed to create distinct DoesNotExist error alongside DoesNotExists
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15:18:16 <devslashrnd> the week just started and a friend of mine came along and whined about a virus infection, "bka-trojan", he got that for the 2nd time. now he expects that i take care, again. ive always told him " why didnt u use just linux, ur only usin ur pc for watchin porn, the os doesnt matter" but he wont listen
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16:22:12 <joepie91> devslashrnd: there is more chance of catching malware from visiting 'normal' sites than there is from visiting porn sites
16:22:13 <joepie91> fyi
16:22:39 <joepie91> MK_FG: pretty sure that "DoesNotExists" is not valid English
16:22:40 <joepie91> :P
16:23:16 <joepie91> also, MK_FG: I'm using DNT plus from Abine
16:23:17 <joepie91> it works quite well
16:23:45 <devslashrnd> maybe, but thats his usecase^^, oh and facebook and sometimes wikipedia. and he often googles "google"
16:24:08 <joepie91> devslashrnd: and he is running Windows, right?
16:24:13 <joepie91> what AV is he running?
16:24:16 <devslashrnd> of course
16:24:41 <joepie91> devslashrnd: what AV?
16:24:44 <devslashrnd> uh, that dudes with the firewall, aehm
16:25:10 <joepie91> if it's anything that is not Avast, tell him to install Avast
16:25:19 <joepie91> it's quite effective against PEBKACs
16:25:24 <joepie91> as well as malware
16:25:37 <MK_FG> joepie91, Wat!
16:25:42 <joepie91> MK_FG: ?
16:25:50 <MK_FG> joepie91, "it (does not) exists", I've googled it!
16:25:55 <joepie91> lol
16:26:25 <MK_FG> You don't know english even more than I do!
16:26:49 <devslashrnd> zonealarm it was
16:28:33 <zxcvbnm> I have always liked zonealarm
16:28:34 <joepie91> rofl
16:28:42 <joepie91> devslashrnd: right, tell him to install Avast
16:28:43 <zxcvbnm> good consumer level fw
16:28:51 <joepie91> if ZoneAlarm is all he has, it's no wonder he's getting fucked
16:29:12 <joepie91> also, tell him to install avast free
16:29:17 <joepie91> not the paid version
16:29:22 <joepie91> the free one is more than enough
16:29:27 <zxcvbnm> No-Script for your browser is a good idea too.
16:29:34 <joepie91> no-script is mostly pointless
16:29:38 <zxcvbnm> no its not
16:29:38 <joepie91> just enable click-to-play
16:29:40 <joepie91> in your browser
16:29:41 <joepie91> yes, it is
16:29:46 <zxcvbnm> no it's not..
16:30:12 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: the only things noscript can do is block plugins (which click to play also does without needing extensions) and blocking javascript (which is fucking useless)
16:30:27 <devslashrnd> i will do, he will ask me to fix it when im visiting him nexttime
16:30:27 <zxcvbnm> blocking javascript is useless?
16:30:30 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: yes
16:30:35 <zxcvbnm> what.
16:30:51 <zxcvbnm> why is blocking javascript useless?
16:30:52 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: I can count the amount of javascript-related exploits in the past 5 years on one hand
16:31:03 <joepie91> javascript is an effectively harmless clientside scripting language
16:31:10 <joepie91> it cannot access anything on your machine
16:31:13 <joepie91> cannot run any processes
16:31:17 <joepie91> cannot destroy anything
16:31:30 <devslashrnd> and a lot of sites did not work without js
16:31:35 <joepie91> the most disasterous recent bit of javascript was a failed implementation of localstorage in a few browsers that led to the ability to fill up someones HDD with random data
16:31:51 <joepie91> because localstorage storage limits weren't calculated properly
16:31:58 <zxcvbnm> Ok hold on...
16:32:10 <joepie91> inb4 comes up with the "use java from within javascript in firefox" thing
16:32:13 <joepie91> which is blocked when you use click to play
16:32:33 <joepie91> and doesn't work outside firefox _at all_
16:33:04 <zxcvbnm> Ok, so you are just describing an alternative solution to a similar problem
16:33:07 <zxcvbnm> Just with a little bit different specificity
16:33:18 <joepie91> .... no
16:33:25 <joepie91> look
16:33:34 <joepie91> click to play is a cork that plugs a potential hole
16:33:49 <joepie91> noscript is a duct tape factory, massive overkill
16:33:54 <joepie91> with potentially undesirable side effects
16:34:10 <joepie91> in fact, click to play is already a standard part of firefox
16:34:14 <joepie91> and to a degree, of chrome
16:35:11 <joepie91> I get these "you should use noscript" discussions every other week
16:35:22 <joepie91> usually the motivation is "to prevent someone grabbing your IP, bypassing a proxy"
16:35:25 <joepie91> which makes even less sense
16:35:51 <joepie91> because any method of making any connection in Javascript is proxied through the exact same proxy as the rest of your traffic
16:36:12 <joepie91> then you have the people that say "YES BUT JAVA FROM WITHIN JAVASCRIPT" which is firefox-specific and does not work if you block java applets
16:36:23 <joepie91> and the people that confuse java with javascript
16:36:25 <joepie91> etc etc etc
16:36:38 <joepie91> tl;dr almost noone ACTUALLY understands what Javascript is, how it works, and what potential issues it can or cannot cause
16:37:19 <joepie91> rant over
16:39:23 <zxcvbnm> Right, well, you're a strong coder and I can respect your opinion of this. I'm not a marching no-script soldier.. if one solution is better than another, that's fine, I like innovation
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16:40:57 <zxcvbnm> Now, I don't completely agree with the pointless part, because we know some of the world's most popular exploit kits (albeit maybe you can count them on your hand) use JavaScript AND Java, among other things
16:41:21 <zxcvbnm> But that really doesnt' have anything to do with no script vs click to play
16:41:34 <zxcvbnm> To say that javascript is harmless is a pretty sweeping statement
16:41:36 <joepie91> zxcvbnm:
16:41:37 <joepie91>
16:41:46 <joepie91> This landing page contains obfuscated JavaScript that determines what is on the victim's computers and loads all exploits to which this computer is vulnerable [...]
16:41:50 <joepie91> the only mention of javascript
16:42:00 <zxcvbnm> oh i know
16:42:02 <zxcvbnm> I was already on that page
16:42:04 <joepie91> afaik the blackhole kit is effectively one of the most professional kits
16:42:13 <joepie91> no mention of actually using JS for the exploits
16:42:16 <zxcvbnm> most professional *known kits
16:42:17 <joepie91> just as feature detection
16:43:09 <joepie91>
16:43:14 <joepie91> no JS used for exploits themselves
16:43:29 <joepie91> yes, they use JS
16:43:34 <joepie91> no, the JS in there is not harmful
16:43:38 <joepie91> it's just bootstrapping code
16:43:41 <joepie91> to selectively apply exploits
16:44:01 <joepie91> <zxcvbnm>To say that javascript is harmless is a pretty sweeping statement
16:44:11 <joepie91> the point is that this is what javascript was *designed* to be
16:44:27 <joepie91> javascript isn't something like flash or java that runs effectively as a stand-alone (sandboxed) binary
16:44:45 <joepie91> it's a scripting language that is effectively *made* to not allow access to anything outside the browser page
16:45:00 <joepie91> the attack vectors that are used in exploit kits simply aren't there
16:45:06 <joepie91> and can't be
16:45:27 <joepie91> the only reasonably possibility of exploiting a browser via JS alone, is by finding flaws in the JS engine implementation and causing overflows or similar tricks
16:45:32 <joepie91> reasonable *
16:45:57 <zxcvbnm> Ok, yes. so we agree that it is a vehicle to exploitation?
16:47:50 <zxcvbnm> This is interesting for me by the way, I appreciate knowledge
16:48:19 <zxcvbnm> I don't need to be right, I don't have an agenda
16:48:28 <devslashrnd> (imaginin joepie91 bangin his head on the keyboard)
16:48:48 <joepie91> <zxcvbnm>Ok, yes. so we agree that it is a vehicle to exploitation?
16:48:57 <joepie91> not any more than HTML is
16:49:21 <joepie91> in fact, you can apply most of the flash and java exploits just fine *without* javascript
16:49:24 <joepie91> it'd just be a bit noisier
16:49:30 <joepie91> because you cannot selectively apply them
16:49:39 <MK_FG> Huh? I thought people used NoScript vs XSS and tracking
16:49:45 <joepie91> maybe we should block HTML!
16:49:52 <joepie91> :P
16:50:01 <joepie91> MK_FG: people use it for various reasons, very few of them are valid
16:50:10 <zxcvbnm> you can do it without them, yes, that'd be the exploit of Flash or Java
16:50:14 <joepie91> and afaik the XSS reason stopped being valid after, afaik, firefox now also has native XSS protection
16:50:16 <zxcvbnm> but having a quiet way to do it, like you pointed out, is critical
16:50:18 <joepie91> just like Chrome has had for quite a while
16:50:26 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: not really
16:50:32 <joepie91> doing it noisily is just a cost of business
16:50:38 <joepie91> it's nice if you can get rid of the noise, but it's not crucial
16:51:03 <zxcvbnm> well, that's sort of a 2 fold part
16:51:08 <zxcvbnm> how noisy is noisy to a computer uesr?
16:51:08 <zxcvbnm> user*
16:51:14 <zxcvbnm> and how noisy can you be and still be successful?
16:51:22 <zxcvbnm> how much more successful can you be if you minimize the noise?
16:51:36 <joepie91> anyway, MK_FG, turn on click to play, install ghostery or DNT+ or w/e, install adblock, and update to the latest version of chrome or firefox
16:51:41 <joepie91> chance of infection is nearly zero
16:51:50 <joepie91> and no adverse side-effects like sites breaking
16:52:09 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: if I recall correct, the average detection time for a new exploit kit is somewhere in the region of a few hours
16:52:16 <zxcvbnm> MK_FG: joepie91 told me earlier that if you dont' wanna bother with click to play, no-script is effectively synonymous
16:52:25 <zxcvbnm> :D
16:52:27 <joepie91> wat
16:52:29 <zxcvbnm> lol
16:52:29 <joepie91> no, it's not
16:52:31 <zxcvbnm> kidding.
16:53:02 <MK_FG> Nah, click to play is the best thing since sliced bread, why'd you not want it?
16:53:04 <devslashrnd> the bka-trojan i talked about earlier is a blackmail virus, it doesnt matter if its noisy cause it will say " here i am gief moneez" after success
16:53:13 <MK_FG> Implementation of it kinda sucks though
16:53:28 <MK_FG> FlashBlock looked nicer!
16:53:33 <zxcvbnm> I never said I don't want it, I suggested no-script and then joepie91 started
16:54:13 <joepie91> devslashrnd: ah, is it the german ransom one?
16:54:20 <devslashrnd> jepp
16:54:37 <joepie91> it also comes in an Anonymous flavor!
16:54:39 <joepie91> (not kidding)
16:55:00 <MK_FG> Dunno about any anti-XSS stuff done in ff, doing whitelisting seem to be generic solution, wonder how ff might do it otherwise...
16:55:26 <devslashrnd> they ve arrested a bunch of people a few weeks ago, now its back
16:56:11 <joepie91> MK_FG: chrome includes XSS detection - if it finds any of the request parameters in the body anywhere and it looks like a script, it'll block execution
16:56:15 <MK_FG> Oh, I see XHR XSS, that's fair, this is being done for a while, yeah...
16:56:30 <MK_FG> Hmm
16:56:31 <joepie91> it works remarkably well
16:56:44 <joepie91> afaik FF recently implemented something similar
17:00:02 <MK_FG> Hm, actually, about xss things, do you guys know a way to stop sites from rebinding firefox keys from JS?
17:00:34 <MK_FG> Sites seem to aggrivate me with this more and more lately...
17:00:55 <MK_FG> And iirc googling for it brought me no luck in the past
17:02:04 <MK_FG> Lacking better solutions, guess I'll start patching that crap out of firefox sources one day
17:04:18 <zxcvbnm> joepie91: I tried blocking HTML like you said, but now people in our office are saying the internet is "down"
17:07:04 <joepie91> MK_FG: Twitter is one of the worst offenders with that
17:07:09 <joepie91> they actually hijack the F5 key
17:07:14 <joepie91> to mean 'retweet' on a tweet lookup page
17:07:17 <joepie91> VERY annoying
17:07:21 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: lol
17:07:31 <zxcvbnm> :P
17:07:33 <MK_FG> Yeah, people who thought of that should be shot
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19:17:21 <Cryto351> any one have any web sites regarding FEMA camps?
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21:10:09 <AnonyOps[m]> Thought's on this boston stuff?
21:10:34 <AnonyOps[m]> I'm thinking home grown explosives, disturbed individuals, I don't think this was terrorists...
21:12:54 <zxcvbnm> Is it confirmed yet that it wasn't just an accident?
21:14:37 <zxcvbnm> oh
21:14:43 <zxcvbnm> third explosion at JFK library..
21:14:58 <zxcvbnm> probably not an accident.
21:15:24 <AnonyOps[m]> yeah
21:15:35 <AnonyOps[m]> No idea if they're related though
21:15:36 <AnonyOps[m]> that's not been confirmed
21:15:38 <zxcvbnm> right
21:15:53 <AnonyOps[m]> Raw video of second explosion btw
21:16:03 <zxcvbnm> i'd agree with you on initial assessment. doesn't scream foreign terrorism
21:16:22 <AnonyOps[m]> no, it would have been much larger if it was imo
21:16:29 <AnonyOps[m]> This just speaks domestic to me
21:16:32 <zxcvbnm> jesus christ.
21:16:34 <zxcvbnm> that is fucking loud
21:16:38 <AnonyOps[m]> yeah
21:16:53 <AnonyOps[m]> look how far away they are from it
21:16:55 <zxcvbnm> yeah
21:17:15 <AnonyOps[m]> wondering if it was a suicide bomber though...
21:17:32 <AnonyOps[m]> Apparantly they saw a guy with a number of back packs walking around the area
21:17:38 <AnonyOps[m]> caught him on video
21:17:46 <zxcvbnm> is that was this BBC CCTV stuff is ?
21:18:31 <zxcvbnm> wtf
21:18:44 <zxcvbnm> I got sent to a bbc cctv footage of boston marathon.. but it was actually north korea video stuff
21:20:05 <AnonyOps[m]> heh
21:22:11 <zxcvbnm> odd though.
21:22:17 <zxcvbnm> the whole thing.
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21:37:13 <HiveResearch> homegrown lol
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22:37:33 <lady-3jane> lol foreign
22:37:58 <lady-3jane> we have many more domestic terrorists than foreign these days, even with our horrid foreign policy
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22:41:17 <joepie91> lady-3jane: you mean those guys in the white house?
22:43:20 <lady-3jane> I was gonna say the tea party
22:43:42 <lady-3jane> I'm not sure the guys in the white house count as terrorists
22:44:11 <lady-3jane> people using violence against civilians to elicit a political change
22:44:18 <lady-3jane> does that fit?
22:44:42 <lady-3jane> It may soon, I don't think it does yet though
22:45:04 <lady-3jane> oh my god
22:45:12 <lady-3jane> anderson cooper is covering the explosions in boston
22:45:14 <lady-3jane> of course he is
22:45:21 <lady-3jane> that motherfucker just doesn't quit
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23:23:02 <AnonForecast_> joepie91, please talk some sense into the world
23:23:09 <AnonForecast_> if you dont, who will?
23:24:01 <joepie91> hopefully, someone else
23:24:13 <joepie91> it would be slightly worrying if I were the only person on earth attempting to talk sense into people
23:24:40 <AnonForecast_> the only one that "can"
23:24:47 <AnonForecast_> many attempt, nearly all fail.
23:25:09 <AnonForecast_> You are the one, Neo
23:25:14 <AnonForecast_> I mean Jeo*
23:25:32 * AnonForecast_ slow motion bullet dodges something
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23:43:39 * lady-3jane laughs
23:58:26 * twitchyliquid64 grins
23:58:42 <twitchyliquid64>
23:58:43 <twitchyliquid64> thoughts?
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