Cryto! 21 February 2013
00:00:07 <monod> btw, byebye guuyys!
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00:04:34 * DrWhat is aw a y "Sleep!" L o g: on P a ger: off
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00:16:33 <zxcvbnm> you stay classy. see ya'll
00:16:35 <zxcvbnm> exit
00:16:40 <zxcvbnm> oops. not command prompt
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00:22:51 <Art> pai pai
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00:31:42 <Art> >tfw joepie is mirroring all my code to github
00:31:45 <Art> >feels good man
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02:00:28 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Good morning sexy people.
02:00:36 <wh1t3r4bb1t> loggy, pointer?
02:00:36 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-02-21#T02-00-36
02:04:00 <twitchyliquid64> wh1t3r4bb1t: good evening
02:04:36 <Divinite> loggy, pointer?
02:04:36 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-02-21#T02-04-36
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02:05:40 <Divinite> Hello twitchliquid64
02:05:48 <twitchyliquid64> hello Divinite
02:05:58 <Divinite> How is everything?
02:06:06 <twitchyliquid64> goood
02:06:28 <Divinite> Coool
02:07:00 <Divinite> I'm kind of annoyed at my gate1 server right now
02:07:08 <Divinite> I haven't restarted it in ages I know
02:07:20 <Divinite> But I can't be bothered
02:11:39 <twitchyliquid64> gate1 server?
02:14:59 <wh1t3r4bb1t> hey twitchyliquid64 how you been?
02:15:42 <twitchyliquid64> pretty good
02:16:03 <twitchyliquid64> trying to improve my ability to life ATM rather than code
02:21:49 <wh1t3r4bb1t> You got sick of coding?
02:22:24 <twitchyliquid64> sort of
02:22:27 <twitchyliquid64> need a break
02:22:40 <twitchyliquid64> I need to see what im missing at my age
02:22:49 <wh1t3r4bb1t> I get that way someimes.
02:23:09 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Damn bitcoin crashed again.
02:23:21 <wh1t3r4bb1t> monit didn't restart it either.
02:23:51 * wh1t3r4bb1t slaps monit in the face. WAKE UP!
02:27:10 <wh1t3r4bb1t> wat? Monit isn't even running... I just started it again too.
02:27:20 <wh1t3r4bb1t> still not running
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02:44:47 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Anyone use monit?
02:48:43 <wh1t3r4bb1t> ok now monit is running and bitcoind is running. I have to stare at this screen for like an hour
02:48:46 <twitchyliquid64> nup sorry
02:50:14 <wh1t3r4bb1t> any luck with the ladies recently twitchyliquid64?
02:50:23 <twitchyliquid64> sort of
02:50:30 <twitchyliquid64> we shall see
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04:07:03 <twitchyliquid64> perhaps I should do some coding
04:07:07 <twitchyliquid64> Im really bored
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04:17:59 <Art> y0y0
04:18:06 <Art> Did Miss joepie go to sleep?
04:18:09 <twitchyliquid64> well look whos back
04:18:19 <Art> :3 hai
04:18:22 <twitchyliquid64> bringin in bitches for the party? :D
04:18:28 <Art> hahaha
04:18:46 <Art> something liek that
04:19:38 <lady-3jane> DONGS
04:20:38 <lady-3jane> NP: [Amy Winehouse - Rehab] [Back To Black] [946kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
04:21:03 <Art> :D
04:21:54 <lady-3jane> NOOOO NOOOOO NOOOOOO
04:22:02 <lady-3jane> or uh
04:23:13 <Art> I liek cats
04:23:23 <lady-3jane> Tit for tat and bone for bone, I'm going to set fire to your grandma
04:23:29 <lady-3jane> NP: [Andrew Bird's Bowl Of Fire - Candy Shop] [Oh! The Grandeur] [794kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
04:23:41 <Art> What are you doing there?
04:23:49 <Art> Playing music on people's browser with XSS?
04:24:14 <lady-3jane> that's not a bad idea
04:24:16 <lady-3jane> but no
04:24:18 <lady-3jane> :/
04:24:35 <Art> lold
04:25:08 <Art> I saw Beef so I thought you had written a custom module for "Browser Exploitation Framework" to troll people
04:25:56 <lady-3jane> nah deadbeef is a linux music app
04:25:57 <lady-3jane> :P
04:26:14 <lady-3jane> though I guess that'd be the ultimate troll
04:26:21 <lady-3jane> you get popped AND awesome music plays
04:26:28 <Art> hahaha
04:26:36 * Art starts coding it
04:26:40 <lady-3jane> DO IT
04:27:00 <lady-3jane> NP: [Apollo Four Forty - Tears of the Gods] [Electro Glide in Blue] [261kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
04:27:07 <lady-3jane> hmm
04:27:11 <lady-3jane> might be a three beer night
04:27:13 <lady-3jane> feelin it
04:27:29 <Art> !play raise your weapon by deadmau5
04:27:38 <Art> meanwhile... on cnn.com...
04:28:02 * lady-3jane has no deadmau5
04:28:17 <lady-3jane> WAIT WAIT WAIT
04:28:18 <lady-3jane> I DO
04:28:24 <lady-3jane> not that song though
04:28:51 <lady-3jane> NP: [Deadmau5 - Moar Ghosts 'n' Stuff] [For Lack of a Better Name] [963kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
04:29:02 <lady-3jane> yes, even the deadmau5 which I never listen to is in flac
04:29:05 <lady-3jane> fuck you all
04:29:49 <Art> haha
04:37:16 <Divinite> I am toooooooo coool for schoool
04:38:03 <Art> ^_^
04:38:05 <lady-3jane> lmao
04:38:07 <lady-3jane> not as bad as me
04:38:20 <lady-3jane> I got up at 5am today to read Plato's the Republic and write a paper on it
04:38:38 <lady-3jane> wrote the paper... went to turn it in... found out there wasn't even an assignment on plato's republic.
04:39:32 <lady-3jane> But ya know, it's cool
04:39:57 <twitchyliquid64> lol
04:40:43 <lady-3jane> Yeah... :>
04:41:13 <lady-3jane> I told my mom and she goes "why don't you ever work that hard on anything I ask you to do?" "Because you're the one asking me to do it"
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04:47:41 <Divinite> twitchyliquid64: HELLO!
04:48:00 <twitchyliquid64> Divinite: HIIIIII!
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04:56:27 <Divinite> twitchyliquid64: PING
04:56:36 <Divinite> lady-3jane: Too cool
04:57:35 <lady-3jane> Divinite:) :D
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05:16:31 <wh1t3r4bb1t> BEANS!
05:16:37 <wh1t3r4bb1t> and piggy
05:16:52 <wh1t3r4bb1t> nom nom nom
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05:21:56 * lady-3jane danecs
05:21:59 <lady-3jane> dances *
05:22:05 <lady-3jane> I'm not drunk at all, what're you on about
05:22:06 <lady-3jane> NP: [Modestep - Feel Good] [Feel Good] [1119kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
05:22:27 <lady-3jane> mostly everything I do is awesome
05:22:45 <lady-3jane> because I'm running e17 so whenever anything happens on my UI it explodes
05:24:49 <lady-3jane> JEEZIS
05:24:52 <lady-3jane> NP: [Rush - Tom Sawyer] [Moving Pictures] [1744kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
05:24:58 <lady-3jane> 1.7mbit music
05:25:00 <lady-3jane> LELZ
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05:58:08 * lady-3jane shoots hearts across the internet
06:11:38 <Divinite> Anyone know of a way
06:11:44 <Divinite> that I could create
06:11:48 <Divinite> a simple 'bank'
06:11:51 <Divinite> fake of course
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06:23:20 <Divinite> Anyone?
06:39:36 <twitchyliquid64> Divinite: yes
06:39:47 <twitchyliquid64> have an SQL database
06:40:10 <twitchyliquid64> with a single table with fields accountname, accountnumber, balance
06:40:37 <twitchyliquid64> to handle transactions all you need to do is change the balance of the two respective accounts
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07:52:35 <peachlove> hey guis
07:52:58 <peachlove> just a few q's
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08:38:02 <wh1t3r4bb1t> wut? fake bankking?
08:38:43 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Anyone need anything done for 10 BTC?
08:55:05 <twitchyliquid64> wh1t3r4bb1t: he wants to make his own centralized virtual currency
08:55:19 <twitchyliquid64> 'fake' isnt really a valid discription
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09:08:23 <wh1t3r4bb1t> 22:11 Divinite: Anyone know of a way
09:08:23 <wh1t3r4bb1t> 22:11 Divinite: that I could create
09:08:23 <wh1t3r4bb1t> 22:11 Divinite: a simple 'bank'
09:08:25 <wh1t3r4bb1t> 22:11 Divinite: fake of course
09:09:17 <twitchyliquid64> bank is a keeper of currency
09:09:37 <twitchyliquid64> if Divinite creates a bank, and a new currency to go with it, its a bank, not fake
09:09:53 <twitchyliquid64> it just doesnt happen to deal in US$ or real-world money
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09:24:00 <MK_FG> All currencies exist as agreement, so with >1 person using such bank, I'd say it's 100% "real-world money"
09:25:29 <twitchyliquid64> well, you_understand_what_i_mean.jpg
09:25:51 <MK_FG> Yeah, these things you can use to buy beer
09:26:02 <MK_FG> Nothing else is real!
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10:25:24 <monod> tell joepie91: 1) you could implement a function in the loggy that you privately msg it something like "loggy, news?" and it shows you if someone has named you while you were offline since last time you left the channel (is this clear?); 2) I wanted to say to you: Khan Academy has a BitTorrent App! :)
10:26:17 <monod> oh, and wonder about offline messages in IRC (like other instant messaging do), wouldn't that be useful?
10:26:44 <monod> they may not be useful tho
10:27:20 <monod> I think it could be excessive work/load for the server, after all...
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10:36:43 <ryan> fedtorrent
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10:36:54 <ryan> ok
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10:39:26 <ryan> I wonder if its feds or torrents which I'm not supposed to talk about
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11:10:30 <MK_FG> Oh, this channel is full of feds!
11:12:17 <MK_FG> monod, Yeah, very useful feature to have indeed (imho), but I think it's generally privately by users via irc bouncers, long-running clients (e.g. irssi in screen) or bnc's embedded into client (I think quassel does that, having "detachable" interface)
11:12:35 <MK_FG> *it's generally done
11:15:29 <MK_FG> And wrt work/load - there are bots that keep track of "last seen" timestamp (maybe by grepping logs in some cases), and all you seem to propose just take that timestamp and add "show since" feature to loggy (if it's not already there)
11:16:18 <MK_FG> Just trying to make a case for "apparently it's not hard work-wise, as it's being done everywhere" ;)
11:22:08 <monod> "make a case for" = ???
11:22:10 <monod> MK_FG
11:23:32 <MK_FG> = "saying why that might be the case"
11:24:16 <MK_FG> http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/make+a+case+for
11:24:20 <monod> thaaaanks
11:24:22 <monod> :D
11:24:59 <monod> Now I see what you mean
11:25:29 <monod> so you are saying it could be useful and (almost more importantly) easy to implement
11:25:40 <monod> the loggy one
11:26:02 <monod> loggy, pointer?
11:26:02 <loggy> http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-02-21#T11-26-02
11:27:24 <monod> that bank thing is very interesting
11:28:05 <MK_FG> Why? ;)
11:29:21 <monod> how much hard/easy is to setup my own bitcoin wallet? MK_FG: because of the fact that "if >1 people uses/exchanges that currecy, it's 100% real bank" <-- this is counter-intuitive at first, but very reasonable after
11:31:06 <MK_FG> Should be as easy as installing some bitcoin client
11:31:16 <MK_FG> Though might be harder to set it up *securely*
11:31:50 <MK_FG> (like, verify that client wasn't downloaded in backdoored form, and it's hard for random malware to steal the keys)
11:32:16 <monod> Can you tell me more about the basics?
11:32:40 <MK_FG> No, I don't really use bitcoin myself, and I suspect you need to do it on windows anyway
11:32:42 <monod> (lady-3jane dances all the way in the logs :D)
11:32:59 <MK_FG> There's gotta be a gozillion guides on how to do it though ;)
11:33:00 <monod> Nope, I switch to windows for gaming purpose
11:33:08 <monod> yeah, I supposed it
11:33:16 <monod> so I'll check those out
11:33:33 <monod> Where the money is being stored?
11:33:45 <MK_FG> Some file like wallet.dat
11:33:48 <monod> Because it would be very good if it was an alternative to main real banks
11:34:15 <MK_FG> SO I'd just make sure that nothing but root and bitcoin app can access that in practice
11:34:22 <monod> :D
11:34:30 <MK_FG> (if you have some LSM like selinux, maybe even deny it to root)
11:34:45 <monod> LSM ?
11:34:51 <MK_FG> Linux Security Module
11:35:24 <monod> wow, what's that? That it could allow you to cut off root from things? :O
11:36:08 <MK_FG> And wrt the client itself - at least get the gpg keys it's signed with from multiple sources and check the archive, or maybe use the same web-of-trust with your distro (like, just use "apt-get", which should have signing enabled)
11:36:46 <MK_FG> Yeah, it just adds one more layer of acl-based security on top of default linux dac
11:37:17 <MK_FG> So you have to a) satisfy traditional unix permissions - uid/gid/mode/capabilities/etc b) satisfy selinux rules
11:37:28 <monod> are DAC = Default Access Control and ACL = Access Control L-something?
11:37:39 <monod> that's cool
11:37:53 <monod> this: <&MK_FG> So you have to a) satisfy traditional unix permissions - uid/gid/mode/capabilities/etc b) satisfy selinux rules
11:37:55 <MK_FG> DAC - Discretonary Access Controls, L in ACL = Lists
11:38:07 <MK_FG> *tionary
11:38:10 <monod> Yup
11:38:46 <monod> so, does adding additional security layers on top of current ones really increase security?
11:39:17 <MK_FG> Name actually stands for "if uid=X wants to leak something, it can!", as opposed to MAC where "if uid=X wants to leak something and there's no rule for that - nope"
11:39:34 <MK_FG> I guess there's no general answer ;)
11:39:59 <monod> i2p pops in my mind - is it an example of adding layers?
11:40:29 <MK_FG> Like, maybe in some cases spending that selinux-setup time on something more basic like checking that you haven't forgot to do "chmod" will be more useful
11:40:37 <MK_FG> Should depend on lots of things, I think
11:40:43 <MK_FG> Also, SELinux sucks ;)
11:41:02 <MK_FG> It's damn hard to use and non-intuitive
11:41:16 <MK_FG> (compared to other LSM's, even)
11:41:36 <MK_FG> I don't know enough about i2p, I'm afraid
11:41:47 <monod> ("<lady-3jane> because I'm running e17 so whenever anything happens on my UI it explodes" oooohhh, I wanna ask him when he'll be back!)
11:42:11 <MK_FG> But fairly sure it (whole network) can't be based on ACLs, as there's just no central authority
11:42:30 <monod> oh, it's a pity :D but not that pity, because it's a very old project and... it does not seem to be very much populated... :/ But the concept is a great idea, imo
11:42:58 <MK_FG> Nah, it's not a bad thing, these are just not applicable to the concept, I think
11:43:13 <monod> I meant:
11:43:23 <monod> it's a pity you don't know enough about i2p"
11:43:24 <MK_FG> And ACLs are generally quite bad due to need for some centralization, anyway
11:43:48 <MK_FG> Ah, right, yeah, I'm a bit put-off by it's java reference implementation, I think
11:44:00 <monod> Everyone hates Java :)
11:44:02 <MK_FG> If it was some C, I'd have had it installed long time ago
11:44:07 <monod> dunno why yet
11:44:12 <MK_FG> But not keen on having java anywhere...
11:44:37 <monod> I don't think it's only a performances reason, right?
11:44:39 <MK_FG> Hopefully, there are other implementations around
11:44:51 <MK_FG> Nah, it's not a performance at all
11:45:05 <monod> *that* I did not know :/ it's been a "long" time since I last used i2p :/
11:45:13 <monod> it's about exploits?
11:45:16 <monod> is it*
11:45:37 <MK_FG> I just don't have java anywhere and don't want to install it (and presumably lots of it's infrastructure, like libs, build system (ant), etc)....
11:45:53 <monod> Oh. :O
11:45:54 <MK_FG> ...and then run it's vm, which I think always eats quite a lot of ram
11:46:02 <MK_FG> Just for one app
11:46:31 <monod> awright
11:46:38 <MK_FG> I prefer to build stuff from source, too, and occasionally peek into these, and with java it'd be a lot of extra crap
11:47:18 <monod> What the fun in building stuff from sources? (I'm questioning because I'm a real noob in these things)
11:47:57 <MK_FG> You don't have ABI deps, only API deps
11:48:04 <MK_FG> You always have all the dev stuff
11:48:10 <monod> liek?
11:48:13 <monod> like*
11:48:35 <MK_FG> ...so can install any version of anything at any time, w/o need to pull in old/new versions of libc or other libs
11:48:39 <monod> (and deps ?)
11:48:46 <MK_FG> Dev stuff? Like headers
11:49:01 <MK_FG> Also, debug symbols
11:49:20 <monod> For people who knows technicisms tho, right?
11:49:24 <MK_FG> And all the patching is generally trivial with source-based build systems
11:49:28 <monod> It's advanced stuff man :D
11:49:58 <MK_FG> Yeah, I think if you don't know why it might be useful for you - it's just not ;)
11:50:28 <monod> In the sense that if I never needed it, it's not a problem
11:50:36 <monod> (?)
11:50:36 <MK_FG> Of course!
11:50:45 <monod> Yet, why would someone *need* it?
11:50:54 <MK_FG> Reasons above
11:50:58 <monod> beacuse of what you already mentioned - oh okay
11:51:03 <MK_FG> (at least mine)
11:51:03 <monod> :up:
11:51:11 <monod> awwwright
11:56:01 <monod> (interesting - just read ABI vs API what-they-do/are-comparison on stackoverflow, again, interesting and easy to understand)
11:56:26 <monod> *afk*
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12:06:16 * wh1t3r4bb1t changes mode +o *monod
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12:06:41 * wh1t3r4bb1t snickers
12:30:13 <monod> <&monod> tell joepie91: 1) you could implement a function in the loggy that you privately msg it something like "loggy, news?" and it shows you if someone has named you while you were offline since last time you left the channel (is this clear?); 2) I wanted to say to you: Khan Academy has a BitTorrent App! :)
12:36:19 <monod> idea: brain works with idea association
12:37:50 <monod> may the binary numeric system be a very very poor idea-associative system used by computers? May AI improve if a wider numeric system was to be adopted? End of the idea.
12:38:38 <MK_FG> idea association?
12:38:54 <MK_FG> I thought it works through generalization and pattern-matching ;)
12:40:21 <MK_FG> Guess you might mean the same thing, and I wonder if you can really express abstract concept (e.g. an idea of something) in anything but brain
12:41:24 <MK_FG> My point is that I don't see why 1-to-1 map of human concept to machines is necessary for anything useful
12:41:33 <MK_FG> *concepts
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12:55:19 <monod> "I wonder if you can really express abstract concept (e.g. an idea of something) in anything but brain" what I just thought was that computers "have ideas", that they can use for associations, but they consists of too few "basic" elements, 1 and 0
12:55:50 <monod> so, they work with sequencial ideas, that are the so-called states
12:56:16 <MK_FG> Yeah, sure, computers work, it's a fact ;)
12:56:26 <monod> what if we enlarge the "resolution" of those "computer's ideas"
12:57:37 <MK_FG> And get one of the machine learning algorithms? Sure
12:58:14 <monod> *afk*
12:58:17 <monod> Oh, I see what you mean
12:58:24 <monod> they do not invent anything spontaneously
12:58:32 <monod> *afkkkk*
12:58:33 <monod> cya+ù
12:58:35 <monod> cya*
12:58:49 BLTGeno (BLTGeno4@D68C9ED.3BC0875E.71C5A468.IP) has joined #crytocc
12:58:53 <MK_FG> Again mapping human thing to computers
12:58:57 yoshi (c1d8838d@cryto-6BD3BA7.mibbit.com) has joined #crytocc
12:59:14 <yoshi> hi
12:59:19 <yoshi> anyone here?
12:59:24 <MK_FG> In a way, they invent gozillion things per second ;)
12:59:40 <MK_FG> Like, new unique states of the whole internet
13:00:06 <MK_FG> yoshi, Maybe
13:00:17 <yoshi> :-)
13:01:29 <yoshi> looking for joepie91
13:01:49 <MK_FG> So why ask for *anyone*?
13:02:15 <MK_FG> Hmm... do you imply that we're all joepie91? ;)
13:03:41 <yoshi> :-) yeah yeah
13:03:57 <yoshi> lot of idle chatters here
13:04:29 <MK_FG> "Will the real joepie91 please stand up?" ;)
13:05:48 <yoshi> oooo... Eminem huh?
13:06:36 <yoshi> guess I will have to get in touch with him later
13:14:52 <wh1t3r4bb1t> i farted
13:21:15 <wh1t3r4bb1t> working on one of 14 sites on my plate right now. oh the joy of having a different site to work on when I tire of another. :P
13:23:29 yoshi has quit (User quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
13:27:26 <monod> Like that ^
13:28:17 <wh1t3r4bb1t> lol
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13:35:11 <wh1t3r4bb1t> food is cooking. it will be nom nom nom very soon.
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13:41:57 Cryto215 (Cryto215@cryto-6F8510C2.static.netvigator.com) has joined #crytocc
13:46:31 <monod> last thing I'll say before logoff
13:46:44 <monod> Is Sony the new Microsoft?
13:47:04 <Cryto215> yes
13:47:11 monod has quit (User quit: cya later guys! thanks for conversation MK_FG!)
13:57:00 <Cryto215> joepie91's awesome
14:00:02 Cryto215 has quit (User quit: Page closed)
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15:02:30 syla-jain has quit (User quit: Leaving)
15:09:06 <wh1t3r4bb1t> take cover, im doing css again
15:09:31 syla-jain (syla-jain@cryto-D69DA4B3.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined #crytocc
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16:05:13 * lady-3jane waves at monod several hours later
16:09:41 <wh1t3r4bb1t> noone on the corner has swagger like us
16:10:25 <wh1t3r4bb1t> What features do you want in a file share service?
16:10:37 <zxcvbnm> A huge New Zealander
16:30:32 DrWhat (VGHJHBN@drwhat-119493.apps.solidcloud.com) has joined #crytocc
16:30:35 <DrWhat> What happed
16:30:49 <DrWhat> Cant go away with out servers killing me
16:33:05 <DrWhat> INSERT INTO `evomap`.`servers` (`servers_id`, `name`, `update`) VALUES ('1', '1', '1');
16:33:07 <DrWhat> :)
17:03:06 <lady-3jane> wh1t3r4bb1t:) non-shitty filesize limits and real file management utilities.
17:03:55 <lady-3jane> ex: I can upload a 5gig file (with resume) but perhaps it can only be downloaded 50 times or something (due to its size)
17:06:55 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Ok, lady-3jane, would you be willing to code the upload and download script for free lifetime membership to such a site... with unlimited downloads and storage?
17:07:53 <lady-3jane> I've coded upload forms before, but I don't know what the security implications of them are
17:08:41 <lady-3jane> I guess it'd depend on what the backend is
17:09:22 <lady-3jane> or just fuck everyone and do it in perl
17:09:29 <lady-3jane> just to make EVERYONE cringe
17:10:07 <lady-3jane> god I love exploding windows
17:10:15 <lady-3jane> minimiBOOMF
17:10:29 <lady-3jane> ze
17:11:41 <wh1t3r4bb1t> lol
17:16:59 Grovonymous (Jo_Pro@cryto-E398B4F2.dynamic.mnet-online.de) has joined #crytocc
17:17:18 Grovonymous has quit (User quit: Verlassend)
17:18:39 <wh1t3r4bb1t> is php and ruby
17:22:59 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tlvxh
17:23:00 <DrWhat> :D
17:23:12 <DrWhat> 1 more step closer to pissing evony off
17:25:34 <wh1t3r4bb1t> cares nobody said the man hat the in green.
17:31:38 <DrWhat> Found a total of 12112 records in this csv file.
17:40:29 <lady-3jane> alright, cool
17:45:59 pzuraq (pzuraq@cryto-7B09657A.ucsc.edu) has joined #crytocc
17:50:16 * lady-3jane writes a rant
18:06:37 <joepie91> morning all
18:13:27 <Matrix> joepie91: someone wrote a reply post too you :3
18:17:31 <DrWhat> joepie91 I think you got your times mixxed up
18:17:41 <DrWhat> Your not australian
18:19:52 <joepie91> Matrix: I think I know what one you mean
18:19:53 <joepie91> :P
18:23:11 <Matrix> DrWhat: we should do like XKCD
18:23:39 <DrWhat> what?
18:23:43 <Matrix> when everyone say "Good Morning from x", x = the country your day rythm is closest too
18:23:58 <Matrix> which means if you are a night person, and live in Norway
18:23:58 <Matrix> you say
18:24:04 <Matrix> "Good morning from USA"
18:24:57 <Matrix> http://xkcd.com/448/
18:28:00 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) do you know of a bookmarklet where I can select some text on a page and it will give me a character count? (word count too is fine, but I need to count characters.)
18:28:12 <lady-3jane> I used to have one but I cannot find a similar thing anymore
18:33:49 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tm5ob
18:33:51 <DrWhat> :D
18:34:12 <lady-3jane> lol
18:34:22 <joepie91> lady-3jane: no idea about a bookmarklet, but no doubt it exists in browser extension form
18:34:34 <lady-3jane> I'll try that then
18:34:39 <lady-3jane> I just can't get the right combination of words
18:34:44 <joepie91> http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2007/12/27/word-count-bookmarklet/
18:34:45 <joepie91> ?
18:34:48 <lady-3jane> and everyone wants to insert javascript into my page to do it
18:34:50 <joepie91> "word count bookmarklet"
18:35:04 <lady-3jane> again, with the inserting js into the page
18:35:14 <lady-3jane> it's an https page, I need something that actually just works
18:35:15 <joepie91> how else would it do it...
18:35:25 <lady-3jane> my old one did
18:35:32 <joepie91> you realize that this is inherent to bookmarklets due to character limit
18:35:35 <lady-3jane> but I'm an idiot and I deleted it instead of just shoving it away in a folder
18:36:19 <joepie91> DrWhat: seriously
18:36:22 <lady-3jane> that one works, but doesn't give character count
18:36:23 <joepie91> don't do that "hacking attempt" crap
18:36:26 <joepie91> it's very childish
18:36:50 <joepie91> lady-3jane: modify it to do char count..?
18:37:31 <lady-3jane> I'm looking at it now
18:37:35 * lady-3jane has never coded js
18:38:02 <DrWhat> Joepie it works
18:38:02 <DrWhat> XD
18:38:13 <joepie91> DrWhat: what works?
18:38:21 <DrWhat> that big warning
18:38:27 * joepie91 sighs
18:38:34 <joepie91> and you are basing that claim on?
18:38:41 <DrWhat> Unless they think they are pro hackers
18:38:50 <joepie91> <joepie91>and you are basing that claim on?
18:38:56 <DrWhat> i saw
18:38:58 <joepie91> or did you just decide that 'it works' because you THINK it works?
18:39:11 <joepie91> saw what?
18:39:14 <joepie91> form a complete sentence
18:39:20 <DrWhat> [6:38:56pm] (joepie91) <joepie91>and you are basing that claim on?
18:39:20 <lady-3jane> and how are we defining "works"
18:39:33 <joepie91> DrWhat: form a complete sentence
18:39:34 <DrWhat> I drives skids away :)
18:39:42 <joepie91> how do you know that? form a complete sentence
18:40:11 <DrWhat> Im sorry? Did you finish your sentence?
18:40:18 <DrWhat> I didnt see a full stop.
18:40:23 <DrWhat> :P
18:40:25 <joepie91> right, if you're not going to answer, I'll just fill in the rest myself
18:40:31 <joepie91> as I guess it happened
18:40:42 <joepie91> you once saw some skid freak out over a notice like thaty
18:40:43 <joepie91> that *
18:40:51 <joepie91> and from that you concluded that all skids must be scared off by it
18:40:53 <joepie91> so let me get this straight
18:40:57 <joepie91> possible scenarios:
18:41:07 <lady-3jane> haha I might be able to edit this
18:41:08 <DrWhat> :D
18:41:12 * lady-3jane googles
18:41:24 <joepie91> 1. your code is shit and inherently insecure because you fucked up - in this case your code shouldn't even be online in the FIRST place and you should be fixing your code instead of putting retarded notices on it
18:41:34 <DrWhat> Nope not insecure :)
18:41:42 AnonForecast has quit (Connection reset by peer)
18:41:43 <joepie91> 2. your code is proper and only insecure as far as PHP or the HTTPd is insecure - in this case a skid is not going to get in ANYWAY
18:41:45 <joepie91> so why even put up the notice?
18:42:09 AnonForecast (AnonForeca@AnonForecast.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
18:42:10 <joepie91> 3. your code is proper and secure as above, and a non-skid tries to get in - do you really think he'll be scared off by the warning? he'll just hop on TOR (even many skids will do this) and continue
18:42:22 <joepie91> end conclusion: such a notice is fucking retarded and nothing more than 'cargo cult security'
18:42:27 <joepie91> get rid of it and fix your code so that it isn't necessary
18:42:42 <joepie91> you're wasting your time on this crap
18:42:48 <joepie91> it serves absolutely zero purpose
18:42:57 <DrWhat> They cant continue really
18:43:13 <DrWhat> if (!is_numeric($SID)){
18:43:38 <DrWhat> they can put a letter in
18:43:43 <DrWhat> and it will say they tried to hack
18:43:44 <joepie91> DrWhat: and what do you think, mr smart, happens when someone fatfingers a letter after a URL they send to someone
18:43:47 <joepie91> and the recipient clicks it
18:43:49 <joepie91> and gets a warning
18:43:50 <joepie91> instead of a 404
18:43:58 <DrWhat> Joepie
18:44:00 <DrWhat> Read the code
18:44:00 <joepie91> get. rid. of. that. bullshit. notice.
18:44:02 <joepie91> and do it properly
18:44:02 <joepie91> no
18:44:04 <joepie91> I don't care
18:44:07 <joepie91> that notice has no business of being there
18:44:13 <joepie91> it serves no purpose and could only possibly confuse
18:44:14 <DrWhat> That param does not take text input
18:44:19 <DrWhat> Its an option param
18:44:25 <joepie91> LISTEN TO ME FOR FUCKS SAKE
18:44:26 <DrWhat> all the opetion are 338 servers
18:44:30 <joepie91> stop typing and listen
18:44:31 <DrWhat> All server have ID's
18:44:32 <joepie91> I'm serious
18:44:33 <joepie91> stfu
18:44:35 <joepie91> stop typing
18:44:36 <DrWhat> :)
18:44:37 <joepie91> stop blabbering
18:44:38 <joepie91> and listen
18:44:50 <joepie91> the people you're trying to 'scare away' aren't going to get in in the first place so that notice has no business of being there
18:44:52 <joepie91> it serves 0 purpose
18:44:59 <joepie91> and while it serves 0 constructive purpose, it DOES have a destructive effect
18:44:59 <lady-3jane> I win
18:45:03 <joepie91> in that it can confuse people
18:45:04 * lady-3jane fixt
18:45:08 joepie91_ has quit (User quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
18:45:09 * lady-3jane bounces
18:45:11 joepie91 has quit (User quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
18:45:36 <DrWhat> did he finish ???
18:46:02 joepie91 (joepie91@cryto-A6766B2C.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #crytocc
18:46:06 <DrWhat> where did he go?
18:46:11 <DrWhat> Oh hi
18:46:15 joepie91_ (joepie91@cryto-A6766B2C.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #crytocc
18:47:10 <joepie91> yes, I accidentally ctrl+W'd
18:47:18 <joepie91> tl;dr get rid of the notice
18:47:19 <joepie91> it's a bad idea
18:47:20 <joepie91> and only harms
18:47:23 <joepie91> net loss
18:47:26 <joepie91> remove it and put in a proper 404
18:47:58 <DrWhat> O_O
18:48:06 <DrWhat> a 404 is just the same thing....
18:48:18 * joepie91 facepalms
18:48:19 <DrWhat> I can put in a 404 header
18:48:23 <joepie91> DrWhat: did you actually read what I just said
18:48:27 <DrWhat> Yes
18:48:33 <joepie91> or are you only reading the line where I say "get rid of it"
18:48:37 <joepie91> and ignoring the entire explanation before it
18:48:39 <DrWhat> Esspesily this part
18:48:40 <DrWhat> 14[046:45:08pm14] 14(0415joepie9114)00 in that it can confuse people
18:48:43 <joepie91> good
18:48:46 <joepie91> so how is a 404 the same?
18:48:52 <joepie91> because clearly that doesn't confuse people
18:48:54 <joepie91> as it gives the correct message
18:49:22 <DrWhat> its the same thing...
18:49:24 <lady-3jane> If I navigate to a bad or misconstructed link, I'm not a hacker. You're just a cunt.
18:49:42 <joepie91> DrWhat: you just QUOTED the part that shows it's not the same thing
18:49:46 <joepie91> for fucks sake
18:49:50 <joepie91> look
18:49:52 <joepie91> this can go two ways
18:49:57 <joepie91> either you go the civilized discourse way
18:50:05 <joepie91> and I explain exactly to you why there is a difference
18:50:09 <joepie91> and you make a reasonable attempt to understand it
18:50:15 <joepie91> and take action if it turns out to make a difference
18:50:30 <joepie91> or you go the other way and just keep repeating that "it's not different", ignoring any explanation as to how it is
18:50:32 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) javascript:(function(){var t;if(window.getSelection){t=window.getSelection()}else{if(document.selection){t=document.selection.createRange()}}if(t.text!=undefined){t=t.text}if(!t||t==""){alert("please select some text")}else{alert("character count: "+t.toString().length)}})();
18:50:34 <joepie91> and I'll respond equally ignorant
18:50:40 <joepie91> in that I will continuously bother you about it
18:50:44 <joepie91> without providing any kind of explanation
18:50:53 <joepie91> and just expecting you to accept what I say without any supporting arguments
18:51:08 <joepie91> tl;dr it's your choice whether we have a civilized discussion, or whether I'll just bother you and you have no idea why
18:51:34 <joepie91> lady-3jane: that would probably not fit in IE
18:51:35 <joepie91> lol
18:51:36 <DrWhat> Ok ok ok ok ok ok o kok
18:51:42 <DrWhat> What if i set it to just
18:51:59 <DrWhat> "Please choise a valid option."
18:52:10 <lady-3jane> IE?
18:52:11 <joepie91> DrWhat: then visitors would wonder where to choose an option
18:52:20 <joepie91> hence 404, and maybe suggest a page where people can go to find a real destination
18:52:21 <DrWhat> Joe
18:52:27 <lady-3jane> It has tweet sized character limit? :D
18:52:30 <joepie91> the problem is that you are making assumptions about the intention of your users
18:52:36 <joepie91> which is always a bad thing to do
18:52:44 <joepie91> when that can end up in a negative response
18:52:45 <DrWhat> Normal (non hacker http request editors) would not get this notice
18:52:52 <joepie91> DrWhat: I just explained to you how they would
18:52:58 <joepie91> this happens
18:53:00 <joepie91> period
18:53:07 <joepie91> it is a statistical certainty that this happens
18:53:25 <joepie91> stop making assumptions about intentions just because you want to feel 'cool' by 'catching the hackers'
18:53:34 <DrWhat> -.-
18:53:36 <joepie91> and just serve a proper message that explains what *happened*, not what you think the user is trying to *do*
18:53:46 <joepie91> and what *happened* is that an invalid URL was requested
18:53:47 <joepie91> so, 404
18:53:53 <DrWhat> <select name=\"SID\" id=\"SID\">
18:53:53 <DrWhat> <option value=\"\" selected=\"selected\">Choose Server</option>
18:53:55 <joepie91> (the requested resource does not exist)
18:54:04 <joepie91> if that is visible on every page, then sure
18:54:08 <joepie91> you can say "choose a valid option"
18:54:18 <joepie91> but you have to be sure that wherever that message appears, the list has to be as well
18:54:38 <joepie91> list is as well*
18:54:50 <joepie91> man, my grammar is deteroriating today :|
18:54:55 <joepie91> deteriorating?
18:55:45 <DrWhat> diminishing
18:55:52 <joepie91> that works
18:55:54 <joepie91> for me
18:55:54 <joepie91> :P
18:55:56 <DrWhat> :)
18:56:02 <joepie91> whole lot easier to spell, too
18:56:16 <DrWhat> What if i told you
18:56:20 <DrWhat> It was not a word O_O
18:56:24 <DrWhat> I just made it up
18:56:49 <lady-3jane> Except it is a word
18:57:09 <DrWhat> :P
18:57:19 <lady-3jane> or Accept it is a word, both work in that instance. Hilarious.
18:57:34 <joepie91> > - MemoServ: You have 3 new memos.
18:57:40 <joepie91> > read 'memes' instead of 'memos'
18:57:40 <lady-3jane> dicks
18:57:41 <joepie91> EVERY TIME
18:57:54 <lady-3jane> but you DO have 3 new memes
18:57:57 <joepie91> lol
18:57:58 <lady-3jane> :3
18:58:16 <joepie91> :43
18:58:17 <DrWhat> DO THE HARLEM SHAKE
18:58:19 <joepie91> :4 *
18:58:24 <joepie91> :4 == bird
18:58:31 <DrWhat> ("3
18:58:35 <joepie91> dino
18:58:36 <lady-3jane> Best way to waste a day: writing a rant about text readability
18:58:37 <DrWhat> ("3 == dino
18:58:41 <joepie91> lady-3jane: oh dear
18:58:43 <DrWhat> Damnit
18:58:48 <joepie91> who's the recipient?
18:58:52 <lady-3jane> HN
18:58:56 <joepie91> lol
18:59:00 <joepie91> and who's the rantee?
18:59:13 <joepie91> so to say
18:59:24 <lady-3jane> I'm giving a few rule-of-thumb prescriptions, but I'm going to call a couple people out
18:59:27 <lady-3jane> so it's a nice long post
18:59:32 <joepie91> :)
18:59:48 <lady-3jane> May not finish until tomorrow, I want it to be perfect
18:59:57 <lady-3jane> also I have to set up a server for it just in case HN rapes my server
19:00:40 <lady-3jane> subdomain elsewhere that I'll just 301 when the traffic subsides
19:00:46 <joepie91> lol
19:00:47 <lady-3jane> :3
19:00:51 <joepie91> how would HN rape your server
19:00:56 <joepie91> you're running nginx right?
19:00:58 <lady-3jane> yeah
19:01:02 <joepie91> then you should be fine
19:01:14 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tm9sc
19:01:17 <DrWhat> Hows that then...
19:01:23 <lady-3jane> my main site runs https, it has a single core 1.8ghz, and the uplink is only 5mbit
19:01:37 <joepie91> if lighttpd can survive a slashdot + reddit frontpage + digg frontpage on a 512MB vps...
19:01:39 <lady-3jane> It'd be pretty easy to knock over
19:01:44 <joepie91> then I;'m sure nginx can do it on less
19:01:47 <joepie91> huh
19:01:49 <joepie91> 1.8ghz is *plenty*
19:01:57 <joepie91> uplink is the only potential problem
19:02:05 <lady-3jane> I'd figure the https is what'll die
19:02:09 <joepie91> DrWhat: much better
19:02:11 <joepie91> lady-3jane: hm.
19:02:14 <lady-3jane> I'm tls only
19:02:14 <DrWhat> ngix on windows have terrable prolems
19:02:16 <joepie91> you don't offer non-ssl?
19:02:18 <lady-3jane> ssl3 isn't available
19:02:18 <joepie91> or non-tls
19:02:21 <lady-3jane> nope
19:02:28 <joepie91> why not..?
19:02:29 <lady-3jane> and 4096bit pubkey
19:02:37 <joepie91> DrWhat: I think the problem there is windows, not nginx
19:02:45 <joepie91> $httpd has problems on windows appears to be a trend
19:02:52 <joepie91> regardless of what $httpd stands for
19:02:54 <joepie91> as long as it's not IIS
19:03:02 <joepie91> because IIS is pretty much baked into the kernel so that doesn't count
19:03:15 <joepie91> (afaik)
19:03:21 <joepie91> lady-3jane: that seems overkill
19:03:21 <joepie91> :P
19:03:29 <lady-3jane> I don't wish to offer non-https for my main website :P
19:03:51 <lady-3jane> also, that's the point
19:03:56 <lady-3jane> turn on ALL of the https options
19:04:08 <lady-3jane> It's still quite fast, I just don't know how to test it for connections per second
19:04:29 <DrWhat> i cant offer https for my website :(
19:04:37 <DrWhat> evony uses https port
19:04:49 <lady-3jane> and if I hit frontpage or something (un fucking likely) I'll blow 10 or 20k pageviews easy
19:05:09 <lady-3jane> and I get roughly 250k hits in a year, so that's no small number
19:05:17 <lady-3jane> wat
19:05:21 <joepie91> lady-3jane: try ab
19:05:21 <joepie91> apachebench
19:05:30 <joepie91> yes, it works with other httpds too
19:05:35 <lady-3jane> I know
19:05:38 <joepie91> pretty much the de facto stresstester :P
19:05:46 <lady-3jane> will it make me a graph?
19:05:51 <lady-3jane> or something I can turn into a graph?
19:05:53 * zxcvbnm <3s graphs
19:05:58 <joepie91> it can output raw-formatted data, yes
19:05:59 * zxcvbnm <3s turning data in graphs
19:06:00 <joepie91> comma separated or w/e
19:06:06 <joepie91> it has a switch for that
19:06:07 <lady-3jane> cool
19:06:08 * zxcvbnm </3s csvs
19:06:09 <joepie91> (machine-readable)
19:06:15 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: :P
19:06:20 <lady-3jane> yeah, I'll throw it into calc or something
19:06:23 <DrWhat> Ok joe i change the notice and ordered it and put form in
19:06:26 <DrWhat> hows this
19:06:26 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmakb
19:06:37 <DrWhat> Oh wait
19:06:39 <DrWhat> Derp
19:06:42 <DrWhat> wrong form
19:06:43 <lady-3jane> your form needs work
19:06:45 <lady-3jane> :>
19:06:46 <joepie91> aside from the somewhat messy layout
19:06:54 <joepie91> it seems okay
19:07:17 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmasb
19:07:18 <DrWhat> There
19:07:53 <zxcvbnm> I'm workin on a new site, called Google. It is going to be a really simple search engine
19:08:03 <zxcvbnm> Anyone think there's a market for that?
19:08:17 <zxcvbnm> fuck. someone already took it :(
19:08:23 <joepie91> zxcvbnm: noone needs that
19:08:26 <joepie91> DMOZ has served us fine for years
19:08:28 <joepie91> so why would you do that
19:08:42 * zxcvbnm has never used dmoz
19:08:44 <joepie91> DrWhat: that looks clear enough
19:08:44 * zxcvbnm don't shame me bro
19:09:17 <zxcvbnm> brb lunchhh
19:16:19 <lady-3jane> okay what else should I touch on
19:16:24 * lady-3jane makes a list of things to focus on
19:16:50 <lady-3jane> this is before I start calling out large publications for shitty font-size's (I'm looking at you, The Atlantic)
19:17:31 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) you have any bitching to pile on?
19:17:45 <joepie91> haha
19:17:45 <joepie91> that depends on how wide your scope is
19:18:09 <lady-3jane> I'm footnoting: Note: this rant also applies to every other site where people consume your content. If you're using anything under maybe 14px font, you're bad and you should feel bad.
19:18:28 * joepie91 sneaks off and changes all 13px to 14px in his stylesheets
19:18:35 * joepie91 walks back hoping lady-3jane didn't see it
19:18:37 <lady-3jane> really 13px?
19:18:42 <joepie91> shit :(
19:18:44 <joepie91> busted
19:18:49 <lady-3jane> there are rendering bugs with odd sized fonts
19:18:49 <joepie91> nah, was kidding :P
19:18:51 <lady-3jane> :P
19:18:53 <joepie91> I know
19:19:03 <joepie91> those rendering bugs sometimes produce very interesting (and desirable) results
19:19:09 <lady-3jane> sometimes, yeah
19:19:12 <lady-3jane> sometimes less so
19:19:21 <joepie91> especially 13 and 15 usually do interesting things
19:19:32 <DrWhat> 11-2
19:19:34 <DrWhat> 11-12
19:19:35 <DrWhat> :)
19:19:40 <lady-3jane> too small!
19:19:42 <joepie91> DrWhat: you shouldn't even be using that
19:19:44 <joepie91> lol
19:19:54 <DrWhat> Who said i was
19:20:07 <lady-3jane> I'm also suggesting a line-height of 1.5em as an easy rule of thumb
19:20:07 <joepie91> noone did, but you implied
19:20:10 <joepie91> :P
19:20:15 <DrWhat> I never implied
19:20:18 <DrWhat> You asumed
19:20:49 <lady-3jane> YOU ASSumed
19:21:10 <DrWhat> ass vacume?
19:21:12 <DrWhat> Where?
19:21:59 <lady-3jane> nom noms
19:22:30 <lady-3jane> Also, I will forever read Homs, Syria as Noms, Syria
19:22:56 <joepie91> lol
19:30:19 <DrWhat> pentest time
19:33:36 <DrWhat> ahh
19:34:01 <DrWhat> the search form is vuln to xxs
19:34:53 <joepie91> pretty sure anonyops told you this like yesterday...
19:37:14 <DrWhat> yeah he did :)
19:37:34 <DrWhat> htmlspecialchars() isnt it?
19:38:58 monod (none@cryto-991ECF96.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #crytocc
19:39:23 <lady-3jane> hmm
19:42:14 <DrWhat> Can i do strip slashes After the sql query so it doesnt show '\\\
19:42:19 <DrWhat> \\\' i mean
19:42:53 <DrWhat> becuase it wont pass the query again will it?
19:42:56 <monod> hello gentlemen
19:43:40 <joepie91> DrWhat: why are you stripping slashes
19:43:43 <joepie91> why are you not using PDO
19:43:53 <joepie91> get rid of all that crap :P
19:43:54 <joepie91> hai monod
19:43:58 <joepie91> you asked/said something, let me scroll back
19:44:01 <DrWhat> :(
19:44:19 <joepie91> DrWhat: http://wiki.hashphp.org/PDO_Tutorial_for_MySQL_Developers
19:44:33 <joepie91> 10:25:24 <monod> tell joepie91: 1) you could implement a function in the loggy that you privately msg it something like "loggy, news?" and it shows you if someone has named you while you were offline since last time you left the channel (is this clear?); 2) I wanted to say to you: Khan Academy has a BitTorrent App! :)
19:44:33 <joepie91> 10:26:17 <monod> oh, and wonder about offline messages in IRC (like other instant messaging do), wouldn't that be useful?
19:44:33 <joepie91> 10:26:44 <monod> they may not be useful tho
19:44:33 <joepie91> 10:27:20 <monod> I think it could be excessive work/load for the server, after all...
19:44:44 <monod> of course :)
19:44:46 <DrWhat> ahh
19:44:55 <monod> ^ lo
19:44:56 <monod> l
19:44:58 <joepie91> as for loggy modifications - I might do this later on, but it requires quite a bit of work and not many advantages so it's very lowo n priority last atm
19:45:00 <joepie91> low on *
19:45:01 <joepie91> list *
19:45:10 <joepie91> as for khan, how do you mean bittorrent app?
19:45:19 <joepie91> as for offline messages, /msg memoserv help :)
19:45:30 <joepie91> you can leave messages for any offline registered nick (with nickserv)
19:45:41 <joepie91> and when they connect again, memoserv will notify them that there are messages waiting
19:46:31 <monod> oh, that's cool :) for the kan app, you just have to have bittorrent or utorrent and then you have some features on the left side (downloadling, seeding, active, inactive, etc..), among which there is a tab named "Apps"
19:46:44 <monod> there you can install some sort of plug-ins for BT
19:47:00 <lady-3jane> oh, you mean utorrent apps
19:47:00 <monod> among which TED Talks (interesting, not everytime tho) and Khan
19:47:01 <joepie91> ah, I use neither bittorrent nor utorrent
19:47:06 <lady-3jane> which are being removed from utorrent
19:47:13 <joepie91> yeah, I know those
19:47:17 <lady-3jane> nobody used them
19:47:18 <lady-3jane> haha
19:47:31 <monod> in fact, because you just start torrents you find on the web
19:47:31 <joepie91> monod: I use Tixati
19:47:31 <joepie91> :p
19:47:40 <joepie91> http://tixati.com/
19:47:41 <monod> Hmm, I'll check it out
19:47:44 <monod> oh, thanks
19:47:54 <monod> you may have done better tho :P
19:47:54 <joepie91> if you've ever used winmx
19:47:57 <joepie91> you'll recognize tixati
19:48:00 <joepie91> hmm?
19:48:06 <monod> never used tixati, aaaaand
19:48:23 * lady-3jane uses transmission
19:48:24 <monod> tixati.redirect.cryto.net <<<< like this xD
19:48:32 <monod> lady-3jane, me too, on linux
19:48:34 <joepie91> lol
19:48:39 <joepie91> transmission, meh
19:48:39 <monod> :D
19:48:42 <joepie91> it uses too many resources
19:48:48 <monod> Transmission is cool tho
19:48:51 <joepie91> and I'm not very impressed by its magnet link resolution time
19:48:59 <monod> plenty of features, I mean
19:49:01 <joepie91> (at the speed of slow, to steal someones wording)
19:49:10 <joepie91> monod: Tixati has faaaaar more options
19:49:10 <joepie91> lol
19:49:16 <monod> ah, ok
19:49:22 <joepie91> Tixati appears to basically just implement every single feature in the BT protocol into its UI
19:49:22 <lady-3jane> uses too many resources > He says to the person trying to seed 4600 torrents
19:49:27 <monod> I once read a wikipedia comparison among bittorent clients
19:49:39 <joepie91> monod: for Tixati, you can set the bandwidth priority and limit for one peer on one torrent
19:49:47 <joepie91> that's how fine-grained it is
19:49:52 <monod> :D
19:49:55 <lady-3jane> tixati shat a brick last time I tried to put stuff into it
19:50:01 <joepie91> and the amount of settings is just "what"
19:50:08 <joepie91> lady-3jane: bricks in, bricks out
19:50:10 <joepie91> :P
19:50:23 <lady-3jane> transmission and utorrent handle my shit
19:50:27 <joepie91> anyway, not having any issues with tixati here
19:50:29 <lady-3jane> even rtorrent, if I'm nice
19:50:29 <monod> Imma tryin it then, tixati :)
19:50:39 <monod> lady-3jane, LOL
19:50:43 <monod> "handle my shit"
19:50:53 <DrWhat> <19:49>[Box]: PRIMEFUCKINGRICA
19:50:53 <DrWhat> <19:49>[Box]: DRFUCKINGWHAT
19:50:53 <DrWhat> <19:50>[Box]: ROKUFUCKINGKANNO
19:50:53 <DrWhat> <19:50>[Box]: BLOODFUCKINGSTAR
19:50:53 <DrWhat> <19:50>[Box]: I can go on and on :)
19:50:53 <DrWhat> <19:50>[Bloodstar]: having fun?
19:50:56 <DrWhat> Dafuck
19:51:11 <lady-3jane> oh yeah that's right, you're not a native english speaker I always forget that. Awesome phrase, eh? :D
19:51:21 <lady-3jane> It's a favorite of mine
19:51:23 <lady-3jane> :>
19:51:39 <monod> I don't understand :/
19:51:57 <lady-3jane> It's like "taking care of"
19:52:04 <lady-3jane> not breaking
19:52:33 <lady-3jane> or... "transmission and utorrent perform the way I want them to"
19:52:41 <monod> oooooops
19:52:43 <monod> nooo XD
19:52:47 <lady-3jane> haha what
19:52:48 <monod> I DID understand THAT
19:52:50 <monod> :D
19:52:53 <lady-3jane> oh, okay
19:52:53 <DrWhat> isnt tranmission a torrent client
19:52:56 * lady-3jane didn't know
19:52:57 <lady-3jane> yes
19:53:00 <DrWhat> ok
19:53:03 <DrWhat> Yes it sucks
19:53:03 <monod> I thought you were talking about
19:53:09 <monod> PRIMEFUCKINGRICA etc
19:53:17 <DrWhat> ?
19:53:18 <lady-3jane> nope :D
19:53:18 <monod> lawl
19:53:23 <lady-3jane> DrWhat:) hmm?
19:53:33 <DrWhat> hmmm?
19:53:35 <DrWhat> What?
19:53:37 <monod> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm=
19:53:47 <lady-3jane> You made a value statement with nothing to back it up
19:53:48 <DrWhat> hmmmmm=what the fuck you saying
19:53:49 <lady-3jane> :)
19:53:58 <wh1t3r4bb1t> herro
19:54:28 <DrWhat> http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/70528-bittorrent-clients-transmission-sucks-do-i.html4
19:54:29 <DrWhat> http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/switcher-hangout/70528-bittorrent-clients-transmission-sucks-do-i.html
19:54:32 <lady-3jane> NP: [Ugly Duckling - Dumb it Down] [Taste the Secret] [910kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
19:54:53 <lady-3jane> Oh? You link me to a website because you have no personal experience with it, orrr?
19:55:03 <DrWhat> I do
19:55:09 <DrWhat> I used it for 2 minutes
19:55:22 <lady-3jane> Do tell!
19:55:23 <DrWhat> and never used it again
19:56:01 <lady-3jane> hahaha a post from 2007
19:56:03 <lady-3jane> you're rich
19:56:17 <lady-3jane> It detects fat32 now, and has move torrent download location function
19:56:43 monod has quit (User quit: rebooooooooot)
19:56:59 <DrWhat> Talk about get with the times
19:57:13 <lady-3jane> and finally supports udp trackers... I actually built nightlies to help test that shit.
19:57:29 <lady-3jane> but I think that was early last year or so
19:57:43 <joepie91> DrWhat: at the point where you are bitching at resolved problems because there are no current problems you are aware of to bitch at
19:57:47 <lady-3jane> the times of 5 years ago when utorrent also had neither of those functions?
19:57:48 <joepie91> a red flag should go up in your mind
19:57:53 <joepie91> telling you to stfu and try it before judging
19:58:07 <joepie91> j/s
19:58:21 <joepie91> I dislike Transmission, but I have valid reasons that do still apply
19:58:38 <lady-3jane> It's close to time to try out tixati again, but I don't have enough public torrents haha (it's banned on most private trackers because it has spoofing your UA built into the gui)
19:58:40 <joepie91> and saying it 'sucks' would be stretching it
19:58:56 <joepie91> it doe?
19:58:59 <joepie91> does *
19:59:02 <lady-3jane> yep
19:59:05 <lady-3jane> somewhere
19:59:06 <lady-3jane> haha
19:59:43 <lady-3jane> maybe they removed it, I guess that's possible, but it was there a year ago when I tried tixati out
19:59:49 <joepie91> I can't find it
19:59:52 <joepie91> but my version is old
19:59:54 <joepie91> I cbf to update
19:59:57 <lady-3jane> hehe
20:03:26 <lady-3jane> hmm
20:03:47 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) prefer bullet points of problems and prescriptions or long text explaining it all
20:04:09 <joepie91> ?
20:04:23 <lady-3jane> trying to decide how to structure the writing
20:04:29 <joepie91> oh
20:04:30 <joepie91> text
20:04:45 <joepie91> divided into sections
20:04:56 * lady-3jane nods
20:05:02 MRdjst0rm (MRdjst0rm@cryto-454686D9.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc
20:05:02 <lady-3jane> that's how I was taking notes :>
20:05:22 <lady-3jane> I sometimes feel weird for thinking about information design
20:05:37 <lady-3jane> Because it's so glaringly apparently that few others do
20:06:20 <lady-3jane> I have nearly a page of single spaced notes
20:06:23 <joepie91> people suck at communication
20:06:24 MRdjst0rm has quit (User quit: Connection closed)
20:06:27 <lady-3jane> and I'm not even looking at examples yet
20:06:27 <joepie91> worst part, it's not inherent to human nature
20:06:29 <joepie91> it's taught
20:06:35 <lady-3jane> yeah
20:06:44 <lady-3jane> which means you've gotta be willing to learn if you want to be good at it
20:09:33 * lady-3jane asks for a small vm
20:10:03 <lady-3jane> openbsd, 64m ram, 4g hd space
20:10:21 * joepie91 no has that
20:10:23 <lady-3jane> nom nom nom
20:10:28 <lady-3jane> It'll be my HN box
20:10:36 <joepie91> lol
20:11:02 <lady-3jane> I'm going to make nginx cache the whole site in ram (one page, haha)
20:11:17 <lady-3jane> pre-gzip'd
20:11:31 <joepie91> heh
20:11:51 * lady-3jane wants to hear the whooshing noise
20:12:10 <lady-3jane> when you make it over 100 connections per second, servers whoosh
20:12:13 <lady-3jane> just so you know
20:13:21 <joepie91> lolol
20:14:09 <lady-3jane> It's a picture in my head
20:14:30 <lady-3jane> I feel like I'm much more animistic than most people haha, even though I'm technically athiest. I don't think they clash
20:15:01 <lady-3jane> hmm, animism isn't quite right
20:15:11 <lady-3jane> I don't think there's a soul either
20:15:21 <lady-3jane> so It's more like "everything on earth is an automaton"
20:15:42 <lady-3jane> I treat most things like people lol
20:17:48 <DrWhat> you only know me as a freind
20:17:56 <DrWhat> but i think im in love with you once again
20:18:02 <DrWhat> i know its wrong but it feels right
20:18:06 <DrWhat> everything you do well
20:18:10 <DrWhat> it just turns me on
20:19:11 * lady-3jane not sure if trolling or serious or song lyrics
20:19:12 <DrWhat> Since you went away, my heart breaks everyday
20:19:13 <DrWhat> Read more: ROBBIE WILLIAMS - YOU KNOW ME LYRICS
20:19:38 <DrWhat> :P
20:19:42 zest (zest@8FBB3504.8BCEEF84.37683FEF.IP) has joined #crytocc
20:20:02 <lady-3jane> I'mma learn how to use github and make pull requests for bootstrap I think
20:20:16 <DrWhat> O_O
20:20:23 <DrWhat> what is there to learn
20:20:29 <lady-3jane> git makes no fucking sense to me
20:20:35 <lady-3jane> too many moving parts
20:20:46 <lady-3jane> too many commands to learn for using it once every two years
20:20:47 <DrWhat> git --pull https://github.com/user/repo.git
20:21:11 <lady-3jane> that isn't the hard part
20:21:18 <lady-3jane> try changing code and pushing it back
20:21:19 <lady-3jane> that's hard
20:21:30 <DrWhat> really?
20:21:34 <lady-3jane> Yeah.
20:21:35 <DrWhat> Its as simple as a right click
20:21:41 <lady-3jane> where
20:21:51 <lady-3jane> right click what
20:21:55 <lady-3jane> cause that's my favorites menu
20:21:57 <zest> ))
20:22:21 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmmyd
20:22:25 <DrWhat> :P
20:22:32 Mrwizard (Mrwizard@cryto-C1593238.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #crytocc
20:22:42 <lady-3jane> ahh yes, an operating system I don't have
20:22:58 <DrWhat> there are linux option
20:23:00 <DrWhat> there are linux options
20:23:09 <lady-3jane> do they integrate with e17?
20:23:17 <DrWhat> i dont know
20:23:19 <lady-3jane> or must I learn all of the retarded cli commands
20:23:19 <DrWhat> ask them
20:23:21 <zest> git commit ?
20:23:35 <lady-3jane> zest:) pushing to github is the problem
20:23:55 <lady-3jane> there's a bunch of setup to do, and the commands aren't easily memorable when you only use them once every two years
20:24:43 <lady-3jane> so mostly I just don't push my code anywhere
20:25:56 <zest> git push origin master ?
20:26:11 <lady-3jane> that's one of them, yeah
20:26:37 pzuraq has quit (Input/output error)
20:26:48 <Mrwizard> anyone home?
20:27:02 <joepie91> seeing as quite a few people are talking, I'd imagine so, yes :)
20:27:10 <Mrwizard> hmm
20:27:17 <Mrwizard> looking for gatsby or dante
20:27:22 <Mrwizard> name also plumber
20:27:38 <joepie91> you're more likely to find him in an anon channel, than here, I'd imagine
20:27:46 <zest> all notorious guys )
20:27:56 <Mrwizard> yes
20:32:38 <DrWhat> evomap works
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmdcl
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmdfl
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmdjs
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmdlc
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmds2
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmdtt
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmdwx
20:32:40 <DrWhat> http://prntscr.com/tmdz8
20:32:43 <DrWhat> :)
20:33:02 <DrWhat> wait did i alreay paste these?
20:35:04 <lady-3jane> I think you meant "wait did I already spam these?"
20:35:20 <DrWhat> No spam
20:35:58 <zest> these tables looks scary but seems like it something cool ...)
20:35:59 <lady-3jane> 8 lines per second, I'd say it spam
20:36:17 <lady-3jane> s/it/it\'s/
20:36:45 <MK_FG> Flood, maybe? Spam seem to imply ads
20:37:20 * DrWhat facepalms
20:37:31 <DrWhat> Just call it a stream
20:37:57 <zest> yeah spam for money )
20:38:05 <DrWhat> Spam for sex
20:38:19 <zest> no, no, money for sex, spam for money
20:38:27 <DrWhat> Money is worth nothing
20:38:56 <DrWhat> And so also is sex
20:39:08 <zest> well, can't argue with you
20:40:36 <DrWhat> Also
20:40:43 <DrWhat> You are not paying for the sex
20:40:49 <DrWhat> You are paying for the person
20:40:59 <DrWhat> You dont have to have sex with them
20:41:11 <DrWhat> Some just want somone to talk to
20:41:21 <DrWhat> So the pay for the person
20:41:26 <DrWhat> and that person is cale d aphrapist
20:41:34 <zest> omg
20:41:43 <DrWhat> spelling fail i know
20:41:44 <zest> stop man
20:42:21 <zest> what or who is aphrapist ???
20:43:02 <DrWhat> It ment to say perapist
20:43:07 <DrWhat> O_o
20:43:09 <DrWhat> Pherapist
20:43:17 <zest> )
20:43:29 <DrWhat> do you get the gist
20:43:37 <DrWhat> of p[aying for a person
20:43:46 pzuraq (pzuraq@cryto-7B09657A.ucsc.edu) has joined #crytocc
20:44:19 <DrWhat> pzuraq What you studying?
20:46:58 <zxcvbnm> Therapist*
20:47:35 <zxcvbnm> Aphrapist is like the equivalent of sean connery saying, " I'll take the rapists for 500"
20:48:01 <pzuraq> DrWhat: Computer science
20:48:24 <zest> )
20:49:46 <zest> you know botnet operators receive >90 years sentences the same as rapists ...
20:50:11 <AnonForecast> everyone meet Mrwizard. hes working on some techie project that went over my head so i brought him here
20:50:22 <AnonForecast> Mrwizard, can you explain it again?
20:50:40 <AnonForecast> (good luck. he lost me at "array")
20:53:46 <Mrwizard> oh lol its still a work in progress
20:54:41 <Mrwizard> the idea of using traditional 256 rsa encryption, using a secondary key to generate padding information to prevent side channel analysis on both sides
20:55:35 <Mrwizard> i know you guys are busy but is this a good idea or should i keep working on other methods?
20:56:13 foolex has quit (Ping timeout)
20:56:19 <MK_FG> You certainly shouldn't use 256-bit rsa keys, it takes seconds to factor these iirc
20:56:35 <MK_FG> It's in no way "traditional"
20:57:22 <Mrwizard> what would you recommend then?
20:57:31 <Mrwizard> im working primarily on the pad generation
20:58:06 <MK_FG> Um, you just need pad?
20:58:14 <MK_FG> Use /dev/urandom, or something ;)
20:58:18 <Mrwizard> haha naah
20:58:51 <Mrwizard> i had this weird idea of having 3 channels (1 payload, 1 pad, 1 fake payload)
20:58:51 <MK_FG> Padding for data smaller than rsa keys? rsa-oaep
20:59:08 <Mrwizard> using trash data, and then having some data that is easily decrypted
20:59:17 <Mrwizard> but doesnt reveal the actual payload
20:59:34 foolex (foolex@78EA513B.7DC890E0.CEC56216.IP) has joined #crytocc
20:59:49 <Mrwizard> where is joe plumber when you need him D:
20:59:51 <MK_FG> I think it's usually referred to as "chaff"
21:00:26 <Mrwizard> havent been really into crypto until just recently
21:00:47 <Mrwizard> what shoud my goal be aside from protecting the data?
21:01:21 <MK_FG> Giving me all your money!
21:01:31 <Mrwizard> haha
21:01:34 <Mrwizard> norly
21:01:37 <MK_FG> Seriously, it's a strange question to ask
21:01:54 <MK_FG> You want me to tell you what to do or what?
21:01:59 <Mrwizard> haha no
21:02:06 <Mrwizard> i need better direction i believe
21:02:09 <MK_FG> If anything...
21:02:16 <MK_FG> I'd say, use some sane protocol
21:02:29 <MK_FG> And don't even go near any low-level primitives yet
21:02:44 <MK_FG> Unless it's the goal in itself
21:02:54 <Mrwizard> i need a mentor i think
21:02:57 <MK_FG> (like, "I want to play with rsa and ciphers")
21:03:34 <Mrwizard> its been so long since i've done anything in my IDE
21:06:24 <zest> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/dkim-vulnerability-widespread/#comments
21:08:52 <joepie91> something bothers me about this form layout: http://awesomescreenshot.com/0f9ykof42
21:08:56 <joepie91> but I'm not quite sure what
21:10:19 <zxcvbnm> i don't think it's awful but I don't like it
21:10:39 <zxcvbnm> it's kind of a long box to contain stuff only on the left side oifit
21:10:47 <zxcvbnm> !=feng shui
21:11:24 <zxcvbnm> what if you had a small picture on the right side
21:11:29 <zxcvbnm> logo, or some people smiling
21:11:43 <zxcvbnm> or, format that box to be closer on the right side
21:11:49 <zxcvbnm> and have a picture off to the right
21:11:51 <zxcvbnm> outside of the box.
21:13:32 <joepie91> >people smiling
21:13:35 <joepie91> absolutely not lol
21:13:41 <joepie91> anyway
21:13:54 <joepie91> my primary issue is with the layout of the form itself
21:15:27 <DrWhat> Who highlighted me
21:16:13 <DrWhat> ahh pzuraq
21:17:39 <pzuraq> sup
21:17:55 <DrWhat> is your name juan?
21:21:01 joepie91 has parted #crytocc (None)
21:21:08 joepie91 (joepie91@joepie91.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc
21:21:10 <joepie91> derp
21:23:03 <lady-3jane> joepie91:) the thing that bothers me about that form is the hanging text under the bottom pairs of fields
21:23:37 <lady-3jane> it completely negates the attempt at vertically aligned forms
21:24:00 <joepie91> lady-3jane: http://awesomescreenshot.com/065ykrh31
21:24:02 <joepie91> how about that
21:24:03 <joepie91> ?
21:25:27 <lady-3jane> Much better
21:25:51 <joepie91> :D
21:25:55 <joepie91> I think that was what bothered me as well
21:26:01 <joepie91> because it doesn't really bother me much anymore (the form)
21:26:06 * lady-3jane nods
21:26:07 <pzuraq> no
21:26:09 <pzuraq> no it is not
21:27:23 <zxcvbnm> joepie91: http://i50.tinypic.com/25juts7.png
21:27:26 <zxcvbnm> :P
21:27:40 <joepie91> no
21:27:42 <zxcvbnm> lol
21:27:43 <joepie91> absolutely not
21:27:44 <joepie91> lol
21:27:44 <zxcvbnm> hahaha
21:27:46 <joepie91> no way in hell
21:27:54 <zxcvbnm> I almost went really cheesey
21:27:58 <joepie91> I'm not adding any elements that do not have a function :P
21:28:07 <joepie91> lol
21:28:10 <joepie91> if this isn't really cheesy
21:28:12 <joepie91> then what is D:
21:28:13 <zxcvbnm> lol
21:28:16 <zxcvbnm> I'm glad you asked..
21:28:28 <joepie91> oh god no
21:28:30 <zxcvbnm> haha
21:28:31 * joepie91 /parts
21:29:23 * lady-3jane waits
21:29:31 * zxcvbnm isn't actually making another
21:29:35 <lady-3jane> cute girl in sports bra smiling?
21:29:36 <lady-3jane> damn
21:29:54 * zxcvbnm was considering other options
21:30:08 <lady-3jane> preferably with her non-white friend in the background out of focus, so you can still retain the illusion of non-euro-centrism
21:30:12 * lady-3jane laughs
21:30:29 <lady-3jane> man, fuck advertising in this country
21:30:32 <lady-3jane> lol
21:30:39 <joepie91> s/in this country//
21:30:50 * lady-3jane saw that coming
21:31:04 <joepie91> would be more worried if you didn't
21:31:04 <joepie91> :P
21:31:30 <lady-3jane> Hey man, I have stood next to you in railing adverts
21:31:30 <lady-3jane> :P
21:31:42 <zxcvbnm> Ok Ok I couldn't resist
21:31:47 <joepie91> correct
21:31:48 <zxcvbnm> A different angle
21:31:49 <joepie91> nonono
21:31:49 <zxcvbnm> http://tinypic.com/r/358qhbs/6
21:31:54 * joepie91 left #crytocc
21:31:58 <zxcvbnm> lol..
21:32:13 <joepie91> OH GOD NO
21:32:13 <wh1t3r4bb1t> perl or pascal?
21:32:14 <joepie91> MAKE IT GO AWAY
21:32:15 <joepie91> IT BURNS
21:32:21 <zxcvbnm> rofl but he wants to be your friend
21:32:25 <zxcvbnm> How was your evening?
21:32:28 <joepie91> THE BONZI, IT BURNS
21:32:29 * AnonForecast hisses
21:32:49 <zxcvbnm> I talk! I email! I browse!
21:32:55 <zxcvbnm> I download! I laugh!
21:32:57 * Mrwizard is confused
21:33:12 <joepie91> Mrwizard: google 'bonzi buddy'
21:33:14 * Mrwizard downloads and executes without though
21:33:18 <Mrwizard> thought*
21:33:39 * Mrwizard shoots himself
21:33:40 * lady-3jane pimp slaps Mrwizard
21:34:40 <Mrwizard> funny my gf says she had that
21:34:51 <zxcvbnm> it terrorized young and old alike
21:34:52 <Mrwizard> i've never seen it before tbh
21:36:11 <joepie91> On February 18, 2004, the Federal Trade Commission released a statement indicating that Bonzi Software, Inc. was ordered to pay $75,000 in fees, among other aspects, for violating the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act by collecting personal information from children under the age of 13 with BonziBuddy.[4]
21:36:13 <joepie91> honestly
21:36:17 <Mrwizard> i saw that
21:36:20 <joepie91> COPPA just seems like a sort of fallback catch-all
21:36:23 <joepie91> to sue anyone that does shady shit
21:36:26 <joepie91> but nothing illegal
21:36:26 <joepie91> lol
21:36:37 <joepie91> I can't remember a single case of COPPA being used for what the name suggests
21:36:43 <Mrwizard> what about those mugshot websites?
21:36:52 <joepie91> and not as a sort of loophole to sue controversial stuff
21:36:53 <Mrwizard> you know they display everyone including younger people
21:37:03 <joepie91> Mrwizard: since when do under-13s even get public mugshots
21:37:05 <joepie91> :|
21:37:19 <Mrwizard> joepie91: since the state stopped caring about posting pictures publically
21:37:26 <joepie91> pretty sure law doesn't allow for that tbh
21:37:29 <joepie91> public mugshots of minors
21:37:39 <Mrwizard> i tried contacitng the county to resolve it
21:37:44 <joepie91> okay why am I distracted
21:37:48 * joepie91 has to get back to work
21:37:49 <lady-3jane> dunno
21:37:51 <Mrwizard> my fault
21:37:54 HiveResearch (HiveResear@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc
21:38:02 <joepie91> no, my brains fault
21:38:03 * joepie91 off to maek stuff
21:38:05 * lady-3jane writes up examples of shitty font sizes
21:38:24 * Mrwizard creates more threads to do absolutly nothing
21:38:42 * wh1t3r4bb1t smokes some hash oil.
21:39:00 * zxcvbnm is only a little bit high and jealous of white
21:39:12 * zxcvbnm and has been on support call for an hour aAGHHH
21:39:18 * Mrwizard pours hash oil on motherboard, "maybe it'll go faster now?"
21:39:42 * wh1t3r4bb1t smokes the keyboard
21:39:49 * zxcvbnm "premium support" means they will never answer the phone..
21:39:54 * lady-3jane only smokes when it's free
21:39:58 <wh1t3r4bb1t> *motherboard
21:40:00 * lady-3jane :3
21:40:13 * zxcvbnm smokes when it's free and cheap and sometimes expensive
21:40:30 * Mrwizard "america 100mbps = $300/mo europe 100mbps = $50/mo, fuck you comcast"
21:40:47 <DrWhat> :)
21:41:01 <DrWhat> not just 100mbit 100/50mbit
21:41:04 <Mrwizard> yeah
21:41:05 * zxcvbnm Google Fiber. Mooaaar !!!
21:41:07 <Mrwizard> the 100/10
21:41:14 <Mrwizard> why cant i have 100/100 :3
21:41:18 <DrWhat> I pay $100 for 300/200bmit
21:41:23 <Mrwizard> where u at?
21:41:25 * zxcvbnm has 1000
21:41:31 <DrWhat> ermmm
21:41:36 <lady-3jane> I want to pay 50/mo for 60 up 5 down
21:41:37 <DrWhat> Korea
21:41:39 <DrWhat> :3
21:41:41 <Mrwizard> haha
21:41:55 * lady-3jane doesn't give a fuck about download speeds
21:41:58 <Mrwizard> i was in the trial for 100mbit from comcast
21:42:05 <Mrwizard> they still throttle
21:42:44 <DrWhat> I have epic download spead
21:42:54 <DrWhat> Let me start a torrent download and see what i get :)
21:42:56 <lady-3jane> I got yelled at by my isp for violating the soft cap... they give me 250g/mo and I used 756g
21:42:56 <Mrwizard> i just use dedi's now
21:42:59 <Mrwizard> then ftp it down
21:43:21 <Mrwizard> lol i got yelled at with a few thousand copyright violation emails
21:43:28 <Mrwizard> when i ran a few tor nodes
21:43:28 <lady-3jane> Now I just pay for the top tier and get shit service but they don't bother me about using 700g in a month
21:43:43 <Mrwizard> lol i used 500g on my 4g phone
21:43:53 * zest bug
21:43:58 <DrWhat> Current bandwidth : [Downstream: 2.77MB/s] × [Upstream: 81.63KB/s]
21:44:00 <lady-3jane> they'd throw you in a debtors prison for that shit 'round here
21:44:08 <DrWhat> Current bandwidth : [Downstream: 13.72MB/s] × [Upstream: 338.91KB/s]
21:44:15 <DrWhat> Current bandwidth : [Downstream: 20.49MB/s] × [Upstream: 490.01KB/s]
21:44:16 <lady-3jane> loloverhead
21:44:25 <DrWhat> Current bandwidth : [Downstream: 23.18MB/s] × [Upstream: 566.69KB/s]
21:44:27 <Mrwizard> Wanted bandwidth : [Downstream: 123.77MB/s] × [Upstream: 100.63MB/s]
21:44:36 <lady-3jane> lol
21:44:47 <DrWhat> Current bandwidth : [Downstream: 22.6MB/s] × [Upstream: 809.88KB/s]
21:44:49 <Mrwizard> Actual bandwidth : [Downstream: 123.77b/s] × [Upstream: 100.63b/s]
21:44:56 <DrWhat> lol
21:45:08 <DrWhat> PS thats in bytse no bits
21:45:14 <DrWhat> Current bandwidth : [Downstream: 23.43MB/s] × [Upstream: 568.82KB/s]
21:45:14 <Mrwizard> thats baud bro
21:45:18 <Mrwizard> dont u remember
21:45:27 <Mrwizard> 180 baud is the shit these days
21:45:34 <zxcvbnm> I'm at 52.42 Mbps
21:45:39 <zxcvbnm> download
21:45:40 <zxcvbnm> and...
21:45:44 <Mrwizard> can you believe its async now
21:45:45 <zxcvbnm> 10.54 Mbps
21:45:48 <zxcvbnm> upload
21:45:56 <DrWhat> and the download has finished
21:46:09 <Mrwizard> use dedi's
21:46:09 <DrWhat> 1gb in a 2 minutes
21:46:16 <Mrwizard> ftp it down from them
21:46:40 * zest a lot of packets
21:46:43 * DrWhat is aw a y "watching a movie!" L o g: on P a ger: off
21:46:43 *** DrWhat is now known as DrAway
21:48:00 <Mrwizard> anyone familiar raid arrays?
21:48:03 <Mrwizard> familar with*
21:49:12 <lady-3jane> lol
21:49:50 <Mrwizard> wut?
21:50:26 <wh1t3r4bb1t> shmamilliar shmith?
21:50:35 <wh1t3r4bb1t> shrade shrarays?
21:50:50 <Mrwizard> shyes
21:51:17 <Mrwizard> ARECA ARC-1882IX-12-4GNC
21:51:22 <wh1t3r4bb1t> I know they are arrays of HDs
21:51:42 <Mrwizard> is that a decent enough card for 20 drives?
21:51:47 <lady-3jane> I dunno specific ones
21:51:49 <wh1t3r4bb1t> I know that SSD eliminates need for raid
21:51:58 <lady-3jane> haha no
21:52:02 <Mrwizard> lol
21:52:04 <Mrwizard> this guy
21:52:09 <Mrwizard> raid ur ssd
21:52:13 <Mrwizard> get 3.2GB/s
21:52:17 <wh1t3r4bb1t> nO
21:52:25 <wh1t3r4bb1t> That would be unethical
21:52:39 <lady-3jane> you don't know what the meaning of the word ethics is
21:52:54 <Mrwizard> raid 60 ftw
21:52:57 <wh1t3r4bb1t> it means don't do bad stuff
21:53:04 <lady-3jane> because what you meant to say, is "That would be AWESOME"
21:53:07 <Mrwizard> it means
21:53:09 <wh1t3r4bb1t> raiding SDD is bad stuff
21:53:13 <Mrwizard> naah
21:53:18 * lady-3jane kekeke's
21:53:26 <Mrwizard> ssd for system and applications, and cache
21:53:36 <Mrwizard> hdd array for archieving and storage
21:53:37 <lady-3jane> indicate to zfs that it's an SSD -> problem solved
21:53:48 <Mrwizard> i havent used zfs yet
21:53:53 <lady-3jane> It's so sexy
21:53:56 <Mrwizard> i've heard its nice for software raid
21:53:59 <wh1t3r4bb1t> raid is OLD
21:54:01 * lady-3jane nods
21:54:01 <Mrwizard> compared to intel's shitt
21:54:05 <Mrwizard> raid is not old
21:54:10 <wh1t3r4bb1t> too old for me to fux fif
21:54:14 <wh1t3r4bb1t> wif*
21:54:29 * joepie91 switches to IRC client, sees retardedness, switches back to editor
21:54:30 <Mrwizard> jbod is old skool
21:54:56 <lady-3jane> IRC is 20 this year, apparently it's not too old
21:55:04 <Mrwizard> lol the last rfc
21:55:18 <lady-3jane> 1459 <3
21:55:20 <Mrwizard> was almost 15 years ago
21:55:31 <Mrwizard> so much for redudancy in the rfc
21:55:41 <lady-3jane> why change something that isn't broken
21:55:41 * wh1t3r4bb1t nostalgias
21:55:52 <Mrwizard> they were going to add something to decentralize it
21:55:54 <Mrwizard> i thought
21:56:09 <wh1t3r4bb1t> my penis?
21:56:09 <lady-3jane> competing server link implementations?
21:56:15 <wh1t3r4bb1t> it's detatchable!
21:56:21 <lady-3jane> ohshiii
21:56:23 <Mrwizard> thats extra
21:56:26 <wh1t3r4bb1t> = decentralized
21:56:27 <Mrwizard> you must pay
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21:56:43 <Art> y0y0y0y joepie91 up in this bitch
21:57:00 <Mrwizard> yes i arrested him earlier
21:57:03 <lady-3jane> he's coding
21:57:11 <lady-3jane> trying not to get distracted
21:57:19 <Mrwizard> is he a slave?
21:57:32 <lady-3jane> sometimes
21:57:45 <Mrwizard> what or who is the master then?
21:57:56 <Art> I know, but I've got a really good feeling about Hagrid's. I feel it's the place to be tonight. Do you know what I mean?
21:58:24 * Mrwizard awkward smile
21:59:18 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Raid is so last millenium though
21:59:42 <Art> ./distract_joepai.sh
21:59:51 <Mrwizard> http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/251735-new-raid-level-recommendations-from-dell
21:59:56 <Mrwizard> raid 6 > raid 5
22:00:01 <Mrwizard> raid 5 is old
22:00:01 <wh1t3r4bb1t> why would I want to hook up 10 drives that have the exact same data, essentially wasting the space to hold multiples of the same shit?
22:00:26 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Specially when SDD is SOOOO much reliability
22:00:53 <joepie91> wh1t3r4bb1t: SSDs have a significantly shorter lifespan and noticeably less storage space for the same money
22:00:54 <Mrwizard> bcs
22:00:58 <Mrwizard> ^^^
22:01:00 <joepie91> so, what the hell are you going on about
22:01:01 <Mrwizard> thansk joe
22:01:06 <joepie91> :|
22:01:12 <Mrwizard> i've been trying to prove my point
22:01:16 <joepie91> not quite sure where you're getting this 'reliable' thing from
22:01:18 <Mrwizard> and ask if i've bought the right card
22:01:22 <Art> joepie, you read all my memos and didn't respond to any of them. lol awww
22:01:40 <Mrwizard> does anyone know much about raid cards?
22:01:45 <joepie91> Art: indeed, been too busy
22:02:06 <Mrwizard> wh1t3r4bb1t: ssd's might be more reliable physically, but in reality data doesnt last as long
22:02:13 <joepie91> anyway, Art, tl;dr
22:02:23 <joepie91> priorities: trivial, low, normal, high, critical
22:02:38 <joepie91> types: notice, informational, warning, error
22:02:44 <joepie91> classes: realtime, time-sensitive, archivable
22:02:50 <joepie91> that's all specification there is for now
22:02:51 <Art> I have over 44 padlocks from dumpsters. You jelly?
22:03:00 <joepie91> I prefer taking the food over taking the padlocks
22:03:03 <joepie91> but okay
22:03:06 <Art> hahaha
22:03:19 <Art> I'm liberating them man
22:03:26 <joepie91> still, can't eat padlocks
22:03:29 <joepie91> or well, maybe you can
22:03:31 <joepie91> but it's not advisable
22:03:33 <Art> loling
22:03:39 <Mrwizard> joepie91: what do you think about that raid card?
22:04:00 <joepie91> Mrwizard: my knowledge of RAID cards is extremely minimal
22:04:09 <joepie91> to the point of knowing what they are and that's pretty much it
22:04:22 <Art> joepie91, thanks, that abstraction is perfect
22:04:22 <Mrwizard> joepie91: aw ok, well hopefully it works
22:04:23 <joepie91> MK_FG might know more?
22:04:28 <Mrwizard> wiring 20 drives to it
22:04:53 <Mrwizard> !seen MK_FG
22:05:12 <Mrwizard> MK_FG: u there? says ur not idle
22:08:39 <wh1t3r4bb1t> RAID has too many negatives to make a positive.
22:08:59 <joepie91> sigh
22:09:06 <joepie91> wh1t3r4bb1t, your arguments against RAID so far:
22:09:17 <joepie91> * it's less reliable than SSD (false statement, unless proven otherwise)
22:09:28 <joepie91> * it's old (not sure how this is relevant, or how you even define 'old'?)
22:09:37 <joepie91> [/list]
22:09:56 <joepie91> so eh, mind pointing out all those 'negatives'
22:09:57 <joepie91> because I don't see any..
22:10:40 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Point 1: For example, when a HDD fails in a RAID 5 set, the system will rebuild the data on a spare drive that replaces the failed hard disk drive. The storage system then exercises every sector on every HDD in the RAID set to reconstruct the data. This heavy utilisation of the other HDDs in the RAID set increases the likelihood of another HDD failure (usually a non-recoverable read error) by an order of magnitude, which sign
22:10:41 <wh1t3r4bb1t> ificantly increases the likelihood of a data failure.
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22:11:59 <joepie91> sigh
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22:12:48 <joepie91> seems the hub took a shit there
22:12:48 <Art> btw, thanks again for that abstraction
22:13:02 <joepie91> not entirely sure what happened
22:13:19 <joepie91> <wh1t3r4bb1t>Point 1: For example, when a HDD fails in a RAID 5 set, the system will rebuild the data on a spare drive that replaces the failed hard disk drive. The storage system then exercises every sector on every HDD in the RAID set to reconstruct the data. This heavy utilisation of the other HDDs in the RAID set increases the likelihood of another HDD failure (usually a non-recoverable read error) by an order of magnitude, which sign
22:13:19 <joepie91> <wh1t3r4bb1t>ificantly increases the likelihood of a data failure.
22:13:42 <joepie91> so you consider a HDD failing in 2 years instead of 3 (with backup drives), worse than an SSD failing in under a year with zero redundancy?
22:13:48 <joepie91> that's an interesting definition of negative you have there
22:14:29 <joepie91> and honestly, with the lifespan of current enterprise drives (if you're not using enterprise drives, why were you using RAID in the first place?) the full sector-by-sector copy is negligible in terms of lifespan impact
22:14:36 <joepie91> so, eh.
22:17:50 <Mrwizard> joepie91: raid 5 is somewhat inefficient, due to the fact it stresses the entire array upon rebuild
22:17:57 <Mrwizard> thus the reason i use raid 6
22:18:14 <joepie91> sure, inefficient, but nowhere near as bad as wh1t3r4bb1t is implying
22:18:16 <Mrwizard> also in the case one other drive fails upon rebuild you wont lose data
22:18:20 <Mrwizard> yeah i know
22:18:31 <Mrwizard> its only efficient on good raid controllers
22:18:40 <Mrwizard> the overhead is just storage space on the good controllers
22:18:46 <lady-3jane> you can't really use non-enterprise drives in raid... they time out of the array randomly forcing a rebuild even though the drive is there :/
22:18:59 <Mrwizard> i've managed using non-enterprise drives
22:18:59 <Mrwizard> for two years now
22:19:06 <Mrwizard> 24 hour usage
22:19:06 <lady-3jane> I'm sorry
22:19:18 <joepie91> lady-3jane: aside from the performance issues, there's a measurable difference in lifespan for consumer drives vs enterprise drives
22:19:22 <Mrwizard> its usually non-enterprise controllers that can cause these issues
22:19:35 <Mrwizard> ever since i switched to enterprise controllers
22:19:39 <joepie91> that being said, backblaze seems to do pretty well with consumer drives
22:19:40 <Mrwizard> i've had zero rebuild or failures
22:19:42 <joepie91> :P
22:19:57 <joepie91> I remember them going through all the best buys or whatever during the HDD shortage
22:19:57 <Mrwizard> the only difference is efficiency during the qa process
22:20:00 <joepie91> grabbing whatever drive they could
22:20:03 <joepie91> throughout the country
22:20:06 <Mrwizard> i talked to a seagate rep a few years back
22:20:13 <Mrwizard> yup
22:20:18 <Mrwizard> prices are still elvated
22:20:30 <joepie91> depends what you consider 'elevated'
22:20:34 <lady-3jane> that's because people would pay the new higher prices
22:20:37 <joepie91> they're lower than before the shortage, at least here
22:20:38 <Mrwizard> considering i bought 2TB drives
22:20:42 <Mrwizard> a year ago
22:20:43 <joepie91> but they could probably be lower still
22:20:44 <Mrwizard> for $60
22:20:49 <joepie91> lol
22:20:50 <Mrwizard> they are still $100~
22:20:55 <joepie91> a year ago, we paid 120 euro here
22:20:56 <Mrwizard> its pathetic
22:20:59 <Mrwizard> damn
22:21:00 <joepie91> for a 2TB HDD
22:21:00 <Mrwizard> that sucks
22:21:04 <joepie91> now we pay, say, 90
22:21:09 <Mrwizard> we could get them for $60 a pop
22:21:10 <joepie91> (yay taxes)
22:21:17 <Mrwizard> now its $120 on amazon
22:21:33 <Mrwizard> i got low power seagates to extend life for the raid array
22:21:36 <Mrwizard> i cant believe it tho
22:21:43 <Mrwizard> i got 5 doa out of 8 drives
22:22:02 <joepie91> lol
22:22:04 <lady-3jane> I buy drives based on warranty
22:22:07 <joepie91> that's painful
22:22:11 <Mrwizard> yeah i already rma'd them
22:22:13 * joepie91 always goes with WD
22:22:15 <Mrwizard> eh
22:22:18 <Mrwizard> i've had bad luck with WD
22:22:26 <lady-3jane> WD blacks are 5 year, so I buy them
22:22:27 <joepie91> my experiences with them have been very good
22:22:35 <Mrwizard> eh seagate is 3 year
22:22:35 <Mrwizard> limited
22:22:37 <joepie91> those things last for fucking ever
22:22:41 <Mrwizard> yeah
22:22:43 <joepie91> apparemntly there IS a DOA issue
22:22:46 <joepie91> but once you get a working one
22:22:50 <joepie91> it'll probably outlive you lol
22:22:52 <Mrwizard> haha
22:22:56 <Mrwizard> i got ceritifed repaired moels
22:22:59 <Mrwizard> models*
22:23:01 <joepie91> ah, yeah, that's bad
22:23:05 <joepie91> I was refering to new ones
22:23:06 <joepie91> :P
22:23:07 <Mrwizard> eh they work really nice
22:23:11 <Mrwizard> its what you get
22:23:16 <Mrwizard> when you warranty them
22:23:28 <joepie91> right
22:23:29 <Mrwizard> i'd sue them if they kept sending me doa's
22:23:41 <joepie91> anyway, I've used a WD 20GB drive for like yeeeeaaaars
22:23:45 <Mrwizard> haha
22:23:50 <joepie91> it finally broke down like, what, 2 years ago?
22:23:50 <Mrwizard> i used a quantum for 15 years
22:23:52 <Mrwizard> remember those
22:24:00 <joepie91> and not even a mechanical fail
22:24:02 <Mrwizard> 2GB
22:24:03 <joepie91> it just stopped being detected
22:24:06 <Mrwizard> hmm
22:24:09 <joepie91> decided it wasn't worth the 20GB
22:24:09 <Mrwizard> prob a controller fault
22:24:13 <joepie91> and just gave up
22:24:20 <joepie91> rather than trying to fix it
22:24:22 <Mrwizard> those controllers cant be replaced easily :/
22:24:26 <joepie91> exactly
22:24:36 <joepie91> and they're probably more expensive than a new drive
22:24:39 <joepie91> (could be)
22:24:41 <Mrwizard> yup
22:24:41 <Mrwizard> unless
22:24:48 <Mrwizard> you are a hdd specialist
22:24:54 <Mrwizard> and have all the tools
22:25:01 <joepie91> heh
22:25:18 <Mrwizard> hey do you know blackbird by any chance?
22:25:22 <joepie91> nop
22:25:47 <Mrwizard> strange
22:25:56 <Mrwizard> gatsby was getting into something a month ago around that guy
22:25:57 <Mrwizard> then suddenly
22:26:03 <lady-3jane> NP: [Audioslave - Show Me How To Live] [Audioslave] [1057kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane
22:26:06 <Mrwizard> haven't heard from him
22:26:15 <lady-3jane> turned? :D
22:26:29 * lady-3jane has no idea who these people are
22:26:29 <Mrwizard> i talked to some guys on anonops and they said he was on last friday
22:26:44 <Mrwizard> haha friends that i have working on a group project
22:26:58 <lady-3jane> you're again venturing into the No Anonymous portion of the rules for this chan :P
22:27:10 <Mrwizard> i can have anonymous friends
22:27:18 <Mrwizard> they only have nicknames
22:27:38 <Mrwizard> waiiiit this is no anonymous
22:27:43 <lady-3jane> You're being thick :P
22:27:49 <Mrwizard> O_o
22:28:28 * joepie91 points at topic
22:28:34 * Mrwizard slowly reads topic
22:29:23 <Mrwizard> Hmm I am in need of a new mentor
22:29:27 <Mrwizard> Until Gatsby returns
22:30:03 <lady-3jane> dense? dense is the right word
22:30:13 <Mrwizard> yes
22:30:19 <Mrwizard> or difficult
22:31:25 * Mrwizard puts on a straw hat
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22:35:17 <wh1t3r4bb1t> eye are so stoned right then
22:35:30 <Cryto287> ?
22:35:33 <Cryto287> Hmm?
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22:38:42 <wh1t3r4bb1t> Whoever writes upload and download script for file share gets lifetim membershif at no cost. i go slep now.
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23:01:10 <Art> hahaha
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23:09:55 <zxcvbnm> holy shit. I was just on the phone with support for 2 and a half hours
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23:14:47 <DrAway> LADY be that!
23:38:10 <zxcvbnm> exit
23:38:11 <zxcvbnm> woops
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